Mechanical Gears Discovered on Planthopper Insects

Incl. intelligent design, belief in divine creation

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Re: Mechanical Gears Discovered on Planthopper Insects

#41  Postby BlackBart » Dec 28, 2013 2:37 pm

So, Coroama, are we to infer that this 'God' is incapable of creating a system of life that can adapt to it's environment or develop mechanisms such as a gear independently?
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Re: Mechanical Gears Discovered on Planthopper Insects

#42  Postby Coroama » Dec 28, 2013 2:41 pm

BlackBart wrote:So, Coroama, are we to infer that this 'God' is incapable of creating a system of life that can adapt to it's environment


thats called micro evolution.

or develop mechanisms such as a gear independently?


Well, i have just to look at the gear, and intuitively i know, THAT'S DESIGNED.
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Re: Mechanical Gears Discovered on Planthopper Insects

#43  Postby Coroama » Dec 28, 2013 2:43 pm

LucidFlight wrote:Well, there's the wood-boring wasp:


Wood Boring Wasps Inspire New Neurosurg[ery] Probe
Image

British scientists are mimicking the function of wood-boring wasps to create a specialized probe for performing brain surgeries. The wasps use ovipositors, or specialized shafts that move counter to each other, to drill into trees while causing little damage to the tissue of the plant.

[Full article.]


you see. Gods designs top human inventions by far..... thats why we learn from nature....... ;)
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Re: Mechanical Gears Discovered on Planthopper Insects

#44  Postby Coroama » Dec 28, 2013 2:45 pm

Bribase wrote:
And read in the context of what I wrote, you would understand that I'm talking from a standpoint of evolution. Do you understand what a selection pressure[/url] is, Coroama?


Well, i think so. And as we are at it : Rumrakets website has fallen short to explain how genome information can be added through natural selection. If you have a convincing scientific paper, please link to it, so we can have a closer look at it.....
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Re: Mechanical Gears Discovered on Planthopper Insects

#45  Postby Bribase » Dec 28, 2013 2:51 pm

Coroama wrote:
BlackBart wrote:So, Coroama, are we to infer that this 'God' is incapable of creating a system of life that can adapt to it's environment


thats called micro evolution.

or develop mechanisms such as a gear independently?


Well, i have just to look at the gear, and intuitively i know, THAT'S DESIGNED.


You could also apply the same intuition to infer that the earth is flat, fixed and the planets and stars revolve around it. The evidence of other mechanisms would demonstrate that you are incorrect.

As I told you in my previous posts, if you want to compete with evolution as an explanation you're going to need to provide us with an alternative mechanism by which these structures arose in the natural world.
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Re: Mechanical Gears Discovered on Planthopper Insects

#46  Postby BlackBart » Dec 28, 2013 2:57 pm

Coroama wrote:
BlackBart wrote:So, Coroama, are we to infer that this 'God' is incapable of creating a system of life that can adapt to it's environment


thats called micro evolution.



No, that's evolution. But we could call it a cream bun if we wanted, but it still wouldn't answer the question that you've just clumsily tried to avoid.


Well, i have just to look at the gear, and intuitively i know, THAT'S DESIGNED.


Your 'intuition' is evidence of nothing. Could your God do it or not?
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Re: Mechanical Gears Discovered on Planthopper Insects

#47  Postby Scar » Dec 28, 2013 3:07 pm

Coroama wrote:
BlackBart wrote:So, Coroama, are we to infer that this 'God' is incapable of creating a system of life that can adapt to it's environment


thats called micro evolution.

or develop mechanisms such as a gear independently?


Well, i have just to look at the gear, and intuitively i know, THAT'S DESIGNED.


I intuitively know your intuiton is wrong. So where does that leave us?
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Re: Mechanical Gears Discovered on Planthopper Insects

#48  Postby Bribase » Dec 28, 2013 3:07 pm

Coroama wrote:
Bribase wrote:
And read in the context of what I wrote, you would understand that I'm talking from a standpoint of evolution. Do you understand what a selection pressure[/url] is, Coroama?


Well, i think so. And as we are at it : Rumrakets website has fallen short to explain how genome information can be added through natural selection. If you have a convincing scientific paper, please link to it, so we can have a closer look at it.....


Natural selection is a reductive process, why the fuck should we expect that particular component of evolutionary biology to add information? Shall we add that to your list of basic terms that you do not understand?

The answer to what adds information was already supplied to you in the other thread. You dismissed it out of hand and Rumraket backed it up with evidence. This is sleight of hand dressed up to look like you have a point, premised on the vague hope that I don't read other threads.
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Re: Mechanical Gears Discovered on Planthopper Insects

#49  Postby Calilasseia » Dec 28, 2013 3:42 pm

Oh dear, he's brought up the "I know it's designed because it looks designed" canard.

