Animavore wrote:So... What did we think of that?

GoT is getting predictable and a bit dull? And the whole Dorne/Sand Snakes storyline seems to have been mostly pointless?

Got to see Missandei's boobies, though. Best part of the episode.

WayOfTheDodo wrote:

Animavore wrote:So... What did we think of that?

GoT is getting predictable and a bit dull? And the whole Dorne/Sand Snakes storyline seems to have been mostly pointless?

Just like the Asha Greyjoy plot apparently.

I think Theon will paddle out to sea and find Gendry who will forge him a metal cock and they'll row off happily ever after.

It's ridiculous to me that Euron could sail into the right ship, and without any warning of any kind, and that Yara had no idea they were anywhere near. Maybe if there was magic involved.

crank wrote:I think Theon will paddle out to sea and find Gendry who will forge him a metal cock and they'll row off happily ever after.

It's ridiculous to me that Euron could sail into the right ship, and without any warning of any kind, and that Yara had no idea they were anywhere near. Maybe if there was magic involved.

It is ridiculous to me that people keep sailing all around a wartorn country without expecting to and encountering enemy ships.

Animavore wrote:So... What did we think of that?

Okay, this is my second viewing of episode 2. Some thoughts as I go...

- Nice cinematography and lighting with the storm at Dragonstone. A bit of foreshadowing for Euron ("I AM the storm, brother") making an appearance later?

- The Daenerys and Varys scene: a mutual lack of outright trust, which seems wise. Dany makes the point that Varys favoured Viserys for the throne - did the Spider know that Viserys was weak, cruel, and stupid? Meanwhile Tyrion understands the advantage of having someone like Varys on board, tries to build bridges. Varys claims his true loyalty is to the people of Westeros. Is he sincere? Dany calls up associations of Aerys as she promises to burn him alive if he betrays her.

- Melisandre is cautious about prophecies and visions now. She could be quoting GRRM as she says, "prophecies are dangerous things." She's much changed since she was with Stannis. It'll be interesting to see if she meets Ser Davos again, and what he might do. As far as he's concerned, she's never really been punished for the awful murder of Shireen, methinks.

- Speaking of Davos... "If the army of the dead make it past the wall, do we have enough men to fight them?" Without a proper means (dragonglass weapons etc), millions of men wouldn't be enough. Every death grows the enemy's number. Imagine the Night King raising the fallen, mid-battle. Hopeless.

- Cersei the protector! She's saying all the right things, but Randyll Tarly has no illusions about her. He's there because he knows what she can do to those who defy her. Beyond that, his skepticism and contempt seem barely concealed. He's thinking about the reputation of House Tarly, but his question about how to stop the dragons shows he's also keen to be on the winning side. Jamie does a good job of winning him around, appealing to his pride and self interest.

- We see how far Jorah's grey scale has progressed. Nasty.

- Balerion the Dread's the skull is the size of a couple of buses!

- I like that GoT isn't going with invincible dragons. That weapon Qyburn shows Cersei looks vicious. Of course, a dragon will usually be a moving target, and they're pretty fast in the air.

- More planning in the war room at Dragonstone. Spoiler alert, those plans are all about to go to shit.

- Olenna: Ignore Tyrion and be a dragon. If Dany takes that to heart too much, we end up with Aerys v2.0, just another tyrant, and perceived as a foreign invader, uniting everyone against her. Or just queen of the ashes.

- Missandei and Grey Worm's love story.

- I have to say, though: Missandei is no longer the hottest woman in Essos.

- But that's only because she's no longer in Essos. Now she's the hottest woman in Westeros.

- Jim Broadbent's Archmaester might be a promising character, but with only 5 more episodes left this season, I don't know how much we'll even see of him. Oh, why couldn't you give us a full ten episodes, HBO? The sense, that Thomas mentioned, of things being rushed... they've so little time left to wrap everything up before (I imagine) all out war against the White Walkers in season 8.

- Sam and Jorah. Hmm, apparently, pulling off tissue infected with grey scale is every bit as painful and horrible to look at as you'd expect. Who knew?

- Ugh, that transition from puss-oozing flesh to someone eating a pie was even more disgusting than Sam's shit montage last episode. Please, D&D. Just no. Please.

- Hot pie! Frey pie allusions, too.

- I'd hoped Arya might change her mind and head north instead of going after Cersei; and so it is.

- Jon is obviously right to risk travelling to Dragonstone. Without that dragonglass and/or some helpful dragons, Westeros is doomed. Not much point staying there as King in the North if the North is about to become a land of wights. Nevertheless, he alienates almost everyone with his decision.

- "You're abandoning your people!" A bit of an exaggeration, Sansa.

- Sansa has the North. Baelish prepares a campaign to drip poison in her ear. Jon chokes Baelish in the crypt. Baelish eyes Sansa, creepily.

