willhud9 wrote:Book Varys is known to be more sinister in a lot of ways. Show Varys was just...well a good ole friend?

willhud9 wrote:It is not in Varys's established character to just kill someone.

willhud9 wrote:Book Varys is known to be more sinister in a lot of ways. Show Varys was just...well a good ole friend?

purplerat wrote:I think the writing was on the wall from the previous episode that Vary's would likely attempt to assassinate her. Tyrion know's him well so he would have figured it out without having to have direct knowledge.

purplerat wrote:I thought that occurred to me is that Tyrion's decision was fairly calculated. Both in standing by Dany and turning on Vary's. If Dany were taken out of the game prior to the attack on Kings Landing what would have happened? Would Jon and his coalition of the north, maybe including Dany's forces or maybe not, give up and leave Cersei to rule? Probably not. There would have been a bloody battle or maybe a long siege followed by a battle or something like that. Many people including many innocents were going to die.

Would that have been better or worse than what ultimately did happen? That's hard to say. The war could very well have gone on for years costing hundreds of thousands of lives. The best chance to avoid as much bloodshed as possible was Dany using her last dragon to end the war quickly with no more than the necessary casualties - basically the Iron Fleet and Golden Company. And they basically did achieve that until Dany either went mad or decided she needed rule with fear.

It's similar to the US decision to use nukes to end WWII. It was a horrific thing to have happened but there's an argument to be made that it was the least worst decision.

purplerat wrote:

willhud9 wrote:

purplerat wrote:I think the writing was on the wall from the previous episode that Vary's would likely attempt to assassinate her. Tyrion know's him well so he would have figured it out without having to have direct knowledge.

When has Varys tried to assassinate anyone in the show though? His whole thing is act via manipulation from behind the scenes. Pull strings. I was super confused watching that opening scene and never once pieced together an attempt at poisoning. It is not in Varys's established character to just kill someone.

I was gonna say Pycelle as it was at the hands of Varys little birds but I did a quick fact check and was reminded that it was Qyburn in the show who was behind that.

I think I was confused as in the books it was Varys who was behind it as well as other killings.

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/P ... th_Dragons

Pycelle continues his duty as Grand Maester but is wary of Lord Mace Tyrell, who is wroth with Pycelle for revealing Maergary's requests for moon tea. He requests guards from Ser Kevan Lannister out of fear for his personal safety. Pycelle's fears prove justified, as he is killed in his chambers, not by Tyrell men but by Lord Varys, who removes both him and Kevan to ensure they cannot repair the damage Cersei had done to the kingdom and the Lannister-Tyrell alliance

Off the top of my head I can't specifically recall Varys killing anybody in the show. He did have the dude you mutilated him in a box. AFIAK it's never revealed what happened to him.

Animavore wrote:I don't buy the Varys assassination theory at all.

Thommo wrote:

Spinozasgalt wrote:A mate has been trying to tell me that the whole burning innocents alive by the thousands thing is actually a strategy Dany undertook to scare the Northerners because Sansa (yes, Sansa Stark all by herself) backed Dany into a corner by playing Tyrion and Varys against her. He's literally trying to tell me this is Sansa's fault because he hates Sansa.

Sounds about right, yeah.

Thomas Eshuis wrote:

purplerat wrote:I thought that occurred to me is that Tyrion's decision was fairly calculated. Both in standing by Dany and turning on Vary's. If Dany were taken out of the game prior to the attack on Kings Landing what would have happened? Would Jon and his coalition of the north, maybe including Dany's forces or maybe not, give up and leave Cersei to rule? Probably not. There would have been a bloody battle or maybe a long siege followed by a battle or something like that. Many people including many innocents were going to die.

Would that have been better or worse than what ultimately did happen? That's hard to say. The war could very well have gone on for years costing hundreds of thousands of lives. The best chance to avoid as much bloodshed as possible was Dany using her last dragon to end the war quickly with no more than the necessary casualties - basically the Iron Fleet and Golden Company. And they basically did achieve that until Dany either went mad or decided she needed rule with fear.

It's similar to the US decision to use nukes to end WWII. It was a horrific thing to have happened but there's an argument to be made that it was the least worst decision.

Your entire argument hinges on Tyrion assuming, without evidence, that Varys would try to kill Dany before the battle, rather than, for example, get John to usurp her authority.

Thommo wrote:Because a lemon cake once murdered my family and now I'm on a bitter quest for revenge.

Actually, now I think about it, it might be more sour than bitter.

Macdoc wrote:Just into book 4 and I thought the elder Clegane was killed by the poison on the Red Viper's sword and his head sent to Dorn.
Creative licence for the TV series??

Thomas Eshuis wrote:

Animavore wrote:I don't buy the Varys assassination theory at all.

Not sure I do either, my interpetation of that scene was that Varys simply had is little bird keeping an eye on Dany's moves.

Spinozasgalt wrote:You know what, I have to give the show credit for having Arya in the middle of all that mayhem last episode. The whole time she was trying to save that mother and child and fleeing from the dragon, I was seeing her childish excitement back in season 2 when talking about dragons and the Targaryen women. Good contrasting, much difference.

Fallible wrote:There are literally dozens of ways in which the TV show diverges from the books, including entire seasons which have no book to follow.