I wrote this for my church and because of prompting from another member I decided to post it here for comment. Please be respectful and courteous to each other and I will be courteous and respectful to you! Thank you!

Lust and Love

Intro

In today’s modernized, secular culture, relationships wither and die. Common and
frequent, most relationships usually end after the first year; however, many can
cease after years of marriage or dating. Many “experts” have squandered this issue.
Is it because of premarital sex? Or is it because of Hollywood’s imaginative creation
of an “ideal” person? Is it because of a materialistic culture struggling to find
true happiness? Or is it because absolute values have become obsolete? The answer is:
all of the above, but not even close to the real answer.

What experts will not tell you is the surprising intimacy with both the Christian
faith and relationships. If the couple has and practices a strong Christian faith,
statistically, the relationship lasts longer. However, if the couple has a weak
Christian faith, the reverse happens. But “love experts” hide this fact because
assuming that the Christian faith is the best for relationships is “intolerant” of
other belief systems*.

The problem, however, does not stop with the difference in faith. Even Christians
struggle with relationships. Why? If Christians have a strong, practicing faith then
should not they have a solid relationship? But, the problem is not with the faith,
but rather a lack of faith. In today’s contemporary society, the most important value
becomes poisoned by the deterring of true faith. Paul, apostle of Jesus and primary
author of the New Testament, writes, “And now abide faith, hope, love, these three;
but the greatest of these is love” (1 Cor. 13:13). Sadly, love has become
indistinguishable from the most evil of all emotions: lust.

The issue has finally come forth. The perversion of love is lust, not hate, which has
become a popular misconception in hippie mentalities and even Bible studies. Where it
is true that we are commanded to “love your neighbor as yourself,” hate does not
distort love, but rather is empty of it, or at least lacking (Mat. 22:39). Lust on
the other hand changes love. In this argument, I will attempt to discuss the
following four points. 1) What is true love? 2) What is lust 3) Why is lust dangerous
and 4) How can lust be prevented?

Part I

Love is a very complex subject. For instance, the word can be used as a noun, a verb,
an adjective with lovely, and an adverb with lovingly. With a wide array of usage,
how can I condense the definition of love? Unlike most pastors, priests, and other
preachers, however, I will be grasping this issue by the horns. When many preachers
speak on the topic, they generally diverge into discussing the problems with
relationships and lose focus on the topic of love. This method of preaching can
easily lose the audience and the topic falls on deaf ears. So here is the answer:
love is God. The word “is” allows the sentence to be reflective, thus, God is love is
the same as saying love is God.

So how does God equal love? Well let us look at the word. The most common Greek word
for love is “agapeo” (verb) or “agape” (noun). Both mean the Christian love that God
wants and expects from all of us. This definition of love is pure and holy. This love
is purposeful, and meaningful rather than emotional and impulsive: “phileo” (verb) in
the Koine Greek. In the apostle John’s last letter, John writes, “And we have known
and believed the love (agape) that God has for us. God is love (again agape), and he
who abides in love (agape) abides in God, and God in him” (1 John 4:16). This verse
is essential for defining love. True love (agape) can only be found when you live
with God. Literally, you allow yourself to be surrounded by Him, completely drenched
with the Holy Spirit. Only then will you know true love.

So how does this address the issue of relationships? The Bible makes it clear, “We
love Him because He first loved us. If someone says, ‘I love God,’ and hates his
brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can
he love God whom he has not seen?” (1 John 4:19-23). If we do not show the same
genuine love God shows us to each of our neighbors, girlfriends, boyfriends,
husbands, wives, brothers, or sisters, how can we say we “love” God? On the flip
side, if we do not show God the same genuine love we show our neighbors, girlfriends,
boyfriends, husbands, wives, brothers, or sisters, how can we truly love them? For
without God, love is impossible.

Here is where I start to open a can of worms, but the issue needs to be confronted.
In my opinion, based off of Scripture, a non-Christian will never know true love. I
will address this issue more in depth in the final section later, but it is of my
knowledge that the “love” non-Christians experience is either one of two things.
Either it is love (phileo) which is emotional and impulsive, and not genuine, or it
is lust disguising itself as love. Both are not healthy in any relationship as I will
address in the third section.