- Nymeria is all grown up!

- Come to think of it, we haven't seen Ghost for a bit. Where is he? Will he be as big as Nymeria, by now?

- Arya's "it's not you" line to Nymeria threw me a bit. Here's the explanation. http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 56401.html

- Gods, those Sand Snakes are annoying.

- Poor Theon.

- The sea battle was short but well-executed - chaotic, flaming, and bloody.

- I'm guessing that some people will love Euron's over-the-top performances while others will loathe them. I'm enjoying him this season. He's a good fighter, too, it appears.

- Some Sand Snakes are down. Meh.

- Yara, the badass, jumps Euron from a great height, but she ultimately loses the one-on-one combat.

- Now's not the time to become Reek again, Theon! Oh, he did.

- At least he'll live on, though. I'm just not sure he'll want to, now. Poor Theon.

- Aaaand... what a disaster. The fleet is reduced to flaming wreckage, along with Dany's/Tyrion's Plan A.

theropod wrote:Ashes it is then.

I feel like this episode I'm going to see Dany prove myself correct in that she is a horrible leader and really unsuitable for the throne. I hope she loses everything.

Thomas Eshuis wrote:

crank wrote:I think Theon will paddle out to sea and find Gendry who will forge him a metal cock and they'll row off happily ever after.

It's ridiculous to me that Euron could sail into the right ship, and without any warning of any kind, and that Yara had no idea they were anywhere near. Maybe if there was magic involved.

It is ridiculous to me that people keep sailing all around a wartorn country without expecting to and encountering enemy ships.

I think it is likely that Theon and Yara were betrayed by ships in their own fleet.

Matthew Shute wrote:

Animavore wrote:So... What did we think of that?

Okay, this is my second viewing of episode 2. Some thoughts as I go...

- The Daenerys and Varys scene: a mutual lack of outright trust, which seems wise. Dany makes the point that Varys favoured Viserys for the throne - did the Spider know that Viserys was weak, cruel, and stupid? Meanwhile Tyrion understands the advantage of having someone like Varys on board, tries to build bridges. Varys claims his true loyalty is to the people of Westeros. Is he sincere? Dany calls up associations of Aerys as she promises to burn him alive if he betrays her.

This scene felt to strongly to me like they were thinking: "We need to adresses Varys changing loyalties all the time, so let's just get that out of the way."
I mean she accepted him before they even got to Westeros and now all of a sudden she brings this up.

Matthew Shute wrote:- Cersei the protector! She's saying all the right things, but Randyll Tarly has no illusions about her. He's there because he knows what she can do to those who defy her. Beyond that, his skepticism and contempt seem barely concealed. He's thinking about the reputation of House Tarly, but his question about how to stop the dragons shows he's also keen to be on the winning side. Jamie does a good job of winning him around, appealing to his pride and self interest.

i don't think we got confirmation of that, but I could be misremembering.

Matthew Shute wrote:- We see how far Jorah's grey scale has progressed. Nasty.

It looks like he's been covered all over his body with scabs of blood.

Matthew Shute wrote:- Balerion the Dread's the skull is the size of a couple of buses!

A shame what they did to it though...

Matthew Shute wrote:- I like that GoT isn't going with invincible dragons.

You'd have to be a special kind of dunce of a writer to not realise what problem that would be for the plot.

Matthew Shute wrote:- More planning in the war room at Dragonstone. Spoiler alert, those plans are all about to go to shit.

Yep, expected as much, just not in the way it turned out.

Matthew Shute wrote:- Olenna: Ignore Tyrion and be a dragon.

Rather stupid black and white thinking of her, reminiscent of her views on commoners vs nobility.

If Dany takes that to heart too much, we end up with Aerys v2.0, just another tyrant, and perceived as a foreign invader, uniting everyone against her. Or just queen of the ashes.

Matthew Shute wrote:- Missandei and Grey Worm's love story.

Very tastefully done.

Matthew Shute wrote:- Jim Broadbent's Archmaester might be a promising character, but with only 5 more episodes left this season, I don't know how much we'll even see of him.

So far, despite him being an interesting character, I do feel it's been a bit of a waste of a great actor.

Matthew Shute wrote:Oh, why couldn't you give us a full ten episodes, HBO? The sense, that Thomas mentioned, of things being rushed... they've so little time left to wrap everything up before (I imagine) all out war against the White Walkers in season 8.

Matthew Shute wrote:- Sam and Jorah. Hmm, apparently, pulling off tissue infected with grey scale is every bit as painful and horrible to look at as you'd expect. Who knew?

Kudos for not taking the easy/childfriendly way of not actually showing the procedure.

Matthew Shute wrote:- I'd hoped Arya might change her mind and head north instead of going after Cersei; and so it is.

