Debunking PETA!

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Debunking PETA!

#1  Postby HughMcB » Mar 04, 2010 6:09 am

I don't actually know if you can debunk an organization, but we'll have a go! ;)

Firstly let's just familiarize ourselves with this organization and its goals...

PETA.org wrote:Mission Statement

People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA), with more than 2 million members and supporters, is the largest animal rights organization in the world.

PETA focuses its attention on the four areas in which the largest numbers of animals suffer the most intensely for the longest periods of time: on factory farms, in laboratories, in the clothing trade, and in the entertainment industry. We also work on a variety of other issues, including the cruel killing of beavers, birds and other "pests," and the abuse of backyard dogs.

PETA works through public education, cruelty investigations, research, animal rescue, legislation, special events, celebrity involvement, and protest campaigns.
http://www.peta.org/about/

Sounds pretty reasonable doesn't it? We all know the usual ravings of these form of fundies, "meat is murder", "I'd rather go naked than wear fur", "stop seal killing" etc. etc. etc., which in and of themselves seem relatively harmless. However, there is a very rotten core to this organization that has been documented over the last ten years or so, namely in unparalleled hypocrisy and funding of known terrorists and criminals. Yes, animal lovers and pet owners give regular donations to the cute and innocent face of PETA, but do people really know about where this monery is going. Perhpas we should probe into it a little.

In 2005, the dodgy practises of PETA came into the limelight when two employees were found dumping dead animals in trash bins after a spate of such occurrences were happening in this, and other, cities.

Washington Post wrote:Behind PETA's lettuce curtain
Friday, July 22, 2005
...

Here's what PETA didn't want you to see: two PETA employees attending a court hearing Tuesday in North Carolina on charges they killed and dumped 31 cats and dogs in a shopping center's trash bins. While the court case is pending, the controversy swirling around PETA and associated animal rights extremists, is again Page One news.

Veterinarian clinics and animal shelters turned the pets over to PETA in hopes they could be adopted. Instead, they were killed by an organization dedicated to "ethical" treatment of animals.

...

These folks believe there can never be any justification for animal testing. If achieving their goal means humans must suffer, then inflicting needless pain, trauma, grief and death on people is merely a necessary means to a worthwhile end. And, a report by the Anti-Defamation League -- hardly a bastion of extreme conservatism -- says radical environmental and animal-rights groups have wreaked more than $100 million in damage over the past two decades.

...
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/200 ... 338-5284r/

The Virginian-Pilot  wrote:By TONY GERMANOTTA
2005


At least one county in North Carolina has cut its relationship with People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals after two PETA workers were arrested Wednesday for allegedly dumping animal carcasses into a trash container behind a grocery in Ahoskie , N.C.

“As of today, we have temporarily suspended our agreement with PETA until the issues are resolved,” Sue Gay, health director for Northampton County, said Friday evening.

In a news conference at PETA’s Norfolk headquarters Friday, President Ingrid Newkirk said the dumping was “hideous, it’s wrong, and it never should have happened.”

Police suspected that PETA workers were killing the dogs and cats they were picking up from shelters and clinics because carcasses wrapped in plastic bags were found in the bins every Wednesday for four straight weeks, according to Ahoskie police Detective Jeremy Roberts. A total of 80 dead animals were dumped, he said.

Officers staked out the garbage bins, which were at a Piggly Wiggly supermarket.

They found 18 dead dogs in the container and 13 other animal carcasses in the van, which was registered to PETA, and arrested the two workers.

The animals were alive when they were picked up earlier in the day, Roberts said, adding, “We don’t know exactly how they were killed.”

Newkirk said they were likely given a lethal injection of a barbiturate that the organization is licensed to use.

PETA usually takes the animals back to Norfolk to be euthanized, Newkirk said, in a process that involves a single hypodermic shot and a gentle caress.

Very few are ever put up for adoption, she said.

“We won’t shy away from doing society’s dirty work as long as the alternative is a life of misery and a bad or slow death,” Newkirk said.

Last year, she said, 2,278 animals were euthanized in Virginia, 7,641 sterilized and 361 put up for adoption.
http://www.filadog.com/html%20docs/peta ... dead_2.htm

San Fransisco Chronicle wrote:Better dead than fed, PETA says
Debra J. Saunders
Thursday, June 23, 2005

...

