I want to go back to the story I posted about my dad and RM's admition that "the catchy phrase" works but there is sometimes a price to pay

Name me some examples where there isn't a price paid for the strength gained. My father and his brother paid for it with their loving emotions. The guy who loses a leg? While it may strengthen his character in some way, I'll bet in 99% of cases there will always be a degree of regret that the limb is gone. The person who fights cancer? I'll bet that in 99% of cases there is regret that time was lost through illness.

But on the whole, let's face it, for most people the trying time is on an emotional level, luckily losing limbs and serious illness affects a minority, for most people it's deaths, divorces, difficult relationships etc.

I am one of those, am I strong? Too fucking right I am. The cost? Barriers as big as the Great Wall of China. Do I like being this way? No. Do I wish I'd had a peaceful easy life? Too fucking right

I think there are lots and lots of members who could claim this experience as their own. Like me, if someone had told them "What Doesn't kill you makes you stronger" when they were in the middle of it that person would have got a kick in the balls. So your assertion that there's good advice in it is bollocks frankly

Paula1 wrote:I want to go back to the story I posted about my dad and RM's admition that "the catchy phrase" works but there is sometimes a price to pay

Name me some examples where there isn't a price paid for the strength gained. My father and his brother paid for it with their loving emotions. The guy who loses a leg? While it may strengthen his character in some way, I'll bet in 99% of cases there will always be a degree of regret that the limb is gone. The person who fights cancer? I'll bet that in 99% of cases there is regret that time was lost through illness.

But on the whole, let's face it, for most people the trying time is on an emotional level, luckily losing limbs and serious illness affects a minority, for most people it's deaths, divorces, difficult relationships etc.

I am one of those, am I strong? Too fucking right I am. The cost? Barriers as big as the Great Wall of China. Do I like being this way? No. Do I wish I'd had a peaceful easy life? Too fucking right

I think there are lots and lots of members who could claim this experience as their own. Like me, if someone had told them "What Doesn't kill you makes you stronger" when they were in the middle of it that person would have got a kick in the balls. So your assertion that there's good advice in it is bollocks frankly

And not only are kids being hurt when parents constantly shout at them, it's often indicative that they have to take more of other crap behind closed doors, such as physical and sexual abuse. You should think about that Raleigh next time you notice a parent often screaming at their kid/s.

Combine Paula1's two posts and DanDare's and you can see why people are not just accepting the platitude as the best way to raise a society.

Raliegh Marsden wrote:rEv...

The catchy phrase "If it doesn't kill you, it makes you stronger" is catchy because it's memorable, and straight to the point. At the expense of being catchy, it is true in less than 100% of cases. Why haven't I mentioned this before? Because it doesn't matter, and the reason why it doesn't matter is because the message within the phrase is a very positive and worthwhile message, and therefore worthy of being focussed on. I would rather focus on the message of the phrase than some technical nitpicky detail which detracts from the point being made. I really don't care that it's not always the case because there is some very good advice contained within that phrase. So, in an everyday, common sense way, if it doesn't kill you, it makes you stronger. And a stitch in time might save 10 rather than 9, but the point being made is far more important than the details.

Others have pointed out the fallacy of relying on "common sense", so I can only reiterate what they have said. The laws of our countries make certain acts carried out on other people illegal, and therefore we have both the legal and moral right to intervene if necessary. I know this goes against your sense of 'natural free man', but that's the cost of living in an organised and civilised society. We all sacrifice some of our personal freedoms in exchange for the benefits provided by society.

Some of you are getting confused. You somehow think that I believe in allowing kids to be abused. I don't. What I do believe however is that there's a difference between what you might call every day treatment, ie a good spanking here and there, a clip round the ear 'ole as we say in the UK, and a bit of shouting, and maybe the occasial shake.....and serious stuff like constant beatings and aggressive nastiness and so on. Do I believe that it's ok to spank kids from time to time if nec? Absolutely, yes I do. No problem with that whatsoever. But I don't class that as abuse, it's just normal.

