MattHunX wrote:

Behold:

[Reveal] Spoiler:

Skyrim.esm
Update.esm
Dawnguard.esm
HearthFires.esm
Dragonborn.esm
Lanterns Of Skyrim - All In One - Main.esm
Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch.esp
ApachiiHair.esm
ClimatesOfTamriel.esm
Cutting Room Floor.esp
Modern Brawl Bug Fix.esp
HarvestOverhaul_Redone_Creatures.esp
timescale6.esp
50 More Perk Points.esp
Thief skills rebalance for Ordinator.esp
DeadlyCombat.esp
iNeed.esp
iNeed - Extended.esp
Realistic Lighting Overhaul - Major City Interiors.esp
RealisticWaterTwo.esp
p_vegetation_overhaul.esp
Realistic Lighting Overhaul - Minor Cities and Town Interiors.esp
Realistic Lighting Overhaul - Major City Exteriors.esp
Ordinator - Perks of Skyrim.esp
HarvestOverhaul_Redone.esp
DeadlyCombat_Ordinator_Patch.esp
Improved Eyes Skyrim.esp
Improved Eyes Skyrim - Serana.esp
Relationship Dialogue Overhaul.esp
Character Creation Overhaul.esp
CCO - Diverse Races And Genders.esp
CCO - Dynamic Skill Progression.esp
CCO - Oblivion Carry Weights.esp
Wildcat - Combat of Skyrim.esp
RealisticWaterTwo - iNeed.esp
Realistic-Voice.esp
AnotherSortingMod_2017-SSE.esp
WeightOV - Balance - MERGED.esp
Betterfoodeffects.esp
SimplyBiggerTreesSE.esp
Realistic Lighting Overhaul - Dawnguard Interiors.esp
Realistic Lighting Overhaul - Dungeons.esp
more idle markers.esp
Populated Cities Towns Villages Legendary.esp
SMIM-ShackRoofFixes.esp
Diverse Horses SE.esp
SexLab-AmorousAdventures.esp
ImmersiveWeaponsCrafting.esp
CCO - Permanent Birthsigns.esp
SparklesSE.esp
dD - Realistic Ragdoll Force - Realistic.esp
WeaponWeightsReduced.esp
FollowerWander2.esp
SL99VanillaFollowersAI.esp
Simple Two-Handed Rebalance.esp
RealisticSpeedMovementWalkingSE.esp
WetandCold.esp
LeveledItemsLevelWithYou.esp
RichMerchantsSkyrim_x2.esp
Brighter toggleable Candlelight and Torches.esp
Chesko_WearableLantern.esp
Whistle.esp
attack commitment movement speed fluid 3.esp
Ultimate Dodge Mod.esp
ChargeCostZero.esp
The Paarthurnax Dilemma.esp
Realistic AI Detection SE - Medium Interior, Medium Exterior.esp
SMIM-FarmhouseFlickeringFix.esp
SMIM-ShackRoofFixesDragonborn.esp
SMIM-FurnitureChestSnowFix.esp
FNIS.esp
FlowerGirls SE.esp
FlowerGirls SE - Amorous Patch.esp
XPMSSE.esp
ClimatesOfTamriel-Nights-L3.esp
Realistic Lighting Overhaul - Weathers.esp
Realistic Lighting Overhaul - Dawnguard Weathers.esp
Better Horses 3.0.esp
RealRainSECoT.esp

The Mod Manager installation makes everything so fucking easy. I followed a tutorial on how to manually clean mods, using LOOT. Everything works like a fucking charm, without any crashes.

Nice. I'll have to look into some of those. I've changed computer and haven't played Skyrim for months, but I periodically come back to it, and I'm sure I'll do so again. Anyway, here's my load order from the last time I played (exported from LOOT of course):

This has a lot of potential, a SimAnt type game for the 2010s:



I've tried out the demo and exhausted the sample levels. It plays a lot like Dungeon Keeper so far.

