"Seminal spittoons".

Good phrase.

Well said, pretty much every post in this thread.

estrellas wrote:Unofficial slavery in the Gulf is quite common. They use their oil money to import women from Asia - Pakistan, Malaysia, the Philippines. The wives get to force these women to do all the housework at all hours of the day and the husbands use them for sex. The wives probably see this as a win-win because it means less time spent having to look at their husband's excess body hair.

Not just women. It's quite common for labourers to be brought in from poorer countries and to routinely have their passports removed, before giving them "jobs" that were in no way what they were promised. Dubai was built on slave labour. And of course, there are plenty of poorer countries where similar things happen, but the countries we're talking about have more than enough resources to deal with such problems, they just have an attitude that foreign residents of their country (particularly the poor ones) don't matter.

.

Well said cali...

When women tell the truth about men, they are called femi-Nazis, and scoffed at, but when religious books contain misogyny and crap about women, it's not only appreciated, it's worshiped! WHAT IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE?

For those who think the life of a female sex slave victim is glamorous:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping ... Lee_Dugard

cherries wrote:

im3rdworld wrote:hi every 1. my first post. regarding the comment of the woman, i can tell u as an ex muslim and currently still living in an ISLAMIC state,that this woman is a fucking genious. she only said this to win support of her extremley chuvanist male counterparts.muslims would do anything for sex even blow them selves up for it. so her making this statment is nothing more than to please her sex starved male population and win their support. she just guarennted herself a long and fruitful political career

hi yasir,welcome to the forum

good point that but sex starved male population

hey they blow themselves up so they can have their virgin,s and yes muslims r "sex starved". no porn nogirlfriends, masturbation is a sin(because u r killing babies) woman dont get out of the house and when they do they r covered from head to toe. u cant chose ur own wife so be happy with watever u get and although polygamy is allowed ,muslim wives r for sale. first 1 is for anywhere around 5000-10000 dollars the second would be twice the amount and so on. hey believe me when i say this the price of a muslim is a 100$ hooker (that constitutes 99.99% of the muslim population).

what does women not being able to leave the house has to do with men having sex or not?
nowadays there's the internet for porn and muslims are not all that strict though about the masturbation and girlfriend bit.
if your worried about the high price,consider you only have to pay once and after that it's just maintenance.

cherries wrote:what does women not being able to leave the house has to do with men having sex or not?

Women are essentially not allowed to participate in society and are often the property of their father before they get married. There's simply not as many opportunities for men to meet with and start a premarital or casual relationship, let alone have sex with women (which in many countries carries the penalty of being lashed, and of course there's always the menace of possible punishment at the hands of the family for a so called "honor" crime). If you look at almost any Islamic society, what do you typically see on the streets, in the schools, in the workplace? Nothing but men. Occasionally you may see some huddled figure covered head to toe, slowly drifting from place to place at a local market place. It's highly reminiscent of a dystopian, misogynist society.

nowadays there's the internet for porn

Forbidden and censored in many Muslim societies (though I guess if you're smart enough to work around it with proxies, it works, but I think that's a bit much to expect from societies where most people make less than a few dollars a day).

and muslims are not all that strict though about the masturbation and girlfriend bit.

I'm not sure about the masturbation part, but I beg to disagree about the girlfriend bit. Dating of any sort prior to marriage is very much looked down upon in most parts of the Muslim world, including in south east Asian countries.

bioeng wrote:

Women are essentially not allowed to participate in society and are often the property of their father before they get married...

i kind of knew that,it's just that getting out of the house is not the reason why people can't meet up but the reason is strict adherence to islamic law,if it would be just getting out of the house ,why not invite your man to come over.

bioeng wrote:

nowadays there's the internet for porn

Forbidden and censored in many Muslim societies (though I guess if you're smart enough to work around it with proxies, it works, but I think that's a bit much to expect from societies where most people make less than a few dollars a day)

i've stayed in malaysia which is a muslim country and internet porn is available no problem including plenty of porn cd's etc.though it's being watched secretly.
also if you do have internet,which a lot of muslims have(the few dollars a day people obviously don't)getting around with a proxy,in countries which do block these sites, isn't that hard,especially when the collective desire is there.

bioeng wrote:

and muslims are not all that strict though about the masturbation and girlfriend bit.

I'm not sure about the masturbation part, but I beg to disagree about the girlfriend bit. Dating of any sort prior to marriage is very much looked down upon in most parts of the Muslim world, including in south east Asian countries.

while there are certain rules to abide to,dating is what a lot of people do as long as you are not alone with each other it's acceptable to a certain point over there.
still there's unwanted pregnancy in which case there's a big scandal and then they have to get married,in some tragic cases the girl hides the pregnancy and abandons or sells the baby.


i don't want to generalize since all muslim countries are different.

while there are certain rules to abide to,dating is what a lot of people do as long as you are not alone with each other it's acceptable to a certain point over there.

Well, that partly answers your question about not having sex. People tend to only do that when they're alone with one another. If women generally stay home or at best are allowed to meet with men if they're "not alone", I can see why their populations may be sexually repressed.