PETA employees were charged with 31 felony counts of animal cruelty each, after authorities found them dumping the dead bodies of 18 animals they had just picked up from a North Carolina animal shelter into a Dumpster. According to the Associated Press, 13 more dead animals were found in a van registered to PETA.

...

This is not the first report that PETA killed animals it claimed to protect. In 1991, PETA killed 18 rabbits and 14 roosters it had previously "rescued" from a research facility. "We just don't have the money" to care for them, then PETA-Chairman Alex Pacheco told the Washington Times. The PETA animal shelter had run out of room.

The Center for Consumer Freedom, which represents the food industry, a frequent target of PETA campaigns, released data filed by PETA with the state of Virginia that shows PETA has killed more than 10,000 animals from 1998 to 2003. "In 2003, PETA euthanized over 85 percent of the animals it took in," said a press release from the lobby, "finding adoptive homes for just 14 percent. By comparison, the Norfolk (Va.) SPCA found adoptive homes for 73 percent of its animals and Virginia Beach SPCA adopted out 66 percent."

...
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... DC9BK1.DTL

This case was not just an isolated one, as extremely high rates of euthanasia is thoroughly documented in the animal lover's records.

Telegraph.co.uk wrote:Peta under fire over claim that it kills most animals left at its US headquarters
By Philip Sherwell in New York
Published: 7:13PM BST 04 Apr 2009


...

The high-profile charity, famous for its "I'd rather go naked than wear fur" campaigns, has euthanised more than 20,000 pets in the last decade, according to figures it has supplied to Virginia state officials.

Peta insists that homes could not be found for the dogs and cats, usually because they were in such poor health or because they were "unsocialised" and aggressive, usually because of bad treatment by their owners.

But the organisation, which does not run its own animal adoption programme and does not accept animals into its care elsewhere, admitted to The Sunday Telegraph that some treatable and adoptable animals were also among those killed by lethal injection.

...

Dave Shishkoff of the Friends of Animals pressure group claimed that he saw perfectly-healthy looking puppies and kittens killed at Peta when he worked there as an intern in 1991.

"Peta has a perverse definition of euthanasia - one that apparently demands that any animal with the slightest discomfort ought to be killed," he said.

"The vast majority of the animals Peta kills are far from terminal or suffering from incurable conditions. Peta claims to have a $30 million annual budget, yet cannot find home for about 2,000 cats and dogs each year. Not with $30 million dollars, or millions of members and huge lists of email addresses. Literally an armful of cats and dogs somehow survive Peta's 'rescues' each year."

...

Peta is best-known for its anti-fur campaigns featuring naked models and actors. But it has consistently courted controversy with its uncompromising campaigns.

Germany's highest court last month ruled that a Peta advertisement comparing animal slaughterhouses to the Holocaust was an offence against human dignity. The campaign had depicted images of factory farms next to Jewish concentration camp inmates and the slogan "Holocaust on your plate".

Last year, a campaign aimed at children - "Your Mommy Kills Animals" - featured a graphic cartoon image of a woman in pearls and apron ripping apart a rabbit with a knife for fur. And eyebrows were raised when the group urged Ben & Jerry's ice cream to replace cow's milk with human breast milk in their products.

...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... rters.html

Here is the euthanasia rates from the last number of years as submitted to the Virginia Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services...

Image
SOURCE

As pointed out in the above articles, these rates are much high than any normal animal shelter or home and with adoption rates which are negligible. PETA just don't bother their ass spending money out of their $30 million budget on actually finding homes for a couple of thousand animals, instead they have bigger fish to fry (yes terrible pun I know) in promoting their own organization on the international stage, hogging the limelight, and throwing red paint on high street stores and people in leather jackets instead while the eager media snap shots of these revolutionaries of the animal kingdom.

So what is the actual goals of PETA, obviously animal care is not at their forefront, instead taking a backseat to trying to gain as much exposure as they possibly can. Promoting their own organisation through campaigns of either shock and awe or sex and nudity. What mindset could produce such campaigns? Well this is a start on understanding the minds of the PETA leadership.