Here's a simple test.

Which Of These Rocks Is Designed.jpg
Which Of These Rocks Is Designed.jpg (114.59 KiB) Viewed 1942 times


One of these rocks is "designed", in the sense of being a Palaeolothic stone tool fashioned by human hand. The rest are simply naturally weathered rocks. Can you tell which one is the "designed" rock?
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Re: Mechanical Gears Discovered on Planthopper Insects

#50  Postby Scar » Dec 28, 2013 3:54 pm

Calilasseia wrote:Oh dear, he's brought up the "I know it's designed because it looks designed" canard.

Here's a simple test.

Which Of These Rocks Is Designed.jpg


One of these rocks is "designed", in the sense of being a Palaeolothic stone tool fashioned by human hand. The rest are simply naturally weathered rocks. Can you tell which one is the "designed" rock?



If he were consistent, he'd claim that all of them are designed. That he fails to realize the problem with that is another story.
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Re: Mechanical Gears Discovered on Planthopper Insects

#51  Postby Coroama » Dec 28, 2013 4:10 pm

Bribase wrote:http://www.lehigh.edu/bio/pdf/Behe/QRB_paper.pdf
The answer to what adds information was already supplied to you in the other thread.


Of course you readily accepted it as a valid answer, since it fits your preconceived world view. You were not even a little skeptic about the paper, and made a research on google, to see if it provided a valid answer, isnt it ??

Where did natural selection and random mutation produce functional, information-rich genes and proteins? what changed, or what information was gained through the experiment ? What kind of specifice information was gained ?

As Behe points our, the experiment showed decreasing gene activity :

http://www.lehigh.edu/bio/pdf/Behe/QRB_paper.pdf
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Re: Mechanical Gears Discovered on Planthopper Insects

#52  Postby Rumraket » Dec 28, 2013 4:39 pm

Coroama wrote:
BlackBart wrote:So, Coroama, are we to infer that this 'God' is incapable of creating a system of life that can adapt to it's environment


thats called micro evolution.

No, it's called natural selection.

Microevolution is defined as evolution below the species level.

But natural selection isn't limited to microevolutionary change.

Coroama wrote:
BlackBart wrote:or develop mechanisms such as a gear independently?

Well, i have just to look at the gear, and intuitively i know, THAT'S DESIGNED.

Thank you for telling us about what you blindly believe. Intuition isn't knowledge. Yours even less so.
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Re: Mechanical Gears Discovered on Planthopper Insects

#53  Postby Rumraket » Dec 28, 2013 4:45 pm

Coroama wrote:
Bribase wrote:http://www.lehigh.edu/bio/pdf/Behe/QRB_paper.pdf
The answer to what adds information was already supplied to you in the other thread.


Of course you readily accepted it as a valid answer, since it fits your preconceived world view. You were not even a little skeptic about the paper, and made a research on google, to see if it provided a valid answer, isnt it ??

Where did natural selection and random mutation produce functional, information-rich genes and proteins? what changed, or what information was gained through the experiment ? What kind of specifice information was gained ?

Among other things, multiple tandem duplications of key enzymes involved in citrate metabolism.

Oh by the way, citrate metabolism was gained.

Several hundred beneficial mutations were gained. Improved fitness was gained.

Coroama wrote:As Behe points our, the experiment showed decreasing gene activity :

http://www.lehigh.edu/bio/pdf/Behe/QRB_paper.pdf

Irrelevant. Citrate metabolism still evolved, the fact that some genes were downregulated doesn't make this evidence go away.
Key enzymes involved in citrate metabolism were duplicated multiple times, the fact that some genes were downregulated doesn't make this evidence go away. Several hundred beneficial mutations resulting in significantly increased fitness for the organism still evolved, the fact that some genes were downregulated doesn't make this evidence go away.

You can bitch and whine and move the goalposts all you want. Evolution happened, beneficial mutations happened, a new metabolic substrate was taken advantage of, natural selection was empirically proved once again. None of this evidence is going to disappear, no matter what kind of spin you or Michael Behe tries to put on it to downplay it in your religiously biased mind.
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Re: Mechanical Gears Discovered on Planthopper Insects

#54  Postby Rumraket » Dec 28, 2013 4:46 pm

Calilasseia wrote:Oh dear, he's brought up the "I know it's designed because it looks designed" canard.

Here's a simple test.

Which Of These Rocks Is Designed.jpg


One of these rocks is "designed", in the sense of being a Palaeolothic stone tool fashioned by human hand. The rest are simply naturally weathered rocks. Can you tell which one is the "designed" rock?

