Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

Logic applied

Incl. intelligent design, belief in divine creation

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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#121  Postby Calilasseia » Nov 20, 2011 5:39 am

missy wrote:Yeah well I'm done here. Wow, you guys are mean. what a bunch of rude condescending people. You do not give people a chance. Obviously we speak a different language and you did not understand anything I said. The responses were just so weird, like you were responding to a totally different post. I'm also surprised at the lack of knowledge. Do you people live in a cave?


Allow me to educate you here.

There's a maxim that operates on these forums, which consists, quite simply, of the statement:

BAD IDEAS EXIST TO BE DESTROYED.

If people bring bad ideas here, we feed those bad ideas into the shredder. That's the modus operandi that applies here. You can either accept this, or find somewhere a little less demanding. The choice is yours. We've been dealing with creationist duplicity, including a form of duplicity known as concern trolling (where they pretend that they're not creationists, only to resurrect the usual tiresome and previously debunked canards shortly after their arrival), for some time, and as a consequence of having dealt with said duplicity, we tend to operate on a hair trigger. Furthermore, since quite a few of the people posting here are also professional scientists, who know a damn sight more than the Hovinds, Hams and other charlatans of this world with respect to the relevant subject matter, the culture here is very much geared to the proper scientific practice of testing assertions to destruction. Anyone who wants their assertions to be treated as established fact, had better provide something that meets relevant evidential standards. Understood?

Oh, and by the way, there is no "missing link" between humans and apes. Humans ARE apes. We share a large degree of anatomical commonality, which reflects the fact that, for example, humans and chimpanzees share 98% commonality with respect to the contents of their genomes, a fact that has been established in relevant peer reviewed scientific papers covering the sequencing of both genomes. Indeed, I've presented detailed results from one apposite paper here in the past. The "missing link" is a term that originally found its way into journalism, courtesy of the scientific ignorance of the journalists in question, and which has since been misappropriated by creationists, in a desperate attempt to preserve the assertions of their doctrine, with respect to humans being purportedly "special". If necessary, I can bring the relevant scientific papers here, and in quantity. It's not as if I haven't done this before.

So, before you start hurling accusations around, I suggest you learn something about the environment you are now in, and its occupants. Would you go walking the streets of Mecca in a bikini halter top and hot pants? Or turn up at a full dress parade of Marines wearing a ballerina tutu and diving flippers? Precisely. Likewise, you don't turn up here expecting everyone to genuflect before whatever previously recycled notions you happen to think constitutes startlingly original wisdom, especially when the regulars know very well that what you think constitutes startlingly original wisdom is anything but. There are people here who hold tenure, or are on the verge of doing so, with a range of academic institutions, said institutions in some cases boasting an impressive track record of hosting landmark research. At least one of the posters here is a geneticist and molecular biologist, embarking upon a long programme of research into the fine details of cancer cell development, with the specific aim of finding therapeutic techniques and agents that can target a multiplicity of cancers without affecting surrounding healthy cells, and as a result of the fact that he's spent two decades reaching the point where he is now a tenured researcher, I think he's likely to have rather a lot of substance to offer, don't you?
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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#122  Postby missy » Nov 20, 2011 5:58 am


!
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This post has already been reported and handled accordingly. See modnote here.


calilessassie you are an idiot. Humans are not apes. Yes we may be 95% similar but what's missing is the human genome. In fact, that is what separates us from most other mammals. The human genome only makes up 5% of our dna. I'm sure your highly intelligent scientific friends know that. I am not a creationist. Creationist do not believe that god altered an apes dna to make them intelligent. I suggest you get a life, get off these boards and educate yourself. You are just as bad as the god-did-it creationists. You know nothing outside of what your little mind wants to know.
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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#123  Postby Oldskeptic » Nov 20, 2011 6:00 am

missy wrote:Yeah well I'm done here. Wow, you guys are mean. what a bunch of rude condescending people. You do not give people a chance. Obviously we speak a different language and you did not understand anything I said. The responses were just so weird, like you were responding to a totally different post. I'm also surprised at the lack of knowledge. Do you people live in a cave?