The Mindset of PETA
For instance, when PETA learned that the photographs of Holocaust victims displayed in its roving exhibit -- entitled “The Holocaust on Your Plate” -- included Nobel Peace Prize winner Elie Wiesel as a young man at the Buchenwald concentration camp, it shrugged. “Six million people died in concentration camps,” laments Ingrid Newkirk, “but six billion broiler chickens will die this year in slaughterhouses.”

When terrorists struck on September 11, 2001, PETA issued a press release emphasizing the “animals left orphaned” and the dogs and cats in nearby buildings who would be “highly traumatized.” The press release berated Mayor Giuliani for his “poor record when it comes to animals” and urged him expend time, energy, and human resources “to set up a task force to locate and rescue animals” at Ground Zero.

When Newkirk heard that Palestinian militants had strapped explosives to a donkey in the hopes of exploding it in a crowded Jerusalem street, she faxed a letter to Yasser Arafat, pleading with him to “leave the animals out of it.”

When a grisly killing spree in Vancouver left 15 women dead, PETA tried to purchase full-page ads in local papers suggesting that this carnage was no worse than the killing of animals for food.

When Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh decided to refrain from eating meat during his last meal, PETA’s Bruce Friedrich told reporters: “Mr. McVeigh’s decision to go vegetarian groups him with some of the world’s greatest visionaries, including Albert Schweitzer, Mohandas Gandhi, Leo Tolstoy and Albert Einstein.”
http://www.activistcash.com/organizatio ... cfm/oid/21

Ingrid Newkirk is the rather controversial founder and [president at the centre of this organisation, she has been very outspoken in the field of animal rights, a bit too fucking outspoken if you ask me....

Ingrid Newkirk (President/Founder of PETA) Quotes
“Even if animal tests produced a cure for AIDS, we’d be against it.”
— PETA president and co-founder Ingrid Newkirk, in the September 1989 issue of Vogue, Sep 1989

“There’s no rational basis for saying that a human being has special rights. A rat is a pig is a dog is a boy. They’re all animals.”
— Washingtonian magazine, Aug 1986

“Probably everything we do is a publicity stunt ... we are not here to gather members, to please, to placate, to make friends. We're here to hold the radical line.”
— USA Today, Sep 1991

“I openly hope that it [hoof-and-mouth disease] comes here. It will bring economic harm only for those who profit from giving people heart attacks and giving animals a concentration camp-like existence. It would be good for animals, good for human health and good for the environment.”
— ABC News interview, Apr 2001

“I am not a morose person, but I would rather not be here. I don’t have any reverence for life, only for the entities themselves. I would rather see a blank space where I am. This will sound like fruitcake stuff again but at least I wouldn’t be harming anything.”
— The Washington Post, Nov 1983

“I will be the last person to condemn ALF [the Animal Liberation Front].”
— The New York Daily News, Dec 1997

“Would I rather the research lab that tests animals is reduced to a bunch of cinders? Yes.”
— New York Daily News, Dec 1997

“There is no hidden agenda. If anybody wonders about -- what’s this with all these reforms -- you can hear us clearly. Our goal is total animal liberation. [emphasis added]”
— “Animal Rights 2002” convention, Jun 2002

“Eating meat is primitive, barbaric, and arrogant.”
— Washington City Paper, Dec 1985

“More power to SHAC if they can get someone’s attention.”
— People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals president & co-founder Ingrid Newkirk, in The Boston Herald, August 25, 2002

“Six million people died in concentration camps, but six billion broiler chickens will die this year in slaughterhouses. [emphasis added]”
— The Washington Post, Nov 1983

“I wish we all would get up and go into the labs and take the animals out or burn them down.”
— "National Animal Rights Convention", Jun 1997

“Our nonviolent tactics are not as effective. We ask nicely for years and get nothing. Someone makes a threat, and it works.”
— Ingrid Newkirk, in the April 8, 2002 issue of US News & World Report , Apr 2002

"I would go to work early, before anyone got there, and I would just kill the animals myself. Because I couldn't stand to let them go through other workers abusing the animals. I must have killed thousands of them, sometimes dozens everyday."
-- Ingrid Newkirk, President, PeTA, The New Yorker, April 14, 2003

"We are not in the home finding business, although it is certainly true that we do find homes from time to time for the kind of animals people are looking for. Our service is to provide a peaceful and painless death to animals who no one wants."
-- Ingrid Newkirk, President, PeTA, The Virginian-Pilot, July 20, 2005

