I have a problem with my family. They are extremely religious/roman catolics (at least my parents and younger sister which is 12 years old). They are also superstitious and believe in bioenergy, astral projection and other silly stuff. They dont even believe in evolution, but that I know I cant help anymore. What I want you to do, is to help me find the way to keep my sister rational and normal-nondeluded-minded. Do you have any experience in anything similar? I think I have had success in putting a bug in her ear about religion, bible and all that cr*p. Im 18 years old which means I cant talk to my parents because the end of discussion is always " You are young, you'll get it one day." It also means that I am leaving my house for a few years to go to university. I will be coming back once in a month or so, but I need to do something, I feel like an asshole while staying quiet and doing nothing. Please guys, help.

Take her to lots of museums and stuff and let her see the evidence for evolution for herself. Also get her interested in science and explain things scientifically to her to the best of your ability. Imo, the best approach is to let her start questioning the bible on her own, not from anybody telling her to.

Until you're out of Uni, I would recommend not pissing your parents off too much. That generally involves keeping the mouth shut about religion opinions around them.

As far as your little sister, does she like to read? An indirect way to help plant doubts IMO would be to get her some novels that have god(s) that do exist. By having something to compare reality to, it can become a bit more obvious that a world that has god(s) would have different rules than ours.

Also, encourage any flicker of science interest. Help her with her homework, answer any questions. If she does like science, get her some "popularized" science books that will show her how the world works. Don't dumb it down.

Keep us updated, and welcome to the forum!!

@HoG : I am taking her to a museum next week("Bodies revealed"). The problem is that I live in a small town in Croatia and it's hard to go to museum since I have no money and no museums near my home.

@Rawnaeris: It's hard for me to stay cool and all that while they woo-woo around, but I will try to stay as calm as possible.
She doesnt know if she loves science because next year will be the first year in her education to have chemistry, physics, biology etc. The problem is, I'm leaving, and wont be able to help her much with homeworks and stuff. She likes mathematics though, which I like very much =)

Keep writing, and thanks for the welcome =)

The best thing I can recommend is to call home often, and talk to her as much as you can. Let her know that you love and care about her. And keep in mind that the most important part is that she thinks logically--even logical people can [unfortunately] still be religious and still believe in a god, but at least if she's rational, she won't let it dictate her life. She might not love science, and she might not be an atheist, but you will always be sisters.

mmmcheezy wrote:, but you will always be sisters.

Brother and sister

My bad, sorry!
I keep making that mistake--and I should know better! It happened to me all the time at the old forum when my avatar was a pizza!

Take your sister to Krapina* and tell her that the museum was blessed by a Catholic priest (not joking - I can dig out the reference if you wish). That should sort out evolution (anyway, the Catholic Church officially accepts it as well as other established scientific theories, so that could be a good starting point?).

Also, can you get your sister to visit you where you study (Zagreb?). A change of environment might do her good. And as others have said - talk to her, encourage her to read, try to provide her with stimulating reading material. You don't have to convert her to atheism, just encourage her to think for herself and not to be afraid of questioning established "truths".

*a Neanderthal site in Croatia, with a brand new (I think) museum of evolution.

Hi b00rek,

I agree with what everyone says here, I think books would be a great way forward for your sister, especially as you wont be around. You could buy her interesting books ( you can get them really cheaply from amazon) and send them to her when you are at uni. It would be a lovely gift for her from you. Personalize them by writing on the inside of the cover that way they may become sentimental to her and she will perhaps want to read them because they are from you, her brother.

This book is amazing I bought it for my daughter, it has lift the flap pages/ letter and photo pull outs and loads of really fun stuff in it. It really is a treasure to keep forever!
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Charles-Darwin- ... 745&sr=1-1. If her english is not too good, you could read it to her when you visit!

And as others have said - talk to her, encourage her to read, try to provide her with stimulating reading material. You don't have to convert her to atheism, just encourage her to think for herself and not to be afraid of questioning established "truths".

This is what I'm doing with my son. I'm not trying to "convert" him to atheism. However, I do provide him with as much information as I can get about dinosaurs (kids just love dinosaurs) and the history of earth. But I don't force the issues. I provide the info and eventually he'll have to decide for himself.

@Katja : I know about Krapina, I've been there 2 times. Actually, I think they are going on a field trip there in 8th grade (14yo). I am encouraging her to think by herself and I'm certainly not trying to convert her, she will figure it out herself (as did I and so was my older brother).

@Jain & Katja: Thank you for the advices for buying her books, I will do so, and especially the thing about personalizing it by writing on the covers, I wouldn't think of that myself
It's pretty hard to find good books for kids in Croatia, so I hope her english will get better.


The problem with me is that after opening my eyes, I cannot stand that people still believe this things. I used to think that way, and now I'm raging around when others do. I know it sounds crazy, but I need to calm down ASAP or the effect could be negative.

Thank you guys once again =)

One thing that could happen if you did rage about it would be an almighty argument with family! Not a nice situation to be in. I have done it a few times with family and friends. Best to not to let that happen! But being calm and educational for your sister would be a great option! IMHO

Yeah Jain, I know all that, Im sure raging wont help. But the thing is, I cannot help myself, but Im trying to. I will get better with training. I'm also angry with other converted atheists/agnostics which go by the "rule": " Ignorance is bliss. " I cannot do that, thats what makes me feel awful bad.

Just to show you how rationalism is treated in my town, a short story follows:

-friend of mine whose parents are agnostic aka he can think for himself
-we are in public school and forced to go to catholic classes (not forced by a law, but society)
-on one of these classes he says: "I thought ( evolution,evolution,evolution, etc.)"
-nun says: " No, dont you read the bible?"
- he got an F for being real

Now the point is, that was when we were like 11. WTF is going on in a childs mind when sth like this happens? Luckily, his parents were rational and told him whats going on so he got through these classes by pretending everything was cool.
I hope shit like this wont happen in my sisters case.

b00rek wrote:
The problem with me is that after opening my eyes, I cannot stand that people still believe this things. I used to think that way, and now I'm raging around when others do. I know it sounds crazy, but I need to calm down ASAP or the effect could be negative.

In fact, you assess your situation very clearly despite your (understandable) anger, so I'm sure you will manage to avoid "negative effects". Think of your sister - if you had a blazing row with your parents, would you still be able to give her the kind of support we've been talking about here? Better you vent your feelings here.

Your sister's English will get better and better the more she gets to practice ... in the meantime, maybe other Croatian members of RatSkep can recommend books available in Croatian?

Oh, and about Krapina ... the footnote was for the others not you! I know you have this arcane knowledge Anyway, I'm glad Croatian schoolkids get to see it. I want to go too!

I would like to go too, I haven't been there since my 8th grade and the museum was reopened in february this year so it must be beautiful now.

I came up with an idea. Maybe I should give her Sagan's Cosmos to watch. I used to love it and still do.

b00rek wrote:I came up with an idea. Maybe I should give her Sagan's Cosmos to watch. I used to love it and still do.

That's a wonderful idea! I got it for Xmas from my father.

I havent seen it! I would love to though!

If you get her Cosmos, maybe it could even help her with learning English, using captioning. I have read research that motivating TV shows with captioning can be very helpful in language learning.

I'm Croatian by origin but the only possible Croatian language book I can think of for you is a set of encyclopaedias called Svjet Oko Nas (The World Around Us). They contain brilliant illustrations and I'm sure would be inspiring for any child. Although the ones I have are very old and I'm not even sure they are in print.

Or failing that, use the internet to get access to materials.

Where in Croatia do you live?