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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#124  Postby Onyx8 » Nov 20, 2011 6:20 am

missy wrote:calilessassie you are an idiot. Humans are not apes. Yes we may be 95% similar but what's missing is the human genome. In fact, that is what separates us from most other mammals. The human genome only makes up 5% of our dna. I'm sure your highly intelligent scientific friends know that. I am not a creationist. Creationist do not believe that god altered an apes dna to make them intelligent. I suggest you get a life, get off these boards and educate yourself. You are just as bad as the god-did-it creationists. You know nothing outside of what your little mind wants to know.



and you said we were mean.

I'm crying at what you said.
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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#125  Postby CookieJon » Nov 20, 2011 6:21 am

missy wrote:calilessassie you are an idiot.


I thought you were leaving because people were being meanies... :coffee:
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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#126  Postby Spearthrower » Nov 20, 2011 6:24 am

missy wrote:I agree that Evolution is a theory, even though it has that missing link. But it's a good theory that most intelligent people can relate too. Creation isn't even a theory, it's a myth dating back thousands of years. There were many creation myths back then because that is all their brains could process at the time. Have you heard of a good creation myth since then? Of course not because we are much more intelligent than our ancestors.

Here is another theory -- if there is a "creator", then they are much more scientifically advanced beings than we are.



Missy: can I suggest looking up the term 'scientific theory' - it's not just an idea that sounds good.
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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#127  Postby Onyx8 » Nov 20, 2011 6:25 am

at least calilessassie can copy and paste successfully.
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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#128  Postby Spearthrower » Nov 20, 2011 6:27 am

missy wrote:Scientists have always believed there was a missing link between apes and humans.


This is wrong on so many levels.

Humans are apes, for a start. You can't have a missing link between the same thing.

Secondly, scientists didn't always think this - it was a prediction resulting from evolutionary theory.

Next, there are numerous candidate species for our ancestry.

After that, the term 'link' makes it sound like a chain of organisms which is only valid in respect to looking backwards from already having a conclusion - that's not how it actually occurred in the real world.

Finally, have you seen the fossils? They're not missing.
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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#129  Postby Spearthrower » Nov 20, 2011 6:32 am

missy wrote:Creationinst don't believe in evolution at all. Do you watch the history chanel? Scientists have struggled with that for years. And every now and then they claim they found the missing link. AA theorist claim they found it too.


Instead of the history channel, I studied Human Evolution and Biological Anthropology.

My suggestion to you is that edutainment is not a solid source on which to base claims.



missy wrote:The problem is that our brain went from being pea sized to the current size in a relatively short period of time. My favorite saying by Georgio is "How did we go from sitting in a cave munching on bananas to building pyramids in a few thousand years?" It takes a lot longer than that for a brain to evolve.


Pea sized brains? In humans? What on earth are you talking about?

One candidate ancestor, Australopithecus afarensis had a brain volume of 380–430 cm3 - however, this is a species extant over 3 million years ago. That's not a 'relatively short time'.

Georgio clearly doesn't understand that modern bananas are a more recent product of human agriculture than the idealised caveman he has munching them.

Humans didn't need to evolve a brain from scratch, there's a continuum of ancestral species back hundreds of million years, all of which had brains.
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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#130  Postby Spearthrower » Nov 20, 2011 6:40 am

missy wrote:calilessassie you are an idiot. Humans are not apes.


What the fuck? Now I am going to be mean.

How dare you call someone an idiot and then immediately assert an utterly idiotic claim?

Of course humans are apes - name a single fucking biological distinction.


missy wrote:Yes we may be 95% similar but what's missing is the human genome. In fact, that is what separates us from most other mammals.


:what: :crazy:

What a stupid thing to say. You could equally have said: all that's missing from humans is all the other species' genomes.

Face it missy - you don't actually know what you're talking about - this is a fantastic place to learn if you have an interest in these topics.... but we're just a tad more fact based than your History Channel level of presentation. You realise that programme is made for the lowest common denominator, right?


missy wrote:The human genome only makes up 5% of our dna. I'm sure your highly intelligent scientific friends know that. I am not a creationist. Creationist do not believe that god altered an apes dna to make them intelligent. I suggest you get a life, get off these boards and educate yourself. You are just as bad as the god-did-it creationists. You know nothing outside of what your little mind wants to know.



You are a creationist, of the theistic evolution bent. And your argumentation is just as weak, condescending, and ignorant of basic facts you assert to be true.

