The Credentials of Religious Debaters - An Observation

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The Credentials of Religious Debaters - An Observation

#1  Postby MattHunX » Mar 25, 2010 8:37 am

Hey,

Just thought I'd share an observation of mine, which you may have made as well, after watching Sam Harris' recent debate with Chopra. It's about how debaters on the religious side, the ones I've seen so far (D'Souza, Boteach, Turek, Lennox, Chopra...etc.), always have to talk about their credentials, what degrees they hold and from where. Brag.

I've never seen any on the atheist side feeling the need to share it with the audience, especially that sometimes the moderators or whoever include it in their introduction of the debaters. But, apparently that doesn't stop theists from repeating it themselves, like they do with their "arguments", probably feeling insecure, and desperately trying to prove their expertise and credibility.

I'd say, there does seem to be an inferiority complex working here (which Sam Harris had pointed out also recently :lol: ) that compels these people to boast.
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Re: The Credentials of Religious Debaters - An Observation

#2  Postby Animavore » Mar 25, 2010 8:43 am

They're trying to be the authority people can use their arguments from.
It's like when a creationist uses the title "Dr" before his name and slaps a "Ph.D" after it. Their followers think that just because the man is an educated man then he must know what he's talking about even though the doctorate may be in computer programming.
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Re: The Credentials of Religious Debaters - An Observation

#3  Postby Poirot » Mar 25, 2010 3:24 pm

As far as I'm concerned, "religious" and "debate" do not belong in the same sentence.
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Re: The Credentials of Religious Debaters - An Observation

#4  Postby Karljett » Mar 25, 2010 3:27 pm

Poirot wrote:As far as I'm concerned, "religious" and "debate" do not belong in the same sentence.


With the crazy haired evangelists, yes. But I think you can get a pretty decent debate with some religious people.
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Re: The Credentials of Religious Debaters - An Observation

#5  Postby e2iPi » Mar 25, 2010 3:51 pm

Karljett wrote:With the crazy haired evangelists, yes. But I think you can get a pretty decent debate with some religious people.

Really? Where? I can honestly say that I have never had a good debate with a religious person, at least not on the overarching topic of religious belief.
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Re: The Credentials of Religious Debaters - An Observation

#6  Postby Goldenmane » Mar 25, 2010 4:00 pm

Animavore wrote:They're trying to be the authority people can use their arguments from.


This.

It's closely related to why argument from authority shows up so brain-meltingly often in arguments put forward by god's fanboiz. Funnily enough, and rather tellingly, they will only recognise such authority if it comes down on their side.

One example is Anthony Flew. Back when he was still compos mentis, they wouldn't have a bar of him. Now his brain is demonstrably in less than good working order, they're perfectly happy to cite "The man once described as the world's most notorious atheist", completely neglecting to acknowledge that the poor fucker rarely knows what fucking day it is. Oh, sure, he's an authority now that he can barely tie his own shoes, because he got duped into having his name on a book that he had almost no significant input into and was largely ghost-written. Wasn't so much of an authority back when he still had his entire set of marbles and routinely won all the jacks.

It's also why they always try to claim buggers like Einstein as their own. Ol' Mr Relativity is probably the most famous sciencey geek-bloke in history, or at least in the last hundred years or so. They tend to take one of two paths with such people: Either he's one of them, or he's full of shit, never graduated from highschool, and so forth.

It's why they got so fucking confused by Miller, too. Here's an open goddist demonstrating to the world how absolutely constructed of farts the Creationist argument actually is. He's the textbook counter to their insane argument from authority, since he demonstrably has the authority according to their own lights, and exercises said authority by pointing out that the warm rectal effusions they were releasing into the atmosphere aren't, in fact, conducive to general health.
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Re: The Credentials of Religious Debaters - An Observation

#7  Postby Poirot » Mar 25, 2010 4:02 pm

e2iPi wrote:
Karljett wrote:With the crazy haired evangelists, yes. But I think you can get a pretty decent debate with some religious people.

Really? Where? I can honestly say that I have never had a good debate with a religious person, at least not on the overarching topic of religious belief.
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Me neither. I've got nothing against crazy hairstyles, it's what goes on (or doesn't) underneath it that tells me all I need to know about the religious.
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Re: The Credentials of Religious Debaters - An Observation

#8  Postby MattHunX » Mar 25, 2010 4:09 pm

Goldenmane wrote:It's why they got so fucking confused by Miller, too. Here's an open goddist demonstrating to the world how absolutely constructed of farts the Creationist argument actually is. He's the textbook counter to their insane argument from authority, since he demonstrably has the authority according to their own lights, and exercises said authority by pointing out that the warm rectal effusions they were releasing into the atmosphere aren't, in fact, conducive to general health.


:lol:

Thanks for that! :cheers:

You people should be writers, write a few books, I swear!
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Re: The Credentials of Religious Debaters - An Observation

#9  Postby Goldenmane » Mar 25, 2010 4:23 pm

MattHunX wrote:
Goldenmane wrote:It's why they got so fucking confused by Miller, too. Here's an open goddist demonstrating to the world how absolutely constructed of farts the Creationist argument actually is. He's the textbook counter to their insane argument from authority, since he demonstrably has the authority according to their own lights, and exercises said authority by pointing out that the warm rectal effusions they were releasing into the atmosphere aren't, in fact, conducive to general health.


:lol:

Thanks for that! :cheers:

You people should be writers, write a few books, I swear!


I am.

I just haven't finished any of the books I've started. Yet.