:this:

So Coroama. Put your "intuition" to work. :whistle:
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Re: Mechanical Gears Discovered on Planthopper Insects

#55  Postby Rumraket » Dec 28, 2013 4:48 pm

Coroama wrote:
Bribase wrote:
And read in the context of what I wrote, you would understand that I'm talking from a standpoint of evolution. Do you understand what a selection pressure[/url] is, Coroama?


Well, i think so. And as we are at it : Rumrakets website has fallen short to explain how genome information can be added through natural selection.

No it hasn't. It directly explains how beneficial mutations, such as gene duplications, are added to the genomes of populations of living organisms through natural selection due to competition for resources. Beneficial mutations that eventually led to the ability to metabolize a new substrate, besides also leading to massive increases in fitness.
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Re: Mechanical Gears Discovered on Planthopper Insects

#56  Postby SafeAsMilk » Dec 28, 2013 4:52 pm

Really? He's quoting Behe? :rofl:
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Re: Mechanical Gears Discovered on Planthopper Insects

#57  Postby Coroama » Dec 28, 2013 5:15 pm

Calilasseia wrote:Oh dear, he's brought up the "I know it's designed because it looks designed" canard.


Canard mein hintern.

http://creation.com/incredible-kinesin

A typical kinesin has two ‘arms’ on one end (that hold onto the cargo) and two ‘legs’ on the other end that walk along the microtubule, pulling the cargo toward its final destination. In a sense they are like the ‘postman’ delivering mail inside cells.

This is a complex coordinated effort, as something must first access the creature’s DNA library, unzip it at the exact location needed for the specific information required (for whatever part is to be manufactured), create a duplicate of the information for the part and deliver it to the factory. (See animation, below left.)

Then another organelle in the cell (called the Golgi apparatus) packages the needed part by wrapping it in a bag (called a vesicle) and imprints the ‘address’ where the part is to be delivered in the cell onto the outside of the vesicle ‘parcel’.

Then a kinesin is summoned. It picks up the parcel and ‘walks’ along microtubule roadways in the cell and delivers the parcel where it is needed. (Many different types of kinesin [and kinesin-related proteins] with different specifications and functions have been discovered in various organisms from yeast to humans. The above example was simply an example of a ‘common’ task.)




It doesnt take much brainpower to understand, that is designed.... actually , it inspires awe, its simply amazing what we discover in the cells.

Only blinded wishful thinking naturalists which do not want to acknoledge God at any cost are unable to grasp this.......
Last edited by Coroama on Dec 28, 2013 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mechanical Gears Discovered on Planthopper Insects

#58  Postby Rumraket » Dec 28, 2013 5:17 pm

Coroama wrote:
Calilasseia wrote:Oh dear, he's brought up the "I know it's designed because it looks designed" canard.


Canard mein hintern.

http://creation.com/incredible-kinesin

A typical kinesin has two ‘arms’ on one end (that hold onto the cargo) and two ‘legs’ on the other end that walk along the microtubule, pulling the cargo toward its final destination. In a sense they are like the ‘postman’ delivering mail inside cells.

This is a complex coordinated effort, as something must first access the creature’s DNA library, unzip it at the exact location needed for the specific information required (for whatever part is to be manufactured), create a duplicate of the information for the part and deliver it to the factory. (See animation, below left.)

Then another organelle in the cell (called the Golgi apparatus) packages the needed part by wrapping it in a bag (called a vesicle) and imprints the ‘address’ where the part is to be delivered in the cell onto the outside of the vesicle ‘parcel’.

Then a kinesin is summoned. It picks up the parcel and ‘walks’ along microtubule roadways in the cell and delivers the parcel where it is needed. (Many different types of kinesin [and kinesin-related proteins] with different specifications and functions have been discovered in various organisms from yeast to humans. The above example was simply an example of a ‘common’ task.)




It doesnt take much brainpower to understand, that is designed....

Only blinded wishful thinking naturalists which do not want to acknoledge God at any cost are unable to grasp this.......

Point out the designed rock using your brilliant, design-detecting intuition. :whistle:
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Re: Mechanical Gears Discovered on Planthopper Insects

#59  Postby Regina » Dec 28, 2013 5:19 pm

So which of the rocks is designed? You are the expert, after all.
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Re: Mechanical Gears Discovered on Planthopper Insects

#60  Postby Coroama » Dec 28, 2013 5:19 pm

Rumraket wrote:
Point out the designed rock using your brilliant, design-detecting intuition. :whistle:


Of course, i can design a rock, that looks exactly the same as normal rocks.... your argument is superfluous.

Romans 1.21 :roll:
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