As for telling people to educate themselves.... can you please provide some citations for the History Channel programme guide: I am sure we'll all learn a lot more from that than from all this pointless study and reading of scientific journals.
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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#131  Postby Onyx8 » Nov 20, 2011 6:44 am

missy has to be a suicidal sock, no?
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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#132  Postby surreptitious57 » Nov 20, 2011 7:07 am

missy wrote:
calilasseia you are an idiot. Humans are not apes. Yes we may be 95% similar but what's missing is the human genome. In fact, that is what separates us from most other mammals. The human genome only makes up 5% of our dna. I'm sure your highly intelligent scientific friends know that I am not a creationist Creationist do not believe that god altered an apes dna to make them intelligent I suggest you get a life, get off these boards and educate yourself. You are just as bad as the god-did-it creationists. You know nothing outside of what your little mind wants to know


Humans are apes. We are primates
like baboons, gorillas, orang utans and
chimpanzees. We share ninety eight per
cent of our DNA with them, They have forty
eight chromosomes. We have forty six and at
one point we had forty eight also. All this is fact

Cali is the most intelligent contributor here on this
site well as the one of the most prolific so therefore
calling him an idiot is not only wrong but an attack on
him. If you think he is wrong then by all means go ahead
and disprove him. But no attacks on individuals please. Not
because it is against the rules but because it is wrong. End of
I realise it is a relatively mild attack but an ad hom is an ad hom
I think you have an agenda but it would be nice if you just dropped
all that and try to engage with others here. This is a very informative
site with seriously intelligent people. Could learn an awful lot if you wish
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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#133  Postby surreptitious57 » Nov 20, 2011 8:05 am

Calilasseia wrote:
BAD IDEAS EXIST TO BE DESTROYED


You cannot destroy ideas. They are abstract
concepts. The act of destruction is a physical one
Completely ineffective against anything else. Sorry for
being so pedantic as I know what you mean. But I am a firm
believer in the correct application of language. Alright end of rant
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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#134  Postby Rumraket » Nov 20, 2011 8:10 am

missy wrote:calilessassie you are an idiot. Humans are not apes. Yes we may be 95% similar but what's missing is the human genome. In fact, that is what separates us from most other mammals. The human genome only makes up 5% of our dna. I'm sure your highly intelligent scientific friends know that. I am not a creationist. Creationist do not believe that god altered an apes dna to make them intelligent. I suggest you get a life, get off these boards and educate yourself. You are just as bad as the god-did-it creationists. You know nothing outside of what your little mind wants to know.

Who are you and how did your post get to contain such vast quantities of distilled stupid? :lol:
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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#135  Postby Shagz » Nov 20, 2011 9:08 am

missy wrote:calilessassie you are an idiot. Humans are not apes. Yes we may be 95% similar but what's missing is the human genome. In fact, that is what separates us from most other mammals. The human genome only makes up 5% of our dna. I'm sure your highly intelligent scientific friends know that. I am not a creationist. Creationist do not believe that god altered an apes dna to make them intelligent. I suggest you get a life, get off these boards and educate yourself. You are just as bad as the god-did-it creationists. You know nothing outside of what your little mind wants to know.


Dear Missy,

At first I thought you were a troll, because your posts seemed so blatantly misinformed they are laughable. Now, I suspect that you are actually for real. If so, you obviously don't have much experience on internet forums; at least, not a more serious one like this one. I suspect you are very young. My advice, for what it's worth, is you should learn a little humility, admit you know absolutely nothing about this subject, and stop being an ass. If you are truly interested in knowing about the truth of human origins, you should read some posts here and ask some reasonable questions. People will not be down on you if you humbly admit you know nothing and sincerely want to learn more. Good luck.
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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#136  Postby byofrcs » Nov 20, 2011 9:22 am

AFAIK Apes is a term used to describe Hominidae which has all of Chimps, Gorillas and Humans in it and many more (though people prefer "Great Apes" for the one closest to humans).

Our human chromosome 2 is a pretty good indicator that we came later on in the game of life.
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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#137  Postby GenesForLife » Nov 20, 2011 9:51 am

missy wrote:calilessassie you are an idiot. Humans are not apes. Yes we may be 95% similar but what's missing is the human genome.


Nope, what is actually missing in chimpanzees, if you care to pay attention to detail, is genes that are not exactly homologous, and not the human genome as you claim. The discrepancy is easily explained by mutations and gene duplication events.