Too much time spent here. :nono:

Thanks for the encouragement.
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Re: The Credentials of Religious Debaters - An Observation

#10  Postby I'm With Stupid » Mar 25, 2010 4:25 pm

Three words. Dr. Gillian McKeith. She pretty much sums up the whole BS factory.
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Re: The Credentials of Religious Debaters - An Observation

#11  Postby Goldenmane » Mar 25, 2010 4:29 pm

I'm With Stupid wrote:Three words. Dr. Gillian McKeith. She pretty much sums up the whole BS factory.


Name seems to ring a faint bell, but I'm too lazy to search and I can't place it.

Example?
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Re: The Credentials of Religious Debaters - An Observation

#12  Postby HughMcB » Mar 25, 2010 4:33 pm

Being a rather intelligent, good looking successful engineer with a masters degree and being rather well endowed, I never see the need of believers to brag and boast about their credentials or positive characteristics.

I suppose I'm just above all that.
Last edited by HughMcB on Mar 25, 2010 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Credentials of Religious Debaters - An Observation

#13  Postby MattHunX » Mar 25, 2010 4:35 pm

I'm With Stupid wrote:Three words. Dr. Gillian McKeith. She pretty much sums up the whole BS factory.


Oh, haven't heard of her. I will look her up. I take it she's an atheist and has a solid presentation on the whole BS thing.
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Re: The Credentials of Religious Debaters - An Observation

#14  Postby Animavore » Mar 25, 2010 4:40 pm

MattHunX wrote:
I'm With Stupid wrote:Three words. Dr. Gillian McKeith. She pretty much sums up the whole BS factory.


Oh, haven't heard of her. I will look her up. I take it she's an atheist and has a solid presentation on the whole BS thing.


:lol:

Shit. Milk just came out my nose.

Anyway she's not a "Dr." any more (technically she never was). They took her narrow ass to court and she can't use that title any more.

EDIT: Can't find Dara O'Brians piece on her on YouTube :(
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Re: The Credentials of Religious Debaters - An Observation

#15  Postby Karljett » Mar 25, 2010 4:46 pm

Poirot wrote:
e2iPi wrote:
Karljett wrote:With the crazy haired evangelists, yes. But I think you can get a pretty decent debate with some religious people.

Really? Where? I can honestly say that I have never had a good debate with a religious person, at least not on the overarching topic of religious belief.
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Me neither. I've got nothing against crazy hairstyles, it's what goes on (or doesn't) underneath it that tells me all I need to know about the religious.


You're generalizing too much. I know what you're talking about but you can't seriously lump all of them together into "the religious", in relation to their intelligence or ability to debate. That's not to say that some of them don't make outrageous claims without trying to back them up in any way, but not all of them, far from it.
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Re: The Credentials of Religious Debaters - An Observation

#16  Postby I'm With Stupid » Mar 25, 2010 4:49 pm

Goldenmane wrote:
I'm With Stupid wrote:Three words. Dr. Gillian McKeith. She pretty much sums up the whole BS factory.


Name seems to ring a faint bell, but I'm too lazy to search and I can't place it.

Example?

Ben Goldacre on Gillian McKeith.

He has a whole chapter on her in Bad Science. It's hilarious. The opening line is "Gillian McKeith, or to give her her full title, Gillian McKeith....." :grin:
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Re: The Credentials of Religious Debaters - An Observation

#17  Postby mmmcheezy » Mar 25, 2010 4:49 pm

Karljett, I understand what you're saying here, but I'm curious: you seem to be awfully sensitive to the generalizing of theists, but the thread you started in contained many generalizations courtesy of thedistillers about atheists. Where were you jumping to our defense then?
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Re: The Credentials of Religious Debaters - An Observation

#18  Postby Karljett » Mar 25, 2010 4:51 pm

mmmcheezy wrote:Karljett, I understand what you're saying here, but I'm curious: you seem to be awfully sensitive to the generalizing of theists, but the thread you started in contained many generalizations courtesy of thedistillers about atheists. Where were you jumping to our defense then?


I wouldn't go as far as awfully sensitive, I just think we shouldn't jump to conclusions, and choose our words a bit more carefully.
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Re: The Credentials of Religious Debaters - An Observation

#19  Postby mmmcheezy » Mar 25, 2010 4:53 pm

Karljett wrote:
mmmcheezy wrote:Karljett, I understand what you're saying here, but I'm curious: you seem to be awfully sensitive to the generalizing of theists, but the thread you started in contained many generalizations courtesy of thedistillers about atheists. Where were you jumping to our defense then?


I wouldn't go as far as awfully sensitive, I just think we shouldn't jump to conclusions, and choose our words a bit more carefully.


I understand, but why weren't you pointing this out to thedistillers?
You already have quite the interesting posting pattern. You focus on one point in someone's post and prod at it, and ignore everything else contained in the post [even if it's a pointed question].
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Re: The Credentials of Religious Debaters - An Observation

#20  Postby Animavore » Mar 25, 2010 4:57 pm

I'm With Stupid wrote:
Goldenmane wrote:
I'm With Stupid wrote:Three words. Dr. Gillian McKeith. She pretty much sums up the whole BS factory.


Name seems to ring a faint bell, but I'm too lazy to search and I can't place it.

Example?

Ben Goldacre on Gillian McKeith.

He has a whole chapter on her in Bad Science. It's hilarious. The opening line is "Gillian McKeith, or to give her her full title, Gillian McKeith....." :grin:


I can't endorse that book enough. It's educational and funny.
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