Website with downloadable demo: http://www.eotugame.com/

Matthew Shute wrote:

MattHunX wrote:

Behold:

[Reveal] Spoiler:

Skyrim.esm
Update.esm
Dawnguard.esm
HearthFires.esm
Dragonborn.esm
Lanterns Of Skyrim - All In One - Main.esm
Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch.esp
ApachiiHair.esm
ClimatesOfTamriel.esm
Cutting Room Floor.esp
Modern Brawl Bug Fix.esp
HarvestOverhaul_Redone_Creatures.esp
timescale6.esp
50 More Perk Points.esp
Thief skills rebalance for Ordinator.esp
DeadlyCombat.esp
iNeed.esp
iNeed - Extended.esp
Realistic Lighting Overhaul - Major City Interiors.esp
RealisticWaterTwo.esp
p_vegetation_overhaul.esp
Realistic Lighting Overhaul - Minor Cities and Town Interiors.esp
Realistic Lighting Overhaul - Major City Exteriors.esp
Ordinator - Perks of Skyrim.esp
HarvestOverhaul_Redone.esp
DeadlyCombat_Ordinator_Patch.esp
Improved Eyes Skyrim.esp
Improved Eyes Skyrim - Serana.esp
Relationship Dialogue Overhaul.esp
Character Creation Overhaul.esp
CCO - Diverse Races And Genders.esp
CCO - Dynamic Skill Progression.esp
CCO - Oblivion Carry Weights.esp
Wildcat - Combat of Skyrim.esp
RealisticWaterTwo - iNeed.esp
Realistic-Voice.esp
AnotherSortingMod_2017-SSE.esp
WeightOV - Balance - MERGED.esp
Betterfoodeffects.esp
SimplyBiggerTreesSE.esp
Realistic Lighting Overhaul - Dawnguard Interiors.esp
Realistic Lighting Overhaul - Dungeons.esp
more idle markers.esp
Populated Cities Towns Villages Legendary.esp
SMIM-ShackRoofFixes.esp
Diverse Horses SE.esp
SexLab-AmorousAdventures.esp
ImmersiveWeaponsCrafting.esp
CCO - Permanent Birthsigns.esp
SparklesSE.esp
dD - Realistic Ragdoll Force - Realistic.esp
WeaponWeightsReduced.esp
FollowerWander2.esp
SL99VanillaFollowersAI.esp
Simple Two-Handed Rebalance.esp
RealisticSpeedMovementWalkingSE.esp
WetandCold.esp
LeveledItemsLevelWithYou.esp
RichMerchantsSkyrim_x2.esp
Brighter toggleable Candlelight and Torches.esp
Chesko_WearableLantern.esp
Whistle.esp
attack commitment movement speed fluid 3.esp
Ultimate Dodge Mod.esp
ChargeCostZero.esp
The Paarthurnax Dilemma.esp
Realistic AI Detection SE - Medium Interior, Medium Exterior.esp
SMIM-FarmhouseFlickeringFix.esp
SMIM-ShackRoofFixesDragonborn.esp
SMIM-FurnitureChestSnowFix.esp
FNIS.esp
FlowerGirls SE.esp
FlowerGirls SE - Amorous Patch.esp
XPMSSE.esp
ClimatesOfTamriel-Nights-L3.esp
Realistic Lighting Overhaul - Weathers.esp
Realistic Lighting Overhaul - Dawnguard Weathers.esp
Better Horses 3.0.esp
RealRainSECoT.esp

The Mod Manager installation makes everything so fucking easy. I followed a tutorial on how to manually clean mods, using LOOT. Everything works like a fucking charm, without any crashes.