Here we present a draft genome sequence of the common chimpanzee (Pan troglodytes). Through comparison with the human genome, we have generated a largely complete catalogue of the genetic differences that have accumulated since the human and chimpanzee species diverged from our common ancestor, constituting approximately thirty-five million single-nucleotide changes, five million insertion/deletion events, and various chromosomal rearrangements. We use this catalogue to explore the magnitude and regional variation of mutational forces shaping these two genomes, and the strength of positive and negative selection acting on their genes. In particular, we find that the patterns of evolution in human and chimpanzee protein-coding genes are highly correlated and dominated by the fixation of neutral and slightly deleterious alleles. We also use the chimpanzee genome as an outgroup to investigate human population genetics and identify signatures of selective sweeps in recent human evolution.


Full paper at http://www.genome.gov/Pages/Research/DI ... alysis.pdf


In fact, that is what separates us from most other mammals. The human genome only makes up 5% of our dna.


:lol:

Genomes are the entirety of an organism's hereditary information. Just consider what implications that has for your assertion above, yeah? Secondly, we're not separated from most other mammals any more than those mammals are separated from us, to make claims of taxonomic superiority when there is none is actually some pretty poor thinking.

I'm sure your highly intelligent scientific friends know that. I am not a creationist. Creationist do not believe that god altered an apes dna to make them intelligent. I suggest you get a life, get off these boards and educate yourself. You are just as bad as the god-did-it creationists. You know nothing outside of what your little mind wants to know.


Yada yada waffle argumentum ad hominem
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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#138  Postby ADParker » Nov 20, 2011 9:59 am

missy wrote:calilessassie you are an idiot.

You call us all mean, and then have the unmitigated gall to toss out a direct personal insult?! Which has of course been reported, as it is a blatant violation of the Forum User Agreement.

And you couldn't even get your targets name right. :nono:

missy wrote:Humans are not apes.

Of course they are! Even Wikipedia will tell you that, so how hard would it have been to get your facts right? :roll:

From the Wikipedia page on Apes

Apes are animals, members of the biological superfamily Hominoidea, part of the order Primates. Hominoidea contains two families of living (extant) species:
Hylobatidae consists of four genera and sixteen species of gibbon, including the lar gibbon and the siamang. They are commonly referred to as lesser apes.
Hominidae consists of orangutans, gorillas, common chimpanzees, bonobos and humans. Alternatively, the hominidae family are collectively described as the great apes


missy wrote:Yes we may be 95% similar but what's missing is the human genome.

96% if you are counting each and every nucleotide.
98% if only counting those genes that code for proteins.

And "missing is the human genome"?! This only goes to highlight that you don't even understand what "genome" means! Yet you appear to feel confidant enough to try to come off like an authority on the matter, in front of a number of people that know a damn sight more than you do on the subject, I assure you.

missy wrote:In fact, that is what separates us from most other mammals.

What is? The parts of our genetic make-up that is unique to us? Well of course. The parts of the genetic make-up that is unique to chipmunks is likewise what 'separates' them from all other mammals. :roll:

missy wrote:The human genome only makes up 5% of our dna.

The human genome makes up 100% of our DNA. That is what it is.

A science Primer: WHAT IS A GENOME?

missy wrote:I'm sure your highly intelligent scientific friends know that.

Nope, we/they know the truth of the matter, not your garbled confused attempt.

missy wrote: I am not a creationist.

Whatever. The label doesn't really bother me.

missy wrote:Creationist do not believe that god altered an apes dna to make them intelligent.

Some do, there are many different subsets of creationist out there.

missy wrote:I suggest you get a life, get off these boards and educate yourself.

That's really funny coming from someone who just royally screwed up on the concept of the genome just now! :lol:

missy wrote: You are just as bad as the god-did-it creationists. You know nothing outside of what your little mind wants to know.

If that is all you have, and you have no interest is taking anything on board, then there is really no point in you being here, is there?
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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#139  Postby chairman bill » Nov 20, 2011 10:29 am

Calilasseia wrote:... Or turn up at a full dress parade of Marines wearing a ballerina tutu and diving flippers? ...

Oh I don't know. Some young vision of loveliness, in a tutu & flippers; might go down a treat. The SBS blokes would be particularly taken by the flippers.
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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#140  Postby MrFungus420 » Nov 20, 2011 10:31 am

Katherine wrote:
monkeyboy wrote: we don't have Apache Gunships......


I think Cal has one in his arsenal somewhere! ;)


I don't think he has anything that small in his arsenal...he usually just goes right to the tac-nuke...
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