"Six million people died in concentration camps, but six billion broiler chickens will die this year in slaughterhouses."
-- Ingrid Newkirk, Washington Post, November 13, 1983, p. B10

"Even painless research is fascism, supremacism."
-- Ingrid Newkirk, PeTA's founder and president, Washington Magazine, August 1986

"I know it's illegal [trespassing], but I don't think it's wrong,"
-- Ingrid Newkirk, PeTA's founder and president, Montgomery County, Maryland Journal, Feb. 16, 1988


Newkirk is a firm supporter of other animal rights groups that have fucked up millions of dollars worth of research laboratories, put human lives at risk, and are among the FBI's most wanted.
(Pretty impressive for a bunch of veggies! ;) )

Links to terrorist groups Earth Liberation Front (ELF) and the Animal Liberation Front (ALF)
People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals provides aid and comfort for the Earth Liberation Front (ELF) and the Animal Liberation Front (ALF). The two groups are responsible for more than 600 crimes since 1996, causing (by a very conservative FBI estimate) more than $43 million in damage. ALF’s “press office” brags that in 2002, the two groups committed “100 illegal direct actions” -- like blowing up SUVs, destroying the brakes on seafood delivery trucks, and planting firebombs in restaurants.

The FBI calls ALF and ELF the nation’s “most serious domestic terrorism threat.” Bruce Friedrich, PETA’s “vegan campaign director” and third-in-command, didn’t seem to care when he addressed the Animal Rights 2001 convention in Virginia, telling a crowd of over 1,000 activists that “blowing stuff up and smashing windows” is “a great way to bring about animal liberation.”

“It would be great,” he added, “if all the fast-food outlets, slaughterhouses, these laboratories and the banks who fund them exploded tomorrow.”

PETA’s connections to ALF and ELF are indisputable. “We did it, we did it. We gave $1,500 to the ELF for a specific program,” PETA’s Lisa Lange admitted on the Fox News Channel. PETA has offered no fewer than eight different explanations of what the “specific program” was, but law enforcement leaders have noted that since the Earth Liberation Front is a criminal enterprise, it has absolutely no legal “programs” of any kind.

For instance, in 2003, ELF set fire to an unfinished, 200 unit condominium complex near San Diego. The arson caused $50 million in damage, and according to a San Diego Fire Captain: “It could have killed someone.” ELF left its calling card in the form of a twelve foot sign that read: “If you build it -- we will burn it -- the ELF’s are mad.”

PETA also has given $2,000 to David Wilson, then a national ALF “spokesperson.” The group paid $27,000 for the legal defense of Roger Troen, who was arrested for taking part in an October 1986 burglary and arson at the University of Oregon. It gave $7,500 to Fran Stephanie Trutt, who tried to murder the president of a medical laboratory. It gave $5,000 to Josh Harper, who attacked Native Americans on a whale hunt by throwing smoke bombs, shooting flares, and spraying their faces with chemical fire extinguishers. All of these monies were paid out of tax-exempt funds, the same pot of money constantly enlarged by donations from an unsuspecting general public.

PETA president Ingrid Newkirk is also an acknowledged financial supporter of a publication called No Compromise. This periodical operates on behalf of the radicals of ALF, and often publishes underground “communiqués” and calls to arms from ALF leaders.

Most ominously, PETA president Ingrid Newkirk was involved in the multi-million-dollar arson at Michigan State University that resulted in a 57-month prison term for Animal Liberation Front bomber Rodney Coronado. At Coronado’s sentencing hearing, U.S. Attorney Michael Dettmer said that PETA’s Ingrid Newkirk arranged ahead of time to have Coronado send her a pair of FedEx packages from Michigan -- one on the day before he burned the lab down, and the other shortly afterward.
http://www.activistcash.com/organizatio ... cfm/oid/21


AnimalScam.com wrote:A page from the 1995 annual tax return (form 990) of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA), showing a $45,200 payment for the "support committee" of Rodney Coronado, a felon. Mr. Coronado was convicted of arson in federal court for the 1992 firebombing of a Michigan State University research lab.