Part II

So now that we have established that God is love and vice versa, I shall address the
perversion of love: lust. Where hate is a strong emotion that God detests, He abhors
lust. So what exactly is lust? Well the Greek word for lust is “epithumia” which,
depending on context, either means “desire” or “lust.” Jesus himself uses “desire”
when addressing the apostles during the Last Supper; however, He uses “lust” when
discussing adultery in His Sermon on the Mount. Lust is a sin, and like a sin causes
harm, but can feel good.

Beware! Lust is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Disguised as love, it slowly creeps
through into your heart and poisons you from the inside out. Guard your heart! In the
book of Proverbs, King Solomon writes, “Hear, my son, and be wise; And guide your
heart in the way” (Prov. 23:19). How ironic, the man who wrote that proverb, fell
into temptation and turned to lust, which perverted his love for God. In the book of
1 Kings, it is written, “But King Solomon loved many foreign women…For it was so,
when Solomon was old, that his wives turned his heart after other gods; and his heart
was not loyal to the LORD his God, as was the heart of his father David” (1 Kings
11:1, 4). The love Solomon had for his wives was not genuine love, and was not even
love. It was lust. For only lust will turn a heart away from God. If God is love,
than a heart full of love will be devoted to God.

Solomon was not the only character in the Bible to surrender to lust. His father
David fell into sin when he committed adultery with Bathsheba, costing him a
general’s and a newborn’s life. The judge Samson was a man who greatly lusted after
women, and because of lust, lost the source of his strength. Is it any wonder that
God commanded His people, “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not
covet your neighbor’s wife; nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox,
nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s” (Exodus 20:17)? Lust brings
pain, suffering, and even death. What may feel pleasurable, or “right” at the moment,
is a sin in disguise.

Part III

Both love and lust have been addressed. Now I shall explain why lust is unhealthy for
any relationships. Like previously stated, love is God. Lust constantly attempts to
steer your heart away from God, and if taken, will turn your heart. The reason why
lust is worse than hate is not because of the power of the emotion, in fact, I could
argue that hate is a very powerful emotion compared to lust. The reason is lust is
deceptively close to love, yet will destroy your heart.
The heart is the most fragile aspect of any person. It is the first to change its
opinion and is highly impulsive and spontaneous. It is usually the most susceptible
to the concept of sin. What feels good must be right, right? If it was not for the
power of the mind, the heart would be out of control, and if it was not for the power
of the soul, the heart would be broken. But most of all, if it was not for the power
of God we would not have a heart to love. Where the mind deals with logic and
rationale, the heart deals with emotion and has the capability to love. Lust
constantly attacks the heart, and turns it from God.

If a relationship was built on lust rather than love, the heart would not be
protected. The relationship would suffer because instead of genuine love pouring from
the heart like a stream, the heart is being constricted and blood and tears replaces
love. This is why every couple fights, why married couples have skirmishes within the
house, why divorce happens. Instead of love, lust fills the heart. Instead of God,
sin leads the heart.

Part IV

Now that we know the difference between love and lust, and why lust harms
relationships, I can now bring the hope into the argument: how can lust be prevented?
There is only one solution. Put God as the most important priority of your life. Not
a husband/wife, boyfriend/girlfriend, or any people, or an animal/pet, or a job, or
searching for a job, or money, or college, or school, or music, or hobbies, or
politics, or science, and the list continues. When we place something above God, we
idealize the object. The second commandment specifically tells us not to idealize
anything: “You shall not make for yourself a carved image” (Exod. 20:4). Where we are
not making a carved image, we are placing an image above God, which in His standards
is just as sinful.

The problem is many people do not know how to put God before everything else.
According to some people they, “Do not have the time to pray or read the Bible.” This
response urges me to ask, “Why not? What could possibly be more important than
devotion and worship?” If you work long hours and can’t find time to pray or devote
yourself to God; quit. It is better than falling for lust creeping into your heart.
If you find yourself watching TV because it is your favourite show, but you are
lacking in prayer; throw out your TV. Is television worth more than God’s love? If
you find yourself going out with friends who partake in sinful acts instead of
worshipping God; leave those friends, for with God you are never alone.

Conclusion

Beware of lust! It will do everything it can to keep your heart from God. And lust is
not just sexual; it is everything you place before God in your life. I challenge you.
If you are in a relationship, re-evaluate it. Are you finding yourself spending more
time with your boyfriend or girlfriend instead of God? Do you find yourself going on
dates with him or her instead of spending time with your eternal Father? When he or
she calls during your devotion hour, do you stop to be with them or do you tell them
that you are in devotion? If you find they take more of your life than leave them,
for once you get married you are bound by a covenant.