I'm also a bit skeptical about the claims that there's any significant porn viewership in Islamic countries. It just seems awfully at odds with everything their culture preaches, and even though this is a generalization, Muslims worldwide as a whole do tend to be a lot more pious and less rebellious against religious authority, rather than Christians who are hypocritical at every turn (be it American conservative closet homosexuals or "celibate" priests molesting children or "family values" activists cheating on their wives). Not that there's anything wrong with hypocrisy. I actually encourage hypocrisy if it undermines religious values. Regardless, while I don't mean to sound like a conspiracy nut, I've always wondered whether reports with statistics of high viewership of porn in Muslim countries are exaggerated by those in the media with an agenda.

For example, I'm hesitant to gobble up anything that comes out of fox, but here it is:
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/07/12/data-shows-pakistan-googling-pornographic-material/

Here's one from the bbc as well:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6592123.stm

bioeng wrote:Well, that partly answers your question about not having sex. People tend to only do that when they're alone with one another. If women generally stay home or at best are allowed to meet with men if they're "not alone", I can see why their populations may be sexually repressed.

well of course it's not the same as in the west but many couples do take the opportunity when they can to meet in private,hence unwanted pregnancy etc.
people also get married very early,so the time when they are 'starved of sex" is relatively short, some more teenagers tend to be quite rebellious and stick less to the rules.

bioeng wrote:I'm also a bit skeptical about the claims that there's any significant porn viewership in Islamic countries. It just seems awfully at odds with everything their culture preaches, and even though this is a generalization, Muslims worldwide as a whole do tend to be a lot more pious and less rebellious against religious authority, rather than Christians who are hypocritical at every turn (be it American conservative closet homosexuals or "celibate" priests molesting children or "family values" activists cheating on their wives).

being pious in islam doesn't mean no sex,as long as it's with your wife/husband/slave.
i think this report from the bbc is probably close to the truth.

cherries wrote:people also get married very early,so the time when they are 'starved of sex" is relatively short, some more teenagers tend to be quite rebellious and stick less to the rules.

But surely early marriage, a la child bride thing, just comes about through circular reasoning: get the girls locked in with an old man asap and they're thereby "protected" from fornication or whatever.

I am really hoping that these comments were not made while looking down on Islam. Islam has strict rules yes, but they were clearly set with good intentions. Just like there are bad Christians, and Jews, there are also bad Muslims. That we all know is a fact. There are plenty of Muslim people who manipulate rule and theories in the Quran to do things that are morally wrong. There are also very kind, and caring Muslims that have nothing to do with slavery or pre-marital sex. It is not wrong to believe in sex after marriage, nor is it wrong to avoid masturbation. There are plenty of people who are against abortion, so is it wrong to be against masturbation? I know it is a little far fetched but there is a relation.

t2da2orri wrote:I am really hoping that these comments were not made while looking down on Islam. Islam has strict rules yes, but they were clearly set with good intentions. Just like there are bad Christians, and Jews, there are also bad Muslims. That we all know is a fact. There are plenty of Muslim people who manipulate rule and theories in the Quran to do things that are morally wrong. There are also very kind, and caring Muslims that have nothing to do with slavery or pre-marital sex. It is not wrong to believe in sex after marriage, nor is it wrong to avoid masturbation. There are plenty of people who are against abortion, so is it wrong to be against masturbation? I know it is a little far fetched but there is a relation.

Perhaps you could explain the relation between masturbation and abortion? I assume here you are restricting yourself to discussing male masturbation?

Onyx8 wrote:Perhaps you could explain the relation between masturbation and abortion? I assume here you are restricting yourself to discussing male masturbation?

Well I just don't know, what with the multiple-wives ladies urging the Muslim gents to have group-sex with their four wives. A bloke (unless he's a "prophet") can only do so much...

Another fly-by.

He/she has pressed all the buttons:

There are good muslims (bollocks)
They corrupt the koran (FFS)
Dont go in for pre marital sex (Another fairy story)
Abortion and mastubation (WTF)

Oeditor wrote:

Onyx8 wrote:Perhaps you could explain the relation between masturbation and abortion? I assume here you are restricting yourself to discussing male masturbation?

Well I just don't know, what with the multiple-wives ladies urging the Muslim gents to have group-sex with their four wives. A bloke (unless he's a "prophet") can only do so much...

actually group sex is another no no in islam,just saying

t2da2orri wrote:It is not wrong to believe in sex after marriage, nor is it wrong to avoid masturbation.

what's right about it?

why not have sex before marriage and what's wrong with masturbation,it's excellent for stress relieve

cherries wrote: actually group sex is another no no in islam,just saying

Not among Malaysiam polygamy-praising women, it says here: http://www.rationalskepticism.org/islam/malaysian-polygamy-club-encourages-group-sex-t26312.html I was going to post a link to the news article cited, but it's gone dead - I wonder why? An alternative source here http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5j04d7sjDSsUBZkYNQZp6G9-FesZA?docId=CNG.14aedb15885aaac4cb5e428231bbfdcb.11 says

Malaysian polygamy club 'encourages group sex'
(AFP) – Oct 14, 2011
KUALA LUMPUR — An "Obedient Wife Club" known in Malaysia for its controversial views has published a book urging men in polygamous Muslim marriages to have group sex with their wives, a report said Friday.