Image
http://www.animalscam.com/references/peta_rodney1.cfm

AnimalScam.com wrote:A page from the 2000 annual tax return (form 990) of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA), showing a $1,500 payment to support the program activities of the North American Earth Liberation Front. ELF has been called "the largest and most active U.S.-based terrorist group" by the FBI, and along with its sister group the Animal Liberation Front commits arson, sets off time bombs and incendiary devices, destroys research facilities, runs online eco-terror "training camps," and much more.

Image
http://www.animalscam.com/references/peta_elf1.cfm

I nice episode of Bullshit highlighting some of the reasons why PETA are such a shady bunch. ;)

Penn and Teller Bullshit - PETA (Part 1/4)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAt1z_TgPQ4[/youtube]
Playlist: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAt1z_Tg ... playnext=1

People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals - Profile

More PETA ridiculousness...

The recent blizzard in Colorado has left thousands of cattle (an estimated 340,000) stranded and starving. In a totally transparent act of hypocrisy, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals or PeTA, the largest and most well-funded animal rights organization in the world, has refused to help.
http://rodeo.about.com/od/animalhealths ... cattle.htm

Following a state government notification asking the Brihanmumbai Municipal Corporation (BMC) to take measures to prevent infection from the Japanese encephalitis virus, the BMC has passed an order to kill 1,000 pigs a week.

Japanese encephalitis is a mosquito-borne disease of human beings and animals. Mosquitoes become infected by feeding on domestic pigs and wild birds infected with the Japanese encephalitis virus. Infected mosquitoes then transmit the Japanese encephalitis virus to humans and animals during the feeding process.

PETA argues that the killing of pigs is cruel and will be ineffective since without widespread sterilization, as pigs are killed, more pigs will be born. Pigs from other territories will also start filling the territories of the pigs who have been killed.
http://www.petaindia.com/mumbaipigsalert.html

Now I was going to post some ridiculous videos of PETA commercials with copious amounts of nudity and sporadic farmyard throat slitting but instead I'll just leave you with another last thought. And that is are the people who are activists for PETA really concerned about the welfare of animals, or is it just an attention thing whereby the get to proudly announce down the pub bout throwing paint on people or telling people not to drink milk or some other bollocks like this (I've actually met some of these). Or, perhaps is just as simple as the sentiment one spoken by their esteemed leader and founder....

"We are complete press sluts.
-- Ingrid Newkirk, The New Yorker, 2003 April 14th

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This whole thing makes me wonder about what exactly being a PETA activist is all about?....

I certainly have my reservations for now. :roll:
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Re: Debunking PETA!

#2  Postby atrasicarius » Mar 04, 2010 6:15 am

Just two words: Sea Kittens. Amirite?
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Re: Debunking PETA!

#3  Postby Tbickle » Mar 04, 2010 6:15 am

:cheers:

Great summary! I understand that at time people need to be shocked into action or to take notice of an issue, but PETA has made a bad name for many other groups who also fight for various animal rights and isolated those who could possibly be sympathetic to their cause.
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Re: Debunking PETA!

#4  Postby j.mills » Mar 04, 2010 11:57 pm

Thanks for putting that together, HughMcB - I hope it's just pouring out of a file you have somewhere, and that you haven't spent hours doing detective work just 'cos little me asked a question!

I supported PETA for, I dunno, a decade; still get their mailings, though I haven't sent them money for ages - more through laziness and lack of disposable income than turning against them.

Some of the implied criticisms above slide off - "involved" in this, "supporting" that. Disagreement with their take on the importance of animal suffering is just that, disagreement: a discourse in progress. I have no problem with their anti-fur ads, their (albeit tactless) media opportunism, even their holocaust comparisons: all these are talk, free expression at work.

However, the euthanasia - more particularly, the substantial increase in the proportion of animals they euthanise - is kinda damning. They can make an argument that these are animals no one would take as pets, but why the increase in animals that fall into that category over a timescale of just a few years? That looks strangely like they can't be bothered. And as mentioned, keeping them alive and looked after is kinda what people donate for, certainly part of it. In the absence of other options, tens of millions should easily cover a sanctuary!

The links with law-breakers are more serious still. I remain uncomfortable with both the moral and scientific arguments for vivisection (much less factory farming), but I don't see criminal acts as a constructive or, overriding that, acceptable way forward. Even if your conscience compelled you to release lab animals (which after all are not aided in their plight right now this minute by the prospect of reform in twenty years), that is still a far cry from actively causing destruction and endangering lives. To my mind, folks who do that are acting out a self-dramatising desire for thrills and power, using a dogmatic flavour of animal rights as their pretext: much the same as how the 9/11 hijackers made a specious meaning for themselves inside a religion.