Nice. I'll have to look into some of those. I've changed computer and haven't played Skyrim for months, but I periodically come back to it, and I'm sure I'll do so again. Anyway, here's my load order from the last time I played (exported from LOOT of course):

[Reveal] Spoiler:

0 Skyrim.esm
1 Update.esm
2 Unofficial Skyrim Patch.esp
3 Dawnguard.esm
4 Unofficial Dawnguard Patch.esp
5 HearthFires.esm
6 Unofficial Hearthfire Patch.esp
7 Dragonborn.esm
8 Unofficial Dragonborn Patch.esp
9 Falskaar.esm
10 360WalkandRunPlus-RunBackwardSpeedAdjust.esp
11 Brawl Bugs CE.esp
12 Character Creation Overhaul.esp
13 CCO - Diverse Races And Genders.esp
14 CCO - Dynamic Skill Progression.esp
15 CCO - Oblivion Carry Weights.esp
16 Convenient Horses.esp
17 DescaledUniques.esp
18 BetterQuestObjectives-Hearthfire.esp
19 FixCombatMusic.esp
20 FISS.esp
21 Guard Dialogue Overhaul.esp
22 ImmersiveFP.esp
23 iHUD.esp
24 Immersive Dragonborn.esp
25 Chesko_LoreBasedLoadingScreens.esp
26 Predator Vision.esp
27 3DNPC.esp
28 Helgen Reborn.esp
29 Civil War Overhaul.esp
30 BetterQuestObjectives.esp
31 Destroy the Thieves Guild.esp
32 MjollUncapped.esp
33 AmazingFollowerTweaks.esp
34 Cloaks.esp
35 BetterQuestObjectives-Dawnguard.esp
36 BetterQuestObjectives-AFTPatch.esp
37 RealisticNeedsandDiseases.esp
38 Skyrim Shadow Striping Fix.esp
39 1nivWICCloaks.esp
40 1nivWICSkyCloaksPatch.esp
41 PumpingIron.esp
42 RND_Dawnguard-Patch.esp
43 RND_Dragonborn-Patch.esp
44 RND_USKP-Patch.esp
45 SkyUI.esp
46 TakeNotes.esp
47 CCO - Permanent Birthsigns.esp
48 Chesko_Frostfall.esp
49 RND_HearthFires-Patch.esp
50 Immersive Travelers.esp
51 Immersive Patrols.esp
52 DragonCombatOverhaulDragonborn.esp
53 The Paarthurnax Dilemma.esp
54 HoldBorderBanners.esp
55 Immersive Dawnguard.esp
56 Run For Your Lives.esp
57 Immersive Brigands.esp
58 RGMsAlchemistsCompendium.esp
59 dovahkiinrelax.esp
60 RND_AnimalLoot.esp
61 BetterQuestObjectives-PaarDilemmaPatch.esp
62 DeadlyDragons.esp
63 Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp
64 BetterQuestObjectives-AlternateStartPatch.esp

Will check some of those mods, right now.

Could finally start playing Nier Automata.

Barely got to the Resistance Base Leader and started doing some side-missions. Already find this 9S boy annoying. And the writing of 2B is either inconsistent or it actually changes according to my conversation choices.

Right from the start she's against emotions, but then she gets all worried about this guy. Then, when they're back at the HQ and I'm adjusting the settings with this 9S talking me through them, I have the option to make 2B say she finds his voice soothing.

After that, when we leave the Resistance Base and the 06 Operator contacts us, 2B dismisses feelings, again and the operator says that's so like her. Well, I hope this is because I chose not to give an emotional response, earlier. Otherwise, it's annoyingly inconsistent writing.

MattHunX wrote:

willhud9 wrote:#useyourimagination #itsafantasygame

Uh...

Are you responding to a different post, or is that really supposed to be some sort of defense? Because using my imagination and "it's a fantasy game" has absolutely zero to do with the issue and therefore isn't even an argument. This wasn't an issue, before they screwed it up with their own DLC. Even back in Oblivion, a vampire noble, living in the city, didn't reveal his true nature until provoked in a quest, then his eyes and face switched. Which was the case with all secret vampires in Skyrim, as well. You got to experience the surprise in the side-stories and lore, without it being ruined and spoiled by such forgotten bugs. And Bethesda could have easily made a fix to the less than handful of characters this bug (caused by Dawnguard) affects, especially since they had 2 major DLCs, since. So they had plenty of time. And they had to have heard about it. So they cannot claim ignorance as an excuse for not fixing it. Modders already fixed it, for OldRim, as far as I can tell from the Nexus site. They have to port the mod to the Special Edition. They have to fix Bethesda's mess, over and over again.