Married couples: If you find yourselves arguing, find out why? Why argue when you
have the God Who Provides looking after you? Instead of quarreling, put God above
your trivial worries. If you complain because your husband or wife does not love you,
find out why? Lust all too often is the root for most marriage complications.
Husbands love your wives with genuine love. Not because you have to, but because you
want to. Wives submit to your husbands, he loves you and provides for you. Do not
bicker. If there is a problem in the marriage, fix it! Divorce is not the solution
and is a sin, usually brought about because of lust.

Single people: Paul writes, “Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be loosed. Are
you loosed from a wife? Do not seek a wife…He who is unmarried cares for the things
of the Lord-how he may please the Lord. But he who is married cares about the things
of the world-how he may please his wife” (1 Cor. 7:27, 32). Paul is not saying
marriage is a sin, in fact it is written, “Therefore a man shall leave his father and
mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall be one flesh” (Genesis 2:23).
Rather, Paul is stating that marriage can lead to placing the needs of your wife or
husband over those of God. Again, the idea of idolatry, derived from a lust for
something, replaces God, who is love, from your heart. My advice to single people: if
you wish to date, go for it, but diligently guard your heart from lust. Once it has a
hold, it will do everything it can to rot your heart.

Finally, to the non-Christians: As I stated earlier, it is of my opinion that two
non-Christians cannot know true love because they do not know God. Here is my
challenge for you. Ask yourself why you are not a Christian? Is it because you do not
know how to be one? Talk to me, find a Christian friend, or go to a church and talk
to a Pastor. Is it because you think Christians are hypocrites? It is time to
re-evaluate, everyone is a hypocrite; it is our sinful nature. Is it because you
cannot believe in God? I ask you, is that a valid excuse? What is holding you from
believing; is it science, possessions, ideals? If you wish to know true love, if you
wish to know God and his son Jesus Christ who died for us out of love, than talk to
someone about your decision, pray about your decision, and read the Bible.

To everyone: I love each and every one of you. I am always praying for you, and
praying that God will use you to further the glorious Kingdom. May God bless each one
of you!

Your servant and brother in Christ,
William Forrest Huddleston

Second Paragraph: *I do recognize the fact that non-Christians have relationships,
and do get married, but as I have stated, I do not believe they are the healthiest
because instead of love, they are based off of lust which is deceptively similar to
love.

!	MODNOTE The report for this post has been dealt with and closed. Durro

Is there a summary?

Sorry, it is a bit lengthy. It was a sermon. Anyways. God is love. Lust is a perversion of lust. Too know true love, one must know God. That is the summary.

Well, I'm not sure which other member prompted you to post that, but it looks like it violates forum rules against preaching.

Furthermore, saying that you will be respectful and courteous and then saying that all non-Christians will never know true love, and to disparage their relationships as based only on lust, is deeply disrespectful.

I won't be surprised if you get some very disrespectful comments coming your way, and you should know that you have earned it.

Finally, to the non-Christians: As I stated earlier, it is of my opinion that two
non-Christians cannot know true love because they do not know God. Here is my
challenge for you. Ask yourself ... Is it because you think Christians are hypocrites?

Well, your post is hypocritical. As I pointed out above, you ask for respect but show none.

willhud9 wrote:What experts will not tell you is the surprising intimacy with both the Christian
faith and relationships. If the couple has and practices a strong Christian faith,
statistically, the relationship lasts longer. However, if the couple has a weak
Christian faith, the reverse happens. But “love experts” hide this fact because
assuming that the Christian faith is the best for relationships is “intolerant” of
other belief systems*.

Citation please?

Love is a very complex subject. For instance, the word can be used as a noun, a verb,
an adjective with lovely, and an adverb with lovingly. With a wide array of usage,
how can I condense the definition of love? Unlike most pastors, priests, and other
preachers, however, I will be grasping this issue by the horns. When many preachers
speak on the topic, they generally diverge into discussing the problems with
relationships and lose focus on the topic of love. This method of preaching can
easily lose the audience and the topic falls on deaf ears. So here is the answer:
love is God. The word “is” allows the sentence to be reflective, thus, God is love is
the same as saying love is God.

Woo.