I'm sorry to find that PETA don't seem to see it that way, so kinda glad I've vaguely drifted out of what appears to be a moral morass. A position that justifies a risk of inflicting (human) suffering as a means to prevent (animal) suffering has lost its coherence: the use of suffering to prevent suffering is what they are supposedly against.

PETA don't get as much publicity in Europe as I suspect they do in the US. I dare say the criticisms of their actions are better known over there? (Although of course animal rights organisations are always criticised, no matter how they act: the vast majority of the populace and media have a vested interest in disparaging them.)
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Re: Debunking PETA!

#5  Postby endless psych » Mar 05, 2010 12:24 am

I object to their opposition of animal testing for medical purposes and the means they promote this to schoolchildren. I'm thinking particularly of leaflets claiming that researchers involved in animal testing taunt and maliciously harm the animals in their charge. Specifically the article that shows a cartoon researcher cutting off a mouses head with a pair of scissors.

Also distasteful was the recent advert using baby P's killer to infer people who harmed animals might also harm people - of which I attempted a debunk here.
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Re: Debunking PETA!

#6  Postby Peter Brown » Mar 05, 2010 9:49 am

PETA is probably a good example of checking where your donations go from the posted comments here.
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Re: Debunking PETA!

#7  Postby PairOfFeet » Mar 05, 2010 9:53 am

You have to admit the lettuce bikini was an interesting idea.
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Re: Debunking PETA!

#8  Postby cherries » Mar 05, 2010 10:46 am

i remember this vid,[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeLRGKpowcw[/youtube]it seems to be a fake,that kitten be in pain if the hook would have pierced it.

Hot Topics: The Use of Cats and Dogs as Bait in France
PETA continues to monitor the situation in which dogs and cats were reportedly being used as fishing bait on the island of Réunion, and there is some good news. According to the World Society for the Protection of Animals, the French minister for overseas territories visited Réunion at the end of September to meet with the governor of the island to ensure that measures to prevent such barbaric practices are being put in place by Réunion authorities; the governor assured animal welfare groups that he condemns this cruel practice and announced that any dog or cat found aboard a fishing vessel in Réunion waters registered with the municipal authorities will be confiscated.

Police have also been ordered to monitor and control these incidents, and the judiciary has been told to punish any offenses with the severest penalties. The Sea Shepherd Conservation Society reports that the first violator has already been charged as a result of efforts by police to investigate the practice...

http://www.peta.org/about/hottopic006.asp
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Re: Debunking PETA!

#9  Postby tnjrp » Mar 05, 2010 11:02 am

I don't know much about PETA personally but they've been accused of taking part in some "better dead than pet" campaigns, such as poisoning dogs at some American dog shows with antifreeze (you find precious little love for PETA on any of the US-based show dog folk forums or mailing lists...). Obviously I can't corroborate that but the very idea does make me a bit leery of them my must admit :nono:
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Re: Debunking PETA!

#10  Postby The_Metatron » Mar 05, 2010 1:49 pm

They do seem to command the participation of a fair number of beautiful nearly naked women, and I can appreciate that.

Aside from that, I say they are full of shit.
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Re: Debunking PETA!

#11  Postby babel » Mar 05, 2010 1:57 pm

If only the lettuce would wither...
I'm always pretty skeptic about idealists and peta is no different.
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Re: Debunking PETA!

#12  Postby tnjrp » Mar 05, 2010 2:04 pm

The_Metatron wrote:They do seem to command the participation of a fair number of beautiful nearly naked women
As I recall, It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia was a bit leery of how "idealistic" people who show up for rallies like that really are. Then again, it's refreshingly leery of anything so I suppose it doesn't count as relevant documentary material.
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Re: Debunking PETA!