1) In Oblivion you could still tell if someone was a vampire. This secret vampire thing is not really a big deal.

2) It is not story-ruining at all since there aren't many secret vampires in skyrim. There are a few vampires that are incredibly minor npcs that you hardly have to deal with and you in fact kill the main one (i.e. the vampire at the lumber mill in Falkreath Hold) as a minor part of the Dark Brotherhood quest chain.

3) One of my playthroughs my vampire lord goes out in public, and engages people. I simply pretend, i.e. use my imagination, that he doesn't have glowing eyes. Works wonders.

Lord have mercy I wonder how some of you guys would have fared with table top rpgs. Probably would have needed models and miniatures for everything. Probably would have needed detailed maps drawn with hyper-detail for the realistic combat movement. You're probably someone I would not want in my DnD or Palladium groups for that very reason.

willhud9 wrote:

MattHunX wrote:

willhud9 wrote:#useyourimagination #itsafantasygame

Uh...

Are you responding to a different post, or is that really supposed to be some sort of defense? Because using my imagination and "it's a fantasy game" has absolutely zero to do with the issue and therefore isn't even an argument. This wasn't an issue, before they screwed it up with their own DLC. Even back in Oblivion, a vampire noble, living in the city, didn't reveal his true nature until provoked in a quest, then his eyes and face switched. Which was the case with all secret vampires in Skyrim, as well. You got to experience the surprise in the side-stories and lore, without it being ruined and spoiled by such forgotten bugs. And Bethesda could have easily made a fix to the less than handful of characters this bug (caused by Dawnguard) affects, especially since they had 2 major DLCs, since. So they had plenty of time. And they had to have heard about it. So they cannot claim ignorance as an excuse for not fixing it. Modders already fixed it, for OldRim, as far as I can tell from the Nexus site. They have to port the mod to the Special Edition. They have to fix Bethesda's mess, over and over again.

1) In Oblivion you could still tell if someone was a vampire. This secret vampire thing is not really a big deal.

2) It is not story-ruining at all since there aren't many secret vampires in skyrim. There are a few vampires that are incredibly minor npcs that you hardly have to deal with and you in fact kill the main one (i.e. the vampire at the lumber mill in Falkreath Hold) as a minor part of the Dark Brotherhood quest chain.

3) One of my playthroughs my vampire lord goes out in public, and engages people. I simply pretend, i.e. use my imagination, that he doesn't have glowing eyes. Works wonders.

Lord have mercy I wonder how some of you guys would have fared with table top rpgs. Probably would have needed models and miniatures for everything. Probably would have needed detailed maps drawn with hyper-detail for the realistic combat movement. You're probably someone I would not want in my DnD or Palladium groups for that very reason.

That's Table-Top RPG. TABLE. TOP. Not a video-game. You cannot equate elements of the two and realistically expect people to lower their standards and be satisfied with mistakes that ruin their immersion. Why? Because with games played on a table-top you didn't need to worry about such details, nor were they necessary. A video-game, especially in this age, after so many years of work, is different.

Use my imagination to pretend the person I'm talking to is not a vampire. It would be fine if I'd find out through the side-quest they're involved in. Have them be revealed, along with their true face, THEN. But, this? It's incredibly immersion-breaking that I can clearly see them, while other NPCs just walk and talk like nothing is wrong. And it's something Bethesda could've easily fixed. But, no. Just pretend it's not an immersion, gaming-experience and story-ruining glitch.

Just relax, everyone! Pretend we're playing with special chess-pieces or some shit, on a good old-fashioned table-top. (Except we're fucking not!) We don't need to worry about something ruining the surprises in the story. And it's just a small side-quest, anyway. It's not like there are other characters (in far more important roles) within our little game-world who'll also be exposed. It won't ruin the story. No. Just pretend that piece over there has the face of a commoner. And that other one, there? Yeah, she's the Court Wizard for the ruler of the entire fucking place, but it won't ruin the part of the story. Why don't we just tag every piece, paint all the vamps red, so we'll know right away who's really one. What's the point of them hiding in plain sight, anyway, when we can spoil the surprise for everyone who walks up to them to have a conversation.