So how does God equal love? Well let us look at the word. The most common Greek word
for love is “agapeo” (verb) or “agape” (noun). Both mean the Christian love that God
wants and expects from all of us. This definition of love is pure and holy. This love
is purposeful, and meaningful rather than emotional and impulsive: “phileo” (verb) in
the Koine Greek. In the apostle John’s last letter, John writes, “And we have known
and believed the love (agape) that God has for us. God is love (again agape), and he
who abides in love (agape) abides in God, and God in him” (1 John 4:16). This verse
is essential for defining love. True love (agape) can only be found when you live
with God. Literally, you allow yourself to be surrounded by Him, completely drenched
with the Holy Spirit. Only then will you know true love.

What does etymology have anything to do with here?

So how does this address the issue of relationships? The Bible makes it clear, “We
love Him because He first loved us. If someone says, ‘I love God,’ and hates his
brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can
he love God whom he has not seen?” (1 John 4:19-23). If we do not show the same
genuine love God shows us to each of our neighbors, girlfriends, boyfriends,
husbands, wives, brothers, or sisters, how can we say we “love” God? On the flip
side, if we do not show God the same genuine love we show our neighbors, girlfriends,
boyfriends, husbands, wives, brothers, or sisters, how can we truly love them? For
without God, love is impossible.

Again, subjective Woo.

Here is where I start to open a can of worms, but the issue needs to be confronted.
In my opinion, based off of Scripture, a non-Christian will never know true love. I
will address this issue more in depth in the final section later, but it is of my
knowledge that the “love” non-Christians experience is either one of two things.
Either it is love (phileo) which is emotional and impulsive, and not genuine, or it
is lust disguising itself as love. Both are not healthy in any relationship as I will
address in the third section.

Sweeping generalization fallacy.

So now that we have established that God is love and vice versa, I shall address the
perversion of love: lust. Where hate is a strong emotion that God detests, He abhors
lust. So what exactly is lust? Well the Greek word for lust is “epithumia” which,
depending on context, either means “desire” or “lust.” Jesus himself uses “desire”
when addressing the apostles during the Last Supper; however, He uses “lust” when
discussing adultery in His Sermon on the Mount. Lust is a sin, and like a sin causes
harm, but can feel good.

Could you differentiate between the good felt from sin as compared to good felt from good?

Beware! Lust is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Disguised as love, it slowly creeps
through into your heart and poisons you from the inside out. Guard your heart! In the
book of Proverbs, King Solomon writes, “Hear, my son, and be wise; And guide your
heart in the way” (Prov. 23:19). How ironic, the man who wrote that proverb, fell
into temptation and turned to lust, which perverted his love for God. In the book of
1 Kings, it is written, “But King Solomon loved many foreign women…For it was so,
when Solomon was old, that his wives turned his heart after other gods; and his heart
was not loyal to the LORD his God, as was the heart of his father David” (1 Kings
11:1, 4). The love Solomon had for his wives was not genuine love, and was not even
love. It was lust. For only lust will turn a heart away from God. If God is love,
than a heart full of love will be devoted to God.

Solomon was not the only character in the Bible to surrender to lust. His father
David fell into sin when he committed adultery with Bathsheba, costing him a
general’s and a newborn’s life. The judge Samson was a man who greatly lusted after
women, and because of lust, lost the source of his strength. Is it any wonder that
God commanded His people, “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not
covet your neighbor’s wife; nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox,
nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s” (Exodus 20:17)? Lust brings
pain, suffering, and even death. What may feel pleasurable, or “right” at the moment,
is a sin in disguise.

Right.

Both love and lust have been addressed.

Now I shall explain why lust is unhealthy for
any relationships. Like previously stated, love is God. Lust constantly attempts to
steer your heart away from God, and if taken, will turn your heart. The reason why
lust is worse than hate is not because of the power of the emotion, in fact, I could
argue that hate is a very powerful emotion compared to lust. The reason is lust is
deceptively close to love, yet will destroy your heart.

uh-huh...

The heart is the most fragile aspect of any person. It is the first to change its
opinion and is highly impulsive and spontaneous. It is usually the most susceptible
to the concept of sin. What feels good must be right, right? If it was not for the
power of the mind, the heart would be out of control, and if it was not for the power
of the soul, the heart would be broken. But most of all, if it was not for the power
of God we would not have a heart to love. Where the mind deals with logic and
rationale, the heart deals with emotion and has the capability to love. Lust
constantly attacks the heart, and turns it from God.

What about those who don't believe in God? We're fine?

If a relationship was built on lust rather than love, the heart would not be
protected. The relationship would suffer because instead of genuine love pouring from
the heart like a stream, the heart is being constricted and blood and tears replaces
love. This is why every couple fights, why married couples have skirmishes within the
house, why divorce happens. Instead of love, lust fills the heart. Instead of God,
sin leads the heart.

