CookieJon wrote:Here's a PM I got from Lion IRC in which he...

1. says, contrary to his debate argument, that he believes people are "born gay"... only because he can square it with scripture (not because of what anyone with any experience tells him, mind!), and...

2. articulates his sordid little fascistic desire to force everyone to live by his interpretation of his religion's scripture (informed by a voice answering questions in his head which he believes is that of a deity, no less!)

Lion IRC wrote:Hi CookieJon,

Scripture affords me the understanding that some people are born gay - made that way by God.

It does not however afford me - as far as I can prayerfully discern - the ability to see gay marriage as something God approves of. I'm sorry we dont agree on that. Maybe thats because I dont as yet understand His Word as well as I ought to and for that reason I wont ever stop asking Him.

Peace be with you.

Lion (IRC)

Puke. I don't have the words to express how revolting, self-centered, short-sighted and egotistical that is!

Let's read this bit again...

Maybe thats because I dont as yet understand His Word as well as I ought to and for that reason I wont ever stop asking Him.

To imagine you have a mandate to interfere in others' lives while you're waiting for clarification from the creator of the universe!! Such hubris!! Disgusting. Disgusting. Disgusting.

Thomas Eshuis wrote:What's more disgusting nad that counts for other theistic bigots as well, is that they hide behind their god and/or holy book to justify their bigotry.
Like they themselves don't really hate gay people, it's just that god tells them to.

Thomas Eshuis wrote: What's more disgusting nad that counts for other theistic bigots as well, is that they hide behind their god and/or holy book to justify their bigotry.
Like they themselves don't really hate gay people, it's just that god tells them to.

CookieJon wrote:

Thomas Eshuis wrote:What's more disgusting nad that counts for other theistic bigots as well, is that they hide behind their god and/or holy book to justify their bigotry.
Like they themselves don't really hate gay people, it's just that god tells them to.

I think a lot of "prayerful" Christians really do believe their own thoughts actually are God's voice answering their prayers.

Do they consciously know they're "hiding" behind their religion to justify their own bigotry? Who can say what goes on inside the murky depths of the believer's mind!

I mean, even the idea of just wanting the world to work in the absurdly puerile way it's all explained in the Bible (let alone believing it does) is completely alien to me.

Shrunk wrote:

Thomas Eshuis wrote: What's more disgusting nad that counts for other theistic bigots as well, is that they hide behind their god and/or holy book to justify their bigotry.
Like they themselves don't really hate gay people, it's just that god tells them to.

Of course, they will usually say they don't hate gay people. They just hate the "sinful" act of homosexuality.

Which is like saying "I don't hate black people. I just hate dark skin."

"I have nothing against homosexuals, as long as they don't practice their homosexuality."

"I have nothing against Christians, as long as they don't practice their Christianity."

Shrunk wrote:

Thomas Eshuis wrote: What's more disgusting nad that counts for other theistic bigots as well, is that they hide behind their god and/or holy book to justify their bigotry.
Like they themselves don't really hate gay people, it's just that god tells them to.

Of course, they will usually say they don't hate gay people. They just hate the "sinful" act of homosexuality.

Which is like saying "I don't hate black people. I just hate dark skin."

Thommo wrote:

Shrunk wrote:

Thomas Eshuis wrote: What's more disgusting nad that counts for other theistic bigots as well, is that they hide behind their god and/or holy book to justify their bigotry.
Like they themselves don't really hate gay people, it's just that god tells them to.

Of course, they will usually say they don't hate gay people. They just hate the "sinful" act of homosexuality.

Which is like saying "I don't hate black people. I just hate dark skin."

I'm not sure it is quite like that as an analogy.

I expect many people have particular features including skintone that they find more or less aesthetically appealing. I don't think the fact that a person likes brown skin more than pale pink skin (say) means they like brown skinned people more than pale pink skinned people at all.

Spearthrower wrote:
The chess metaphor was excellent though - very pigeonlike.

Lion IRC wrote:

One of the biggest problems that I find with those who argue against gay marriage is that their arguments are often irrelevant with respect to marriage.

My arguments go to the core of the debate topic.

* What does gay mean? Why allow that and not other types of marriage if equality matters?

* Matrimonial law. Reinvention of the wheel?

* The law – discrimination.

* Society – procreation/children/stability/religious culture.

Lion IRC wrote:

I don't believe that any… This is because I believe that…I'm pretty darn sure that… While I personally do not believe… I believe that through his arguments … As I have stated throughout this debate, I do not believe there is… This is, I believe, sufficient for…

I don’t use the word “believe” in any of my arguments. Count how many times my opponent uses that word. … .

Bible skeptics fiercely challenge the biblical use of the word “bat” in the same category as “birds”


Bird? Bat? Fairy?