Maybe I missed it, but I don't get what has motivated that change of course.

Matthew Shute wrote:- Jon is obviously right to risk travelling to Dragonstone. Without that dragonglass and/or some helpful dragons, Westeros is doomed. Not much point staying there as King in the North if the North is about to become a land of wights. Nevertheless, he alienates almost everyone with his decision.

I'd say that's more shortsighted of the others than of John.

Matthew Shute wrote:- "You're abandoning your people!" A bit of an exaggeration, Sansa.

Pretty much in character though.

Matthew Shute wrote:- Gods, those Sand Snakes are annoying.

Then this episode should make you happy innit?

Matthew Shute wrote:- The sea battle was short but well-executed - chaotic, flaming, and bloody.

Funny what immediately sprang to mind for me was:
"Fighting! Flames! Jump cuts! Excitement!"
- Cinemasins

Matthew Shute wrote:- I'm guessing that some people will love Euron's over-the-top performances while others will loathe them. I'm enjoying him this season. He's a good fighter, too, it appears.

I don't loathe him, but I do think he'd have been better had been less so.

scott1328 wrote:

Thomas Eshuis wrote:

crank wrote:I think Theon will paddle out to sea and find Gendry who will forge him a metal cock and they'll row off happily ever after.

It's ridiculous to me that Euron could sail into the right ship, and without any warning of any kind, and that Yara had no idea they were anywhere near. Maybe if there was magic involved.

It is ridiculous to me that people keep sailing all around a wartorn country without expecting to and encountering enemy ships.

I think it is likely that Theon and Yara were betrayed by ships in their own fleet.

Could be, in this instance, but my comment was more about the series in general.

Overall, I liked it more than the first episode. Lots of exposition, but this time it served a purpose. And the plot advanced.

The scenes with Jon and his bannermen are getting repetitive, as well as the whole 'we need more men' shtick. I'm glad he's leaving Winterfell.

What is Melisandre's endgame? How many 'promised princes' is she going to follow? Dany's council is getting crowded.

Speaking of counsel: I don't like the new 'burn them all' Olenna.

Damn you, Reek. Again.

Best line of the episode: "No, it's not you". A callback to season 1, as Matthew pointed out.

Spinozasgalt wrote:Well, we know what the gift is now.

I'm glad they didn't go down that route. Magic objects are the worst fantasy trope.

Thomas Eshuis wrote:All felt a little bit rushed imo.

I agree, the battle was handled poorly. Too much shaky cam, and It felt sped up. Poor direction overall. Also, I'm somewhat confused. Were the Unsullied on board? I haven't seen them.

WayOfTheDodo wrote:And the whole Dorne/Sand Snakes storyline seems to have been mostly pointless?

I'll never understand it. The original Dorne storyline revolved around Doran. The scripts were written, some scenes might have been shot already. And then all of a sudden D&D changed their minds and decided to kill off Doran. And for what? It's not like they had any use for the Sand Snakes. I wonder what the actresses think of all this. They were in season 6 for 3 minutes, and now in season 7 for 2 minutes.

WayOfTheDodo wrote:GoT is getting predictable and a bit dull?

About that: I wish D&D didn't treat their audience like morons. Ooh, Littlefinger is going to betray Jon, did you catch that??? Ooh, Cersei has a weapon. She's going to a kill a dragon!!! Yes, thank you D&D, you might as well tell us how the whole show ends.

WayOfTheDodo wrote:Got to see Missandei's boobies, though. Best part of the episode.

When Jon's council were saying not to trust the Targaryens, why didn't he think to mention that he served alongside Aemon Targaryen at the Night's Watch?

Matthew Shute wrote:- Ugh, that transition from puss-oozing flesh to someone eating a pie was even more disgusting than Sam's shit montage last episode. Please, D&D. Just no. Please.

Best transition scene ever.

Pulsar wrote:

Speaking of counsel: I don't like the new 'burn them all' Olenna.

I think that's supposed to be the result of her losing her grandchildren.
But I prefered the old Olenna.

Pulsar wrote:

Thomas Eshuis wrote:All felt a little bit rushed imo.

I agree, the battle was handled poorly. Too much shaky cam, and It felt sped up. Poor direction overall. Also, I'm somewhat confused. Were the Unsullied on board? I haven't seen them.

They should not be, as Asha was supposed to be escorting the ladies to Dorne, if I am not mistaken.

Pulsar wrote:

WayOfTheDodo wrote:And the whole Dorne/Sand Snakes storyline seems to have been mostly pointless?

I'll never understand it. The original Dorne storyline revolved around Doran. The scripts were written, some scenes might have been shot already. And then all of a sudden D&D changed their minds and decided to kill off Doran. And for what? It's not like they had any use for the Sand Snakes. I wonder what the actresses think of all this. They were in season 6 for 3 minutes, and now in season 7 for 2 minutes.