I really hope you're being poetic here.

Now that we know the difference between love and lust, and why lust harms
relationships, I can now bring the hope into the argument: how can lust be prevented?
There is only one solution. Put God as the most important priority of your life. Not
a husband/wife, boyfriend/girlfriend, or any people, or an animal/pet, or a job, or
searching for a job, or money, or college, or school, or music, or hobbies, or
politics, or science, and the list continues. When we place something above God, we
idealize the object. The second commandment specifically tells us not to idealize
anything: “You shall not make for yourself a carved image” (Exod. 20:4). Where we are
not making a carved image, we are placing an image above God, which in His standards
is just as sinful.

And this is your analysis of the scripture I presume?

The problem is many people do not know how to put God before everything else.
According to some people they, “Do not have the time to pray or read the Bible.” This
response urges me to ask, “Why not? What could possibly be more important than
devotion and worship?” If you work long hours and can’t find time to pray or devote
yourself to God; quit. It is better than falling for lust creeping into your heart.
If you find yourself watching TV because it is your favourite show, but you are
lacking in prayer; throw out your TV. Is television worth more than God’s love? If
you find yourself going out with friends who partake in sinful acts instead of
worshipping God; leave those friends, for with God you are never alone.

A life, maybe?

Finally, to the non-Christians: As I stated earlier, it is of my opinion that two
non-Christians cannot know true love because they do not know God. Here is my
challenge for you. Ask yourself why you are not a Christian? Is it because you do not
know how to be one? Talk to me, find a Christian friend, or go to a church and talk
to a Pastor. Is it because you think Christians are hypocrites? It is time to
re-evaluate, everyone is a hypocrite; it is our sinful nature. Is it because you
cannot believe in God? I ask you, is that a valid excuse? What is holding you from
believing; is it science, possessions, ideals? If you wish to know true love, if you
wish to know God and his son Jesus Christ who died for us out of love, than talk to
someone about your decision, pray about your decision, and read the Bible.

I shall pass on thee holy wagon coupon. Thank ye.

To everyone: I love each and every one of you. I am always praying for you, and
praying that God will use you to further the glorious Kingdom. May God bless each one
of you!

Right, because everybody wants to be a sock puppet! Could I ask if you believe in fatalism?

willhud9 wrote:
Finally, to the non-Christians: As I stated earlier, it is of my opinion that two
non-Christians cannot know true love because they do not know God. Here is my
challenge for you. Ask yourself why you are not a Christian? Is it because you do not
know how to be one? Talk to me, find a Christian friend, or go to a church and talk
to a Pastor. Is it because you think Christians are hypocrites? It is time to
re-evaluate, everyone is a hypocrite; it is our sinful nature. Is it because you
cannot believe in God? I ask you, is that a valid excuse? What is holding you from
believing; is it science, possessions, ideals? If you wish to know true love, if you
wish to know God and his son Jesus Christ who died for us out of love, than talk to
someone about your decision, pray about your decision, and read the Bible.

I'm not a Christian because there's no evidence that Christianity is anything other than a human construct, and there's no evidence that agape love is anything other than an exclusionary label applied to a common emotional experience.

Watch this vid, have a giggle and see if you can spot the parallels.

William Forrest Huddleston  wrote: Finally, to the non-Christians: As I stated earlier, it is of my opinion that two non-Christians cannot know true love because they do not know God. Here is my challenge for you. Ask yourself why you are not a Christian? Is it because you do not know how to be one? Talk to me, find a Christian friend, or go to a church and talk to a Pastor. Is it because you think Christians are hypocrites? It is time to re-evaluate, everyone is a hypocrite; it is our sinful nature. Is it because you cannot believe in God? I ask you, is that a valid excuse? What is holding you from believing; is it science, possessions, ideals? If you wish to know true love, if you wish to know God and his son Jesus Christ who died for us out of love, than talk to someone about your decision, pray about your decision, and read the Bible.

If you haven`t read the FUA (Forum User`s Agreement) found here, you should do so immediately, so you can avoid further violations such as dogmatic presentations. If this opening post was solely for the purpose of criticism in the instance of creationist assertions, I would say it`s legitimate. I`ll be honest that I only skimmed it, so I`ll respond to your challenge in question. I am NOT a Christian by any denomination available, because instead of being credulous, I prefer skepticism, rationalism, reason, etc. and most importantly, I do not have an appeal to unsubstantiated claims. I gather religious belief as intellectually invalid and necessarily against logical reasoning, and in defiance might I add linguistic meaning via I don`t “God” you.