However, the Malaysian government confirms what you say, Paula, because they've banned the book. http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gczGjcFJ3Fxyz5yKyUM6lLDmDV7Q?docId=CNG.7962973a74cd76173780483048aa5a5b.191 Evidently written by schismatics!

Oeditor wrote: cherries wrote: actually group sex is another no no in islam,just saying

Not among Malaysiam polygamy-praising women, it says here: http://www.rationalskepticism.org/islam ... 26312.html I was going to post a link to the news article cited, but it's gone dead - I wonder why? An alternative source here http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... 1bbfdcb.11 says

wow,i'm impressed well still they'd be hard pressed to find this to be condoned in any of the hadiths or the quran,if it would be i can't imagine that it wouldn't have been acted upon

Calilasseia wrote:It's nothing more than a disgusting attempt to confer an entirely specious "legitimacy", upon the desire of powerful men to stick their wicks where they please without any strings attached. It's a blatant attempt to sanctify rutting, a means of giving whoever happens to be the big cheese of the moment licence to use women as little more than seminal spittoons, without any obligations with respect to provision for her needs, or to cultivate a proper, loving relationship. Once again, the diseased vision of women as nothing more than pieces of sex-meat to be bought, sold and chewed at leisure, endemic within this verminous piece of mythological excrement, is utterly revolting to anyone who truly values women as human beings.

This kind of stuff spews in such a facile manner from some people that I wonder if it goes through any brain matter first.

I freely admit to wanting to stick my wick where I please, sometimes with no strings attached. I don't make any apology for it. It's fun and even healthful. I don't know how powerful I am, though I think I probably have more power than almost all men in Islamic societies, and I certainly have enough power to do quite a lot of wick-stickage.

It's really quite easy. One reason that it's easy is that I live in a society with a higher status of women and sexual equality, imperfect as it is, but at least relatively better than any Islamic society. When women are in positions of power, rather amazing things happen, including their discovery that they like it too. Of course, not all women are up for casual hookups and sex, but neither are all men, and if anything, there are more women than men who are. At least, there are plenty for me. I like that and, as I say, I make no apologies for it, because they like it too, and they like it quite a lot.

Perhaps you could convince me of something. Perhaps Paula could help, seeing as she's described Islamic women as being trained from birth to please men. In what way should I, or indeed any man, see a woman with half a clitoris, who packs her vagina with cotton to keep it dry and who wears something like a black-spraypainted burlap sack, as some sort of über-desirable sexual ideal? I challenge you.

And while you're at it, perhaps you can explain why you think that buying and selling women as sex toys is also desirable to the wick-sticking crowd, of which I am a member. As far as I can tell, doing this would be particularly humiliating, meaning that one is not sufficiently attractive or does not have sufficient social skills to find women who want sex. Perhaps some men like it, but it is far from universal.

Then there's this:

licence to use women as little more than seminal spittoons, without any obligations with respect to provision for her needs, or to cultivate a proper, loving relationship.

Where the fuck did this come from? The 1950s and the ideal of traditional marriage? Look, even the 1950s weren't the 1950s.

There are oodles of women who want to provide for their own needs, and many can even manage it. They have a right to do so where I live. They have a right to consider themselves free to do anything a man might do, and that includes setting the parameters for the relationships they want. Some even consider it presumptuous and patronizing for men to assume that they require a man to provide for their needs. Of course, many women are restricted in their choices by sexism, but it is perfectly reasonable to want to eliminate sexism rather than replace it with just another stereotype of women.

You're entitled to find this "disgusting" if you want. You're entitled to believe that men and women should conduct relationships according to obligation, not even simply according to consensual agreements between individuals but as a general template. You're entitled to have your opinion about what constitutes a "proper, loving relationship." You're entitled to think that anything else involves a "verminous piece of mythological excrement."

What you are not entitled to do, at least plausibly, is conclude that these decisions put you in the position of declaring that you are speaking for those who "truly values women as human beings." Nor are you in a position to generalize about wick-stickers.

Your prejudices are clearly more in line with Western values, especially traditional Christian values, than they are with Islamic values. They are also clearly better, in some sense. Involuntary slavery is, of course, one of the most horrible imaginable conditions. I'm not even going to play moral relativism with it; I agree that it's terrible.

Still, your prejudices are cut out of the same cloth. You have a clear idea of what constitutes a "proper, loving relationship," and everything else disgusts you. A world run by your lights, prescriptively and proscriptively, would be better than a world run by Islamic lights. It still wouldn't be good.

This is why a lot of people want to get rid of restrictions on women's thoughts, choices, and behaviors, or at least the ones that aren't also applied to men. One result of this is that women are free to choose something other than your "proper, loving relationship," at least at times and in certain contexts. They are entitled, for example, to have flings on holiday or go to swing clubs or pick up guys in bars (or allow themselves to be picked up), and they probably understand how deep and healthful these can be.