ray wrote:dyet-b wrote:
Are you saying that your god is hidden from anybody who doesn't "really love to" see him?
Isn't all evidence "hidden" from those who do not want evidence?
No, it isn't. As much as you would not like to have evidence for the hole in your tooth, the persistent toothache is there. Not wanting to feel the toothache doesn't make it go away.
Why does the visibility of your asserted god depend on "really loving to see Him"?
Because evidence is seen only by those who desire evidence.
No. See above.
Can one find evidence for your god's existence through honest and critical inquiry (without any emotions clouding up judgement)?
That's what is called taking the elavator to the roof.
So according to you, on one hand emotions ("really loving to see Him") are required to see the evidence, and on the other hand critical inquiry without emotions is the way to gather the evidence? So are emotions required, or not?
You don't describe what it is that I should be looking for, and you blame me for not seeing it. That is completely unfair.
You yourself have described that thing already.
I was mentioning stars on one hand, and unevidenced wishful thinking on the other hand. Which one of these is your deity?
You refer to the stars, but I know what you refer to because I know myself what stars are. You are describing something that is known to me, I just simply cannot see it in this moment, since I'm in the basement (according to your analogy), presumably without windows. But I still know what stars are, I have seen them before.
You know the stars, thats why when you hear of the biggest Star, you want to see that one too.
So your purported deity is a natural celestial body? Are you an idolator?
Seeing the stars on a clear night is not a big deal, and does not depend on me "really loving to see the stars", as you claimed before. I would see the stars even if I didn't "really love to" see them, but somebody took me to the roof while I was asleep, and woke me up. I would see the stars even if I completely hated to see them.
Which is why star haters dont discover the Real Gem in the sky.
So some people who don't like celestial bodies of a certain category don't notice your asserted god? What do celestial bodies have to do with your god? You do know that stars and anything else in this universe came to existence after the universe came to existence, don't you? Are you claiming that your deity came into existence after the universe "materialized"?
For you analogy to work, I think you would need to be standing on the roof and pointing at ljhgiafvyfjtbgn (which I don't know what is, I just made it up).
Bingo.
So now you are not pointing at stars, but something else? Describe what is it that you are pointing at.
And even if I went up to the roof, you would still need to explain how do I detect ljhgiafvyfjtbgn.
Bingo.
Well, if you agree that you would need to explain how to detect ljhgiafvyfjtbgn, then start explaining!
You would need to show evidence that ljhgiafvyfjtbgn exists.
Besides the sighting?
Since you haven't pointed out what ljhgiafvyfjtbgn is, we cannot talk about sightings. First you would need to tell what ljhgiafvyfjtbgn is, and point it out. Then it will become a sigting.
Evidence like clearly pointing it out, so that it is distinct from anything else.
So when are you going to point out ljhgiafvyfjtbgn?
Evidence that accounts for every property of the asserted entity.
You have been repeatedly been asked to show some evidence.
I have given the you the floor level of the building.
I can further provide the police officers with exact zip, post code.
I am sorry. I cannot bring the sky down to the cellor. Its beyond my power.
I would really love to see evidence for the existence of any deities, including yours.
Oh really?
To follow your analogy, there is no obvious staircase or elevator leading to the roof.
You providing the evidence is like showing where the stairs are.
I see, you have never been even to the first floor. Sure, there is a first time for everyone.
You haven't managed to show that there is a staircase or elevator. That would be the evidence you still haven't given. Any time you are ready...
When will you start providing the evidence? Do you have any at all?
See above.
I did look above, and all I saw were the sky, some clouds and the usual, completely natural celestial bodies. No signs of anything supernatural. Or do you have evidence that there is something else there?
Yours is not an argument for god, it is rather a "No True Scotsman" logical fallacy mixed with blaming the victim, followed by a bad analogy.
I see, you dont actually want to leave the cellor even after claiming "I would really love to see evidence".
Do you mean that me rejecting logical fallacies and bad analogies means that I don't want to see evidence? How did you deduce that?