And this is your actual answer? Just use my imagination to pretend the issue isn't there, in my face. Wow. Wow! I hope you never get into game-development with such lazy-ass attitude. And non-solutions. And the way you keep defending such developers is equally disgusting. Your standards only go as high as a table-top, apparently. Take that literally or figuratively.

MattHunX wrote:

willhud9 wrote:

MattHunX wrote:

willhud9 wrote:#useyourimagination #itsafantasygame

Uh...

Are you responding to a different post, or is that really supposed to be some sort of defense? Because using my imagination and "it's a fantasy game" has absolutely zero to do with the issue and therefore isn't even an argument. This wasn't an issue, before they screwed it up with their own DLC. Even back in Oblivion, a vampire noble, living in the city, didn't reveal his true nature until provoked in a quest, then his eyes and face switched. Which was the case with all secret vampires in Skyrim, as well. You got to experience the surprise in the side-stories and lore, without it being ruined and spoiled by such forgotten bugs. And Bethesda could have easily made a fix to the less than handful of characters this bug (caused by Dawnguard) affects, especially since they had 2 major DLCs, since. So they had plenty of time. And they had to have heard about it. So they cannot claim ignorance as an excuse for not fixing it. Modders already fixed it, for OldRim, as far as I can tell from the Nexus site. They have to port the mod to the Special Edition. They have to fix Bethesda's mess, over and over again.

1) In Oblivion you could still tell if someone was a vampire. This secret vampire thing is not really a big deal.

2) It is not story-ruining at all since there aren't many secret vampires in skyrim. There are a few vampires that are incredibly minor npcs that you hardly have to deal with and you in fact kill the main one (i.e. the vampire at the lumber mill in Falkreath Hold) as a minor part of the Dark Brotherhood quest chain.

3) One of my playthroughs my vampire lord goes out in public, and engages people. I simply pretend, i.e. use my imagination, that he doesn't have glowing eyes. Works wonders.

Lord have mercy I wonder how some of you guys would have fared with table top rpgs. Probably would have needed models and miniatures for everything. Probably would have needed detailed maps drawn with hyper-detail for the realistic combat movement. You're probably someone I would not want in my DnD or Palladium groups for that very reason.

That's Table-Top RPG. TABLE. TOP. Not a video-game. You cannot equate elements of the two and realistically expect people to lower their standards and be satisfied with mistakes that ruin their immersion.

Sure you can. Rpgs. Skyrim is a role-playing game. The entirety of the Elder Scrolls series is a roleplaying game. The point of the game is to roleplay.

Why? Because with games played on a table-top you didn't need to worry about such details, nor were they necessary. A video-game, especially in this age, after so many years of work, is different.

Nope. Again, Skyrim is an rpg. The only detail that is necessary is character customization and a story that allows you to play a role. Much like in older computer rpgs details like character models, etc. were appreciated but not needed. You could still enjoy the game without them because that is not what made computer rpgs great.

The Might and Magic series doesn't have much in the way of graphics, character models, etc. but by simply using your imagination and by actually suspending disbelief (I know, fucking hard concepts in this day and age where people demand and expect movie like realism in their video games) you could easily imagine placing your character in that environment.

Use my imagination to pretend the person I'm talking to is not a vampire.

Yeah. It's pretty fucking easy. Instead of moaning about it on the internet.

It would be fine if I'd find out through the side-quest they're involved in. Have them be revealed, along with their true face, THEN. But, this? It's incredibly immersion-breaking that I can clearly see them,

Vampires only have one face. Again your concept of secret vampire is not existent. In Oblivion, Vampires had red eyes and withered faces. As far as I know, there was only one quest chain where you infiltrated a cult of vampires in Oblivion and even then they weren't secret. It was pretty easy to tell a vampire in that game, but mods made it more realistic. Skyrim is no different.

while other NPCs just walk and talk like nothing is wrong.

If the NPC's around the character are unsuspecting that the character is a vampire than they are better at using their imagination than you are. Congratulations Matt, you've been out imagined by a computer code.