#13  Postby HughMcB » Mar 05, 2010 3:00 pm

tnjrp wrote:I don't know much about PETA personally but they've been accused of taking part in some "better dead than pet" campaigns, such as poisoning dogs at some American dog shows with antifreeze (you find precious little love for PETA on any of the US-based show dog folk forums or mailing lists...). Obviously I can't corroborate that but the very idea does make me a bit leery of them my must admit :nono:

Don't get me wrong, I fucking hat dog show people also, I watched a very good BBC doc on how all the purebred dogs a riddled with disease and genetic weaknesses (which I knew already) but it was that the dog breeders were perfectly ok with this as long as they looked the way they "should" i.e. humans had decided they should in some dog catalogue.

Here it is...
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/pedigree-dogs-exposed/

If that link doesn't here's a youtube one;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O0l0f50AAk&feature=fvw

Despite thinking that this is very very wrong, it doesn't change my opinion that PETA are a bunch of attention seeking knob jockeys.
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Re: Debunking PETA!

#14  Postby HughMcB » Mar 05, 2010 3:05 pm

The_Metatron wrote:They do seem to command the participation of a fair number of beautiful nearly naked women, and I can appreciate that.

Aside from that, I say they are full of shit.

But this is exactly it, as far as I can tell the people on the front lines of PETA do like animals (but then again not many people actually don't) however they're just after some attention and exposure (literally) by being photographed, filmed and interviewed at some bullshit naked love in. If they really cared that much they'd be laying down in front of cattle trucks and meat grinders, that's what real revolutionaries do. Not getting their kit off for a busy high street and eager paparazzi.

It may be effective yes, as you throw a pair of tits in any advertising campaign and it often is a hit, however these people themselves don't give two fucks about actual animals, neither do PETA and neither do the celebs who endorse them. Its all one big fucking masturbatory (sometimes literally :shifty: ) image campaign.
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Re: Debunking PETA!

#15  Postby HughMcB » Mar 05, 2010 3:07 pm

tnjrp wrote:
The_Metatron wrote:They do seem to command the participation of a fair number of beautiful nearly naked women
As I recall, It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia was a bit leery of how "idealistic" people who show up for rallies like that really are. Then again, it's refreshingly leery of anything so I suppose it doesn't count as relevant documentary material.

Yeah I remember seeing that episode, it was at the abortion rally yeah?!

Those fucking nuts at it were pretty ruthless, fairly funny how they were trying to hit on the girls on the pro-choice side though! :rofl:
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Re: Debunking PETA!

#16  Postby Witticism » Mar 05, 2010 3:11 pm

HughMcB wrote:
tnjrp wrote:I don't know much about PETA personally but they've been accused of taking part in some "better dead than pet" campaigns, such as poisoning dogs at some American dog shows with antifreeze (you find precious little love for PETA on any of the US-based show dog folk forums or mailing lists...). Obviously I can't corroborate that but the very idea does make me a bit leery of them my must admit :nono:

Don't get me wrong, I fucking hat dog show people also, I watched a very good BBC doc on how all the purebred dogs a riddled with disease and genetic weaknesses (which I knew already) but it was that the dog breeders were perfectly ok with this as long as they looked the way they "should" i.e. humans had decided they should in some dog catalogue.

Here it is...
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/pedigree-dogs-exposed/

If that link doesn't here's a youtube one;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O0l0f50AAk&feature=fvw

Despite thinking that this is very very wrong, it doesn't change my opinion that PETA are a bunch of attention seeking knob jockeys.

So what is the point of your thread?

Are you trying to highlight that the mission statement of the organisation, i.e. Animal Liberation is bunk?
Or are you saying they are hypocrites? :ask:

Organisations are like people ... because there are run by imperfect beings. If you are going to 'debunk' an organisation than you may as well debunk them all.

Where do you stand on the ethical treatment of non-human animals?

What is your proposed solution for consciousness raising in regard to the treatment of non-human animals?

I'm just curious to hear some solutions.
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Re: Debunking PETA!

#17  Postby HughMcB » Mar 07, 2010 7:51 am

Witticism wrote:So what is the point of your thread?

I was asked by another few members to make a thread on PETA when in passing on another thread (I beleieve in realtion to a comment about Bill Maher) I said that they were all a bunch of hypocrites. I stuck this is the debunking section as I was at a loss to put it somewhere better.

Witticism wrote:Are you trying to highlight that the mission statement of the organisation, i.e. Animal Liberation is bunk?

Yes, namely this part...
PETA works through public education, cruelty investigations, research, animal rescue, legislation, special events, celebrity involvement, and protest campaigns.