Also, in my opinion, if anything was keeping hold this true love from atheists, agnostics and other religious beliefs besides Christianity, it is the widespread stigma and discrimination that Christians implement against them in order to appeal said individuals of other beliefs and lack thereof to believe in your purportedly Magic Jew and Magic Man. I would like clear substantiation for your assertions and citations for statistics you have mentioned in the beginning. I`d also like to share the following link: http://www.barna.org/barna-update/artic ... s-released

"Christians are more likely to experience divorce than are non-Christians," Barna Research Group, 1999-DEC-21, at: http://www.barna.org/ Barna no longer has this report online. However, a review of the report is at: http://www.adherents.com/

Variation in divorce rates by religion:
Religion % have been divorced
Jews 30%
Born-again Christians 27%
Other Christians 24%
Atheists, Agnostics 21%

From: http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm

Sciwoman wrote:"Christians are more likely to experience divorce than are non-Christians," Barna Research Group, 1999-DEC-21, at: http://www.barna.org/ Barna no longer has this report online. However, a review of the report is at: http://www.adherents.com/

Variation in divorce rates by religion:
Religion % have been divorced
Jews 30%
Born-again Christians 27%
Other Christians 24%
Atheists, Agnostics 21%

From: http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm

Thanks Sciwoman - I was about to ask for support that Christian marriages last longer as I strongly doubt they do.

Steve wrote:

Sciwoman wrote:"Christians are more likely to experience divorce than are non-Christians," Barna Research Group, 1999-DEC-21, at: http://www.barna.org/ Barna no longer has this report online. However, a review of the report is at: http://www.adherents.com/

Variation in divorce rates by religion:
Religion % have been divorced
Jews 30%
Born-again Christians 27%
Other Christians 24%
Atheists, Agnostics 21%

From: http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm

Thanks Sciwoman - I was about to ask for support that Christian marriages last longer as I strongly doubt they do.

No problem. I have the Religious Tolerance link bookmarked for just such occasions.

willhud9 wrote:Finally, to the non-Christians: As I stated earlier, it is of my opinion that two
non-Christians cannot know true love because they do not know God. Here is my
challenge for you. Ask yourself why you are not a Christian? Is it because you do not
know how to be one? Talk to me, find a Christian friend, or go to a church and talk
to a Pastor. Is it because you think Christians are hypocrites? It is time to
re-evaluate, everyone is a hypocrite; it is our sinful nature. Is it because you
cannot believe in God? I ask you, is that a valid excuse? What is holding you from
believing; is it science, possessions, ideals? If you wish to know true love, if you
wish to know God and his son Jesus Christ who died for us out of love, than talk to
someone about your decision, pray about your decision, and read the Bible.

- It is my opinion that two Christians cannot know true love because they think they know God*.
- I am not a Christian because the Christian God shows no more characteristics of existence than the Easter Bunny.
- To be a Christian one has to "accept Jesus in their heart™"
- Yes, I think (some) Christians are hypocrites. Many preach their superior morals whilst failing to practise them and while reality tells us that Christian divorce is common, Christian child abuse is common, Christians being jailed for crime is common.
- One needs no excuse for admitting there is no empirical evidence for Jesus resurrection, nor sound logical argument for the existence of a god. In fact it's intellectually honest and laudible.
- Nothing holds me from believing, it is merely that there are infinitely many unevidenced claims and it is quite literally physically impossible to believe them all. Consequently the only coherent rational position is to believe none until such time there is reason to believe them.
- Prayer doesn't work, the Bible is boring and self-contradictory, Jesus did not die for us out of love and I don't wish to "know God" when I do not know that he exists, because this would be quite obviously ridiculous. I would like to know true love though, but that doesn't require belief in an imaginary friend any more than it requires belief in the Easter Bunny.

*It's not really, but it's worth as much as your assertion and I do enjoy a spot of gainsaying from time to time.

