Apollonius wrote:
2. Cholesterol must be lowered with drugs to prevent heart disease.

Paul G wrote:How do you know your low cholesterol isn't genetic?

Dogmatic Pyrrhonist wrote:

Apollonius wrote:
2. Cholesterol must be lowered with drugs to prevent heart disease.

Not too sure if this might be different in other places in the world, but in Aussie land that point is more;
2. Cholesterol can be lowered with drugs to prevent arterial blockages escalating into heart disease, for high risk patients.
You've made it sound like the medical profession wants to put everyone on cholesterol lowering drugs. AFAIK, those drugs are usually used when a high cholesterol level has been established in a patient having heart troubles.

Now, for the rest. Yes, but you don't go far enough.
The whole world's dietry knowledge is based on assorted BS. It comes down to choose your flavour of bullshit, and that will tell you which diet lie you want to listen to. It is an area that desperately needs some valid science. But there's so much money in spinning the various bullshits, that very few people want to start with tearing down the house of cards.
And, to be fair, conceiving of valid long term randomized double blind studies into diet is pretty fucking tricky. The best you can hope for is randomized really.

Pebble wrote:The OP is pure bollocks. The evidence base behind reducing cholesterol is beyond doubt. ..

Apollonius wrote:

Pebble wrote:The OP is pure bollocks. The evidence base behind reducing cholesterol is beyond doubt. ..

Explain what you mean and prove it.

We have all been led to believe that cholesterol is bad and that lowering it is good. Because of extensive pharmaceutical marketing to both doctors and patients we think that using statin drugs is proven to work to lower the risk of heart attacks and death.

But on what scientific evidence is this based, what does that evidence really show?

Roger Williams once said something that is very applicable to how we commonly view the benefits of statins. "There are liars, damn liars, and statisticians."

We see prominent ads on television and in medical journals -- things like 36% reduction in risk of having a heart attack. But we don't look at the fine print. What does that REALLY mean and how does it affect decisions about who should really be using these drugs.

Before I explain that, here are some thought provoking findings to ponder.

• If you lower bad cholesterol (LDL) but have a low HDL (good cholesterol) there is no benefit to statins. (i)

• If you lower bad cholesterol (LDL) but don't reduce inflammation (marked by a test called C-reactive protein), there is no benefit to statins. (ii)

• If you are a healthy woman with high cholesterol, there is no proof that taking statins reduces your risk of heart attack or death. (iii)

• If you are a man or a woman over 69 years old with high cholesterol, there is no proof that taking statins reduces your risk of heart attack or death. (iv)

• Aggressive cholesterol treatment with two medications (Zocor and Zetia) lowered cholesterol much more than one drug alone, but led to more plaque build up in the arties and no fewer heart attacks. (v)

• 75% of people who have heart attacks have normal cholesterol

• Older patients with lower cholesterol have higher risks of death than those with higher cholesterol. (vi)

• Countries with higher average cholesterol than Americans such as the Swiss or Spanish have less heart disease.

• Recent evidence shows that it is likely statins' ability to lower inflammation it what accounts for the benefits of statins, not their ability to lower cholesterol.

So for whom do the statin drugs work for anyway? They work for people who have already had heart attacks to prevent more heart attacks or death. And they work slightly for middle-aged men who have many risk factors for heart disease like high blood pressure, obesity, or diabetes...

So what have we learned….I mean besides Drug companies will blanket the media with slick marketing trying to get everyone to buy and use their drugs every single day….well until they are actually held accountable for all they are doing to us in the meantime.
Cholesterol is not the bad guy as made out. Inflammation is a greater risk factor
Cholesterol is 80% made by the liver….doesn’t matter what you eat. If you eat less cholesterol then the body makes more. If you eat more cholesterol then the body makes less.
If your doctor says you need statins, ask him/her where the actual proof is that they do any good….there is none. If they still force you to take it….I might think about finding a new doctor who will work with your lifestyle changes instead. (of course I am no medical professional who can judge your real risk factors so you can’t listen to me…but from the looks of it above, are those doctor even aware of why they are giving out statins?)
Eating better foods and exercise seem to do more than statins to reduce risks for heart disease
If we stopped spending billions of dollars on cholesterol related medical visits and procedure, and put it to educating people about what is really going on….we could probably help millions (but there is no financial gain for any company for that).
Low Fat/High Carb diets make more smaller dense dangerous cholesterol particles (so we can thank the whole eat “low fat” advice over the last few decades as a role in increasing heart diseases)
Statins make us sick and dumber….all to prevent something it hasn’t been proven to help for most all people. How is this legally on the market?
Cholesterol goes up when the body is under stress (including inflammation, immmune system, toxins and chemicals in us, oxidative damamge, free radicals, etc). I know chronic joggers with high cholesterol who won’t listen to me when I say “stop jogging so much and eat less sugar”. But they would rather think their doctor knows it all. Sigh…..
Get your SLEEP….and stop stressing out all day. Lack of sleep and chronic stress leads to increased insulin resistance…high insulin…and all the fun things to come. Lifestyle is a huge factor…and if we choose to ignore this then we choose to make ourselves sicker.
Get rid of ALL vegetable oils….want a great way to cause cell membrane destruction? Increase your consumption of unstable and easily oxidized fats (PUFAs). Eat more “stable” Sat and MUFA (monounsat fats).
High Insulin drives MORE cholesterol production!!!! Focus on what matters, insulin control!!!! How do we do that? Well high insulin levels are usually a result of insulin resistance brought on by high blood sugar (from eating/drinking too much processed/easily broken down carbs and sugar and also a lack of protein with meals to slow down gastric emptying). Best ways to reverse the damage, eat less sugar and processed carbs to keep blood sugar stable, eat more proteins/healthy fats/whole food carbs like fruits and vegetables, and exercise to improve insulin sensitivity. Hands down the best way to get better! HyperInsulinia (chronic high insulin levels) could be the #1 risk factor for most ALL diseases.

Mr.Samsa wrote:Does that mean you have no evidence to counter the research presented by pebble?

Apollonius wrote:

Paul G wrote:How do you know your low cholesterol isn't genetic?

I'm not sure who you are asking. If you were responding to my statement that my HDL is high and LDL is low.. It was the other way around before I started Paleo. My HDL went way up, and LDL way down. This means it was not genetic.

Mr.Samsa wrote:Does that mean you have no evidence to counter the research presented by pebble?

Grace wrote:A person should eat only enough calories to support life and replace calories burned in work and play.

A combination of the Mediterranean diet and Asian diet is the best in the world. These people live longer than anyone else. Americans are the most unhealthy right now. 70% are over-weight, and all morbidly obese adults will be dead in 10 or 15 years. That's a lot of people. Add cigarettes, alcohol, drugs, and inactivity the death rate will happen a lot sooner.

A good diet is not complicated.

Dinner example:
-- one half of an 8 inch plate should contain leafy greens and vegetables (go easy on the dressing, cheese, and croutons).
-- the other half of the plate should be divided up into one thirds.
-- 1/3 should be 3-4 ounces of baked white meat or fish
-- 1/3 should be 4 ounces of fresh fruit (not canned).
-- 1/3 should be whole grain, nuts, and beans.
Fluids:
-- one glass of water, tea, coffee, diet pop, or milk with every meal.
Alcohol:
-- sparingly
Sweets:
-- rarely
Beef:
-- two ounces once a month