And it's something Bethesda could've easily fixed. But, no. Just pretend it's not an immersion, gaming-experience and story-ruining glitch.

A) It is only immersion breaking if you are hyper-focused on things like that. Thankfully that tends to not be the focus of rpgs, as for b) and c) those are just objectively not true. Skyrim is again an rpg and plays like an rpg. Playing it any other way is contrary to its intended experience design. Does the vampire being an obvious vampire affect your ability to roleplay? Not really, unless you are a vampire hunter, but then a vampire hunter would be able to tell a vampire easily and kill it without mercy. And it doesn't ruin the story as character models have nothing to do with the story. Your protests are weak, m8.

Finally, sure Bethesda probably could've easily fixed it, and spent money to do so. Or they know that the people who love the game can easily mod the game and do it for them, saving the company money and time. Prudent business 101, Matt. Meanwhile the folks like me who don't give a damn whether a character has glowing red eyes don't have to worry about downloading a simple mod just to enjoy the game, but if its such a bee in your bonnet well Skyrim fans have your back.

Just relax, everyone! Pretend we're playing with special chess-pieces or some shit, on a good old-fashioned table-top. (Except we're fucking not!) We don't need to worry about something ruining the surprises in the story.

Finding out he is a vampire isn't really much of a surprise. The reveal that he is a vampire doesn't add much to the story, nor does it change any grand design of the flow of any campaign. In fact, you can go to their shed out back before even seeing them during the day and realize oh shit there is human bones and a corpse and lots of blood here. This is definite signs of vampirism and bam, you meet him and its obvious he and his wife are vampires.

And it's just a small side-quest, anyway. It's not like there are other characters (in far more important roles) within our little game-world who'll also be exposed. It won't ruin the story. No. Just pretend that piece over there has the face of a commoner. And that other one, there? Yeah, she's the Court Wizard for the ruler of the entire fucking place, but it won't ruin the part of the story. Why don't we just tag every piece, paint all the vamps red, so we'll know right away who's really one. What's the point of them hiding in plain sight, anyway, when we can spoil the surprise for everyone who walks up to them to have a conversation.

A Court wizard with glowing red eyes? Sure, could mean vampirism. Could also mean arcane power and knowledge. Since no one seems to give her any mind, you can easily not jump to that conclusion that you made if you took the time to actually roleplay.

And this is your actual answer? Just use my imagination to pretend the issue isn't there, in my face. Wow. Wow! I hope you never get into game-development with such lazy-ass attitude. And non-solutions. And the way you keep defending such developers is equally disgusting. Your standards only go as high as a table-top, apparently. Take that literally or figuratively.

[/quote]

No, I'm not defending such developers. I'm critiquing the childish bleats of a qq-er who seems to find something to go on long-winded rants on about games that many people enjoy. Time and time again you write a rant about a movie, tvshow, or video game in which if it doesn't meet your standard its awful, or poorly designed, or blah blah blah.

The sword cuts both ways Matt. Instead of channeling your hipster-like rage on a forum perhaps you should get into game-development and actually fix the issues you have yourself? I'm merely saying it is 100% possible to completely enjoy the game without having to rely on mods and that a character model is not going to detract from my enjoyment of a game that for the most part satisfies the roleplaying element of an rpg.

willhud9 wrote:Vampires only have one face.

And that's where your entire argument falls apart, dear Will. You're wrong. They have two models, actually. In Oblivion, there was a noble man living in the main city of the game, where you started from, who looked normal, like the rest of the citizens, until a side-quest, where you uncovered his secret and WHEN you did and he attacked you, his eyes (can't remember his face), but his eyes actually changed. Look it up! And it was the same for all hidden vampires in Skyrim, but the Dawnguard DLC, as reported by many, caused certain named NPCs, like Hert (at the saw-mill) and others to appear with their vampire face and eyes. Something modders actually managed to fix in the old edition, but not for the Special Edition.

So, thanks for playing, Will!