Another example of wasting a great actor, imo.

Pulsar wrote:

WayOfTheDodo wrote:GoT is getting predictable and a bit dull?

About that: I wish D&D didn't treat their audience like morons. Ooh, Littlefinger is going to betray Jon, did you catch that??? Ooh, Cersei has a weapon. She's going to a kill a dragon!!! Yes, thank you D&D, you might as well tell us how the whole show ends.

I keep reading this like 'Dungeons&Dragons'.

Animavore wrote:When Jon's council were saying not to trust the Targaryens, why didn't he think to mention that he served alongside Aemon Targaryen at the Night's Watch?

Because I don't think that'd mattered much. Aeamon is/was pretty much a non-existent character and player in Westeros. Am aged maester of the Night's Watch.

Animavore wrote:

Matthew Shute wrote:- Ugh, that transition from puss-oozing flesh to someone eating a pie was even more disgusting than Sam's shit montage last episode. Please, D&D. Just no. Please.

Best transition scene ever.

This is kinda true. It took me a moment to even realise we'd transitioned.

I think, after that scene in King's Landing with Jaime and Tarly, that Olenna will be next to go. Dany has too many allies for Cersei to have much of a chance, so I expect them to be thinned out. And that scene with Dany came across very much as, "Here's my final bit of advice." Hopefully not, but I have the dread feeling.

A man looks at a girl's escapades with an exasperated frown. So now a girl's yearning for family is greater than a girl's hatred for the Lannister queen who murdered her family? A girl should be no one and pursue vengeance. A girl should take Nymeria's example, the direwolf has wisely become no one. Or, a girl could oscillate between states; be "no one" when a mark needs to be taken out, and "Arya Stark of Winterfell" when in close proximity to a family member.

Cercei Power-Is-Power Lannister, did stupid things like reinstating the Faith Militant which led to the wild-firing of the High Sparrow and eradication of the Tyrell dynasty. She needlessly destroyed the Lannister-Tyrell alliance. For once though, she was her father's daughter. She managed to sic Euron on her enemies. It's ON between the Dragon Queen's army and Euron's Ironborn. Cercei could even spurn Euron's advances. Where's he gonna go? Whatever happens, even if his fleet is destroyed, he will still take out some of Dany's army which means; advantage Cercei.

I expected Qyburn to conjure up something to neutralize the dragons, or the war could be over quickly.

The Grey Worm-Missandei sex scene led to lots of discussions about pillars and stones. People are curious if it's just the pillar that is taken or the stones too. I think the pillar is gone but the stones are present or the Unsullied would be too testosterone deprived to build muscle and their aggressiveness would suffer too. Grey Worm will be off to battle soon… and gets a treat…I fear his days are numbered…

scott1328 wrote:

Thomas Eshuis wrote:

crank wrote:I think Theon will paddle out to sea and find Gendry who will forge him a metal cock and they'll row off happily ever after.

It's ridiculous to me that Euron could sail into the right ship, and without any warning of any kind, and that Yara had no idea they were anywhere near. Maybe if there was magic involved.

It is ridiculous to me that people keep sailing all around a wartorn country without expecting to and encountering enemy ships.

I think it is likely that Theon and Yara were betrayed by ships in their own fleet.

That's a possibility, but in those situations, you've got multiple people on every ship who are lookouts, and it's an incredibly important job.. It was dark, they have to have some lighting or they'd be running into each other. And it''s hundreds of ship. How did Euron find the right ship?

Have to get these off my chest: First, who the fuck is going to rely on a whip for a weapon in a ship-board fight? No, not even worth carrying.

And anyone thinking Theon acted cowardly suffers from too much American movie watching and general folklore BS. How is deciding to jump overboard and possibly saving yourself and your sister cowardly when the alternative is to kill yourself and your sister? It would be as stupid as Jon's going out in the middle of the battlefield to save the already doomed Rickon. Jon should have been killed in that scene, it was only luck that saved him, the kind of luck the writer's pen delivered. And FFS, jumping into the sea in the middle of a huge sea battle? How safe do you think that is?

They should have known exactly where Euron was, he posed an existential threat, Dany should have been off at least once a day to check on his position. That they didn't do this means they're phenomenally stupid from a navy/military aspect. I'm going to get awfully disgusted if they don't understand how vulnerable the dragons are and take some kind of steps to ensure they don't get shot out of the sky.

Another aspect of using kids to fight, and we see them training. Why the fuck try to train them with some kind of precision archery? Why aren't they experimenting with ways to shoot fire arrows of some kind, preferably some kind of scatter-shot projectile. Train for distance, fuck accuracy.

People seem to have just discovered that there are plot details hidden in Sansa's hair. Like duh. Look at how she has it in the Season 7 trailer. Look at it!