Finally, to the non-Christians: As I stated earlier, it is of my opinion that two
non-Christians cannot know true love because they do not know God. Here is my
challenge for you. Ask yourself why you are not a Christian? Is it because you do not
know how to be one? Talk to me, find a Christian friend, or go to a church and talk
to a Pastor. Is it because you think Christians are hypocrites? It is time to
re-evaluate, everyone is a hypocrite; it is our sinful nature. Is it because you
cannot believe in God? I ask you, is that a valid excuse? What is holding you from
believing; is it science, possessions, ideals? If you wish to know true love, if you
wish to know God and his son Jesus Christ who died for us out of love, than talk to
someone about your decision, pray about your decision, and read the Bible.

To everyone: I love each and every one of you. I am always praying for you, and
praying that God will use you to further the glorious Kingdom. May God bless each one
of you!

Brought tears to my eyes. I'm a Christian from now on.

If God is love then love is nothing.

if god is love, then i guess Fatal Attraction's romance.

In Part I, paragraph 2 you said:

willhud9 wrote:If we do not show the same genuine love God shows us to each of our neighbors, girlfriends, boyfriends, husbands, wives, brothers, or sisters, how can we say we “love” God?

Then, in Part IV, paragraph 2 you say:

willhud9 wrote:If you find yourself going out with friends who partake in sinful acts instead of worshipping God; leave those friends, for with God you are never alone.

(my blue)



Thank you for demonstrating the true hypocrisy of Christian love.

The Christians I know have got that second paragraph down to an art.

willhud9, do you really know God? Do you really know what agape love is?
Here's an article to get you started.

Wikipedia wrote: C. S. Lewis, in his book The Four Loves, used agape to describe what he believed was the highest level of love known to humanity—a selfless love, a love that was passionately committed to the well-being of the other.

How can a person say they "love" God if they demonstrate it like you do in the second paragraph?

MrGray wrote:

willhud9 wrote:What experts will not tell you is the surprising intimacy with both the Christian
faith and relationships. If the couple has and practices a strong Christian faith,
statistically, the relationship lasts longer. However, if the couple has a weak
Christian faith, the reverse happens. But “love experts” hide this fact because
assuming that the Christian faith is the best for relationships is “intolerant” of
other belief systems*.

Citation please?

I'd like to see that as well. From what I recall most studies show higher divorce rates amongst Christians. Or were they just not 'strong enough' Christians?
*cough*True Scotsman*cough*

willhud9 wrote:Sorry, it is a bit lengthy. It was a sermon. Anyways. God is love. Lust is a perversion of lust. Too know true love, one must know God. That is the summary.

Some good old fashione woo nonsense then

Utter pile of tosh, for reasons others have already pointed out, I suggest you stick preachy nonsense where the sun doesn't shine.

So uhh, I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for citations from the peer reviewed studies done wherefrom the op gained factual knowledge to support his unending wall of mere assertions.

So, mr. willhud9, do you actually HAVE links to real studies done to support all this bullshit?
We can start with your first paragraph :

willhud9 wrote:In today’s modernized, secular culture, relationships wither and die. Common and
frequent, most relationships usually end after the first year; however, many can
cease after years of marriage or dating. Many “experts” have squandered this issue.
Is it because of premarital sex? Or is it because of Hollywood’s imaginative creation
of an “ideal” person? Is it because of a materialistic culture struggling to find
true happiness? Or is it because absolute values have become obsolete? The answer is:
all of the above, but not even close to the real answer.

Citation please. Without you linking a huge fucking amount of studies actually done by real and actual researches who knew what they were doing, all we have here is you talking out of your ass and no reason to accept it.
Additionally, I'd like to anecdotally testify that I'm finding great happiness and purpose in life, despite not having a partner but indulging myself in premarital sex at any reasonable and given opportunity. If anything, I'd say it doesn't happen frequently enough.
In addition, I'm not suffering under any delusions about what kind of person hollywood wants me to be. And please define what exactly materialistic culture even means?

willhud9 wrote:What experts will not tell you is the surprising intimacy with both the Christian
faith and relationships. If the couple has and practices a strong Christian faith,
statistically, the relationship lasts longer.

Citation please.

willhud9 wrote:However, if the couple has a weak Christian faith, the reverse happens.

Citation please. And I'd also like to see evidence that, even if this is true, that people are actually happier in these marriages, and don't just stay married for fear of persecution in the fundamentalist religious community they often live in.

willhud9 wrote:But “love experts” hide this fact because assuming that the Christian faith is the best for relationships is “intolerant” of other belief systems*.

Sounds like Christian Persecution Syndrometm and bullshit to me, and so I'd like a CITATION PLEASE.

willhud9 wrote:The problem, however, does not stop with the difference in faith. Even Christians struggle with relationships.