You just showed you didn't even have a full understanding of my issue with the game and yet you had the audacity to try and come with your pathetic non-solution, which boils down to "role-play a spastic derp and don't worry about glitches, because the NPCs won't notice them, either, because of scripting or whatever. It's an RPG, after all. No need to raise standards, since D&D, or anything. Just imagine that all these advances in graphics that are supposed to enhance story-telling and immersion are unimportant."

And I did know about the human bones in the shed, which are a red-flag, but they can be from beasts, as well as vampires, so one cannot automatically jump to the conclusion that both npcs at the mill are vamps, well...unless a glitch shows their face that is.

willhud9 wrote:I'm merely saying it is 100% possible to completely enjoy the game without having to rely on mods and that a character model is not going to detract from my enjoyment of a game that for the most part satisfies the roleplaying element of an rpg.

Psst...that's because you have low standards, Will.

Just because you're perfectly satisfied with vanilla and easily excuse developer over-sight and lack of effort, doesn't mean the game cannot be significantly improved, in all of its aspects, with a little extra touch. Or not so little.

The Interesting NPCs mod is a good example of "not so little". The amount of quality content the makers added to the game is amazing. I can't remember exactly how big the mod is (I seem to recall it taking longer to download than the game itself), but it's enormous. All the added characters (even associated multi-stage quests and items with many of them) blend seamlessly with the vanilla game and add a lot more life and possibilities to go exploring. Falskaar is another huge addition, comparable to one of the official expansions like Dragonborn, in that it adds a whole new island to explore. Modding isn't a matter of need, it's often simply about making the game more and better. I made a lot of my own mods for Morrowind and Oblivion, found with Skyrim that most changes or additions I wanted had already been made by the clever people who upload to nexusmods.com.

I agree with parts of what both of you are saying. I mean, you can enjoy vanilla; it's just that, once you've tweaked nearly every aspect of the game to satisfaction, made everything more immersive and added a ton of new content, it's unlikely you're going to want to go back to it.

Every single game can be improved after release. Sure, some more than others. It's much easier to do it once the game is finished. But a game is like a book or a movie. It's a person, or a team's vision. You can not like some parts of a game, just like you can not like a part of a book (the Dark Tower's ending for example) or a movie. That doesn't mean the game is good or bad. it's just a story someone wants to tell.
The only difference with games is, sometimes you can change it to add things you like and remove/change things you don't. It doesn't necessarily make it better, just suits your expectations and tastes better.

The Civil War Overhaul mod makes Skyrim's civil war more like what Bethesda had in mind for it originally. The devs just ran out of time and couldn't execute their vision fully. In the vanilla game, as it is now, you can pick a side, do some quests and fight some battles for that side, and whichever side you chose to follow will win the war. That's it. Yet the civil war was originally going to be this dynamic thing which is happening irrespective of your involvement. You'd be able to push the war in one direction or the other and lead one side to victory, but it's also possible that your chosen side ends up losing the war.

Well, that's what this mod does. Your character is no longer the centre of the universe; the civil war isn't waiting around for you to decide which side wins. You can choose a side, neglect the war, and then find that you're in a world of trouble because the opposing side took control of Skyrim, and now you're considered a criminal in every town you visit (you can get around this by disguising yourself as a soldier of whichever side controls that town!). I'd consider this a "better" approximation of what Bethesda had set out to do in the first place.

Matthew Shute wrote:The Interesting NPCs mod is a good example of "not so little". The amount of quality content the makers added to the game is amazing. I can't remember exactly how big the mod is (I seem to recall it taking longer to download than the game itself), but it's enormous. All the added characters (even associated multi-stage quests and items with many of them) blend seamlessly with the vanilla game and add a lot more life and possibilities to go exploring. Falskaar is another huge addition, comparable to one of the official expansions like Dragonborn, in that it adds a whole new island to explore. Modding isn't a matter of need, it's often simply about making the game more and better. I made a lot of my own mods for Morrowind and Oblivion, found with Skyrim that most changes or additions I wanted had already been made by the clever people who upload to nexusmods.com.

I agree with parts of what both of you are saying. I mean, you can enjoy vanilla; it's just that, once you've tweaked nearly every aspect of the game to satisfaction, made everything more immersive and added a ton of new content, it's unlikely you're going to want to go back to it.