See underlined.

Witticism wrote:Or are you saying they are hypocrites? :ask:

Yes, in the respect highlighted above.

Witticism wrote:Organisations are like people ... because there are run by imperfect beings. If you are going to 'debunk' an organisation than you may as well debunk them all.

Although I agree I think that an organisation who works in dorect contradiction to its mision statement is worth a mention.

Witticism wrote:Where do you stand on the ethical treatment of non-human animals?

I think the majority of animals are treated terribly.

Witticism wrote:What is your proposed solution for consciousness raising in regard to the treatment of non-human animals?

If I knew that I would lead a major operation highlighting this solution. There is no easy solution, that is why these issues remain relatively on the backburner of modern life.

Witticism wrote:I'm just curious to hear some solutions.

Unfortunately I'm sorry I can't do any better, I'm not saying that the goals of this organisation are incorrect, but I still don't agree with their methodoloy.

...

I take it from your comments that you are a firm supporter? I didn't mean to ruffle any feathers, as I said I made some comments on another thread (along with another couple of members) as to why PETA were pretty hypocritical, there was an interest and request made for me to start a thread on justifying why.
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Re: Debunking PETA!

#18  Postby Witticism » Mar 07, 2010 12:36 pm

HughMcB wrote:
Witticism wrote:So what is the point of your thread?

I was asked by another few members to make a thread on PETA when in passing on another thread (I beleieve in realtion to a comment about Bill Maher) I said that they were all a bunch of hypocrites. I stuck this is the debunking section as I was at a loss to put it somewhere better.

Witticism wrote:Are you trying to highlight that the mission statement of the organisation, i.e. Animal Liberation is bunk?

Yes, namely this part...
PETA works through public education, cruelty investigations, research, animal rescue, legislation, special events, celebrity involvement, and protest campaigns.

See underlined.

Witticism wrote:Or are you saying they are hypocrites? :ask:

Yes, in the respect highlighted above.

Witticism wrote:Organisations are like people ... because there are run by imperfect beings. If you are going to 'debunk' an organisation than you may as well debunk them all.

Although I agree I think that an organisation who works in dorect contradiction to its mision statement is worth a mention.

Witticism wrote:Where do you stand on the ethical treatment of non-human animals?

I think the majority of animals are treated terribly.

Witticism wrote:What is your proposed solution for consciousness raising in regard to the treatment of non-human animals?

If I knew that I would lead a major operation highlighting this solution. There is no easy solution, that is why these issues remain relatively on the backburner of modern life.

Witticism wrote:I'm just curious to hear some solutions.

Unfortunately I'm sorry I can't do any better, I'm not saying that the goals of this organisation are incorrect, but I still don't agree with their methodoloy.

...

I take it from your comments that you are a firm supporter? I didn't mean to ruffle any feathers, as I said I made some comments on another thread (along with another couple of members) as to why PETA were pretty hypocritical, there was an interest and request made for me to start a thread on justifying why.

Thank you for answering my post. :cheers:

I'm sorry if I came across as gruff ... I was tired and was curious cause I couldn't figure out your 'tone' and I was trying hard not to make my tone seem aggressive ... I was literally curious and I'm sorry if I didn't come across with that tone. Such is the limitation of text.

Being an Aussie I know very little about them, so I am just trying to find out more.

My wife and I do support some Australian animal charities and WWF but not PETA.

I'm a pacifist (and pragmatic) and don't believe a person or organisation can take the 'moral high ground' by force.

Anyway thanks again.
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Re: Debunking PETA!

#19  Postby Gawdzilla » Mar 07, 2010 12:58 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAt1z_TgPQ4[/youtube]
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Re: Debunking PETA!

#20  Postby Federico » Mar 07, 2010 2:30 pm

With reasonable animal lovers -- of whom I am one -- you can successfully argue that:
  • Research with animals is still inevitable at some stage of the process when you cannot use humans (preclinical studies, toxicological evaluation, etc
  • Public and private research financing Organisations submit research proposals to a fine comb analysis to make sure animals are treated humanely
  • Immense progress has been made thanks to the use of animals from which animals themselves have often benefited
.
PETA members are nothing short of terrorists who don’t even have animal welfare at heart but rather self aggrandizement and the collection of large financing from duped animal lovers.
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