How can this be? Maybe faith is just bullshit after all and maybe, just maybe, something else is at play here.

willhud9 wrote:Why? If Christians have a strong, practicing faith then should not they have a solid relationship? But, the problem is not with the faith, but rather a lack of faith.

Try a lack of love and see if this doesn't make more sense. Oh, yes it does.

willhud9 wrote:In today’s contemporary society, the most important value becomes poisoned by the deterring of true faith. Paul, apostle of Jesus and primary author of the New Testament, writes,

Oh you're going to quote 2000 year old bronze-age goat-rapist mythology as the source of your "wisdom" are you? Can't wait.

willhud9 wrote:“And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love” (1 Cor. 13:13).

Yes if only Christians, even the "strong faithed" fundamentalist ones actually followed some of these preachings.

willhud9 wrote:Sadly, love has become indistinguishable from the most evil of all emotions: lust.

Oh Gawd...

willhud9 wrote:The issue has finally come forth.

Finally.

willhud9 wrote:The perversion of love is lust, not hate, which hasbecome a popular misconception in hippie mentalities and even Bible studies.

Hippie mentalities and bible studies? R O F L.
And here we have it, ladies and gentlemen. Lust is the problem. We, an evolved primate species who shares this basic need to copy our genes with every single other organism on the planet, without exception, are somehow different anyway and cannot allow ourselves to participate in this most filthy of endavours. One could question oneself why the supposed god in his supposed infinite wisdom would seek to make sex SO FUCKING GOOD, and a complete nessecity for the living of a normal healthy life and the continuation of the species. But never mind that... no reason to ask this question at all. Stop asking questions entirely, actally. Everything we need to know is written down in vague fables by delusional, sheepraping, illiterate, woman-hating nutcases, who heard voices in their spastic epilepsic convulsions, at the infancy of civilisation.

Forget the enlightenment, the pursuit of knowledge build on the philosophy and mathematcs by giants of human thought. It's now all crap and actively perpetrated by Hippies and even some bible studies.

Oh... My... God.

willhud9 wrote:Lust on the other hand changes love. In this argument, I will attempt to discuss the following four points.

Que mythological apologetics :

In any case, I can't be bothered going through so much religious bullshit in one sitting. But this one question here below send the alarmclock ringing.

willhud9 wrote:4) How can lust be prevented?

Here's a hint : It neither can nor should. I have never heard of a case where someone managed to actually take away their "lust", that most basic and undeniable of instincts, without either suffering from some grotesque need to molest childen or similar, or actually physically cutting away parts of their own organs.

There is nothing wrong with lust. Lust is normal for all organisms on the planet and noone should feel guitly about desiring to have sexual relations with someone else. Sexual lust (and the relief thereof by actual participation in sex) is an absolute requirement for living a healthy adult life. Our primate ancestors and their ancestors before them all the way back to the evolution of sex at the dawn of life have been engaging happily in this activity for billions of years. Your parents lusted each other and that's how you are here today, and their parents before them.

Every society on eath where lust was/is somehow forbidden or bad, is a fundamentalist, religious cesspool where people are persecuted for the most harmless of transgressions in the most barbaric and groteque ways. This insane conjecture that lust is somehow the problem is what ultimately leads to such horific and babaric acts as femal genital mutilations(and the male mutilations), stoning your daughter to death etc. etc.

The "law" is always enforced by jealoux, highly sick but deeply, secretly lustful men, who act out their sexual frustrations by violently persecuting people who manage to get a little something. Barely men in puperty and young adults are recruited to enforce these laws by actively seeking out "adulterers" and "transgressors" and beat them to death. With religious mandate by god, of course.

And god's mercy on those who dare to show lust for one of their own sex. Not only is lust bad, but THIS kind of lust is the worst of all kinds of transgressions before god. Never mind the fact that evey other organism on the planet sometimes engange in homosexual relationships and that there would be no reason to expect the human animal to be any different. No, we ARE different, because 2000 year old fables by previously mentioned illitarate, babaric, goat-rapists says so. And so these most basic of animalistic functions we have, which we see mirrored in every other sexually reproducing species on the planet, are behaviors planted there by satan to trick us into thinking we are "just animals". Right. Makes perfect sense.

The world is slowly becoming less and less religious. It's the information age at work. It's a slow process but it's happening. And in the meantime, to the best of my ability, I'm going to fuck with every woman who wants to. Case closed.