BTW

I switched to Smilodon from WildCat. It's by the same modder. An improved WildCat, with much less delay in the scripting and whatever, but without injuries.

Also, I started using the new Skyrim Skill Uncapper that lets me level skills past a 100, but if I edit the .ini to suit my needs and to not be OP, I can make it so that it doesn't give my attacks and stats a boost past a 100, but I can keep leveling my main skills without having to resort to 1) leveling skills I don't want, to role-play better, which was the purpose of the added Legendary reset by Bethesda 2) relying on said screwed up Legendary skill reset that also takes away all perks I unlocked, which severely weakens the player-character (as reported by users). Bethesda could've easily made it so that one could level skills past 100, slower and slower and fucking slower or just make it so that the Legendary reset would retain perks, but no. Again, they weren't thinking and they actually ended up screwing up the very thing they wanted to fix.

Also, I started using Sturdy Dragons and it's Hardcore plugin, in conjunction with Smilodon's damage reduction to large targets by 3/4 to make Dragon fights last longer. I tried out Enhanced Mighty Dragons V4 , which gives Dragons shouts to use against you, but I got quickly tired off being blown across the field by their Unrelenting Force. Even with the Ultimate Dodge mod it would be a bitch to avoid those. I might return to the mod some day, when it's more balance. Dragon with it, like to spam Unrelenting Force quite a bit. You'll just get smacked against the cliff-side, if you're lucky and get back up with a good blow to your HP. If you're unlucky, then you can be thrown straight off a cliff and it's not-so-happy landings.

Started a new game on Skyrim with a total different set of mods, including the one mentionned here earlier, Civil War. As a result, I can't play the game any more because I get attacked by guards as soon as I get to Whiterun. Attacked and killed, without any provocation. I don't understand what happens, as some guards attack, others don't.

aban57 wrote:Started a new game on Skyrim with a total different set of mods, including the one mentionned here earlier, Civil War. As a result, I can't play the game any more because I get attacked by guards as soon as I get to Whiterun. Attacked and killed, without any provocation. I don't understand what happens, as some guards attack, others don't.

Any conflicting mods? Load order that might overwrite certain AI behavior?

aban57 wrote:Started a new game on Skyrim with a total different set of mods, including the one mentionned here earlier, Civil War. As a result, I can't play the game any more because I get attacked by guards as soon as I get to Whiterun. Attacked and killed, without any provocation. I don't understand what happens, as some guards attack, others don't.

Weird, I've never encountered this. I'd advise uninstalling the new batch you just installed (apart from purely graphical mods/mods that don't use any scripts - they shouldn't cause you an issue) and see if this still happens (new game). Assuming that it doesn't happen, you can add the mods you want again, one at a time until you identify whichever one is causing problems. A quicker way to identify the culprit might be to search to see if anyone else has encountered the same issue/bug. Also use LOOT to automatically sort your load order, as this can eliminate a lot of load order problems. LOOT is free, quick and pretty straightforward to use. It'll also tell you if you have any mods that need "cleaning" (a tutorial for cleaning your mods here). You can even clean the master files (tutorial here).

Hopefully you'll have your old saves from before you added the new mods. If worse comes to worst, you can carry on from an old save using your old load order.

BTW, if some errant script is giving you a one-off bounty, which causing the guards to attack you, you can follow these steps to remove the bounty, which should make the guards no longer hostile.

Seconding LOOT. If you use more than a handful of mods, it helps find things broken by mods a lot faster than one by one trial and error method. Just read the instructions carefully.

Also, for those who don't want to pick a side: Civil War Neutrality

Mwahaha! That CWN modder guy also made this: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/79139?

thirsting wrote:Mwahaha! That CWN modder guy also made this: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/79139?

Me(n)tal.

When I'm low on armor or could use more, I often think about having a voice-clip of Donald Sutherland's character, Oddball, from Kelly's Heroes going "You could probably use some armor!"

I probably have the vaguest notion of what stats actually do of everyone here. I mostly wing it to be honest.