So, if you put aside the serious stuff (which does deserve intervention) and focus on the normal stuff, then "if it don't kill ya, it makes you stronger" definitely applies. And if I had kids I'd command respect. How? In every possible way that doesn't involve physical punishment...with the option of using it if it becomes necessary. And if it was necessary, I'd do it anywhere, anytime.

But, we're not just talking about that, we're talking about "if it don't kill ya, it makes you stronger" in general.

Raliegh Marsden wrote:Some of you are getting confused. You somehow think that I believe in allowing kids to be abused. I don't. What I do believe however is that there's a difference between what you might call every day treatment, ie a good spanking here and there, a clip round the ear 'ole as we say in the UK, and a bit of shouting, and maybe the occasial shake.....and serious stuff like constant beatings and aggressive nastiness and so on. Do I believe that it's ok to spank kids from time to time if nec? Absolutely, yes I do. No problem with that whatsoever. But I don't class that as abuse, it's just normal.

So, if you put aside the serious stuff (which does deserve intervention) and focus on the normal stuff, then "if it don't kill ya, it makes you stronger" definitely applies. And if I had kids I'd command respect. How? In every possible way that doesn't involve physical punishment...with the option of using it if it becomes necessary. And if it was necessary, I'd do it anywhere, anytime.

But, we're not just talking about that, we're talking about "if it don't kill ya, it makes you stronger" in general.

I clearly provided my views with regard to this, can you please address them?

Paula, I just spent some time responding to rEv, and then I went for a piss. Be patient, you're next.

Ok paula, here's my reponse :

"If doesn't kill you, it makes you stronger", is a philosophy, an outlook. I have that outlook, so do many other people. It works for us. If you don't have that outlook, you don't benefit from it. If you choose to see things in a certain way, you'll get what you see. In the meantime, there are many people who choose to have a positive philosophy, and they benefit from it. They wouldn't have it if they didn't. We're not talking about objective reality, we're talking outlook. If I have a bad day, I can turn it around by changing my outlook, which affecs my thoughts, emotions, and actions. If you can't do that, maybe you should learn to do it. You can either waste your time rationalizing, or you can change your outlook.

Raliegh Marsden wrote:Ok paula, here's my reponse :

"If doesn't kill you, it makes you stronger", is a philosophy, an outlook. I have that outlook, so do many other people. It works for us. If you don't have that outlook, you don't benefit from it. If you choose to see things in a certain way, you'll get what you see. In the meantime, there are many people who choose to have a positive philosophy, and they benefit from it. They wouldn't have it if they didn't. We're not talking about objective reality, we're talking outlook. If I have a bad day, I can turn it around by changing my outlook, which affecs my thoughts, emotions, and actions. If you can't do that, maybe you should learn to do it. You can either waste your time rationalizing, or you can change your outlook.

I don't even think I'm surprised, that was about as useful as tits on a bull

And that doesn't surprise me. Keep rationalizing.

So, if you put aside the serious stuff

How do you get the world to just all be lovely and jolly?

When it comes to muscles and low grade mentality, I don't have a problem with challenges to strengthen. But using such platitudes as a way of life leads to the kind of problems that everyone alludes to, if not specified.

General question to mods, are you allowed to call someone a twat via PM?

!	MODNOTE The report regarding this post has been dealt with and closed. Durro

rEvolutionist wrote::tehe:

Oh ok, just curious

Raliegh Marsden wrote:Ok paula, here's my reponse :

"If doesn't kill you, it makes you stronger", is a philosophy, an outlook.

It's a statement , already proven wrong , that you keep spouting as if it magically made it real.

I have that outlook, so do many other people.
It works for us. If you don't have that outlook, you don't benefit from it.

Irelevant , fallacy of an appeal to consequence , and its begging the question.

If you choose to see things in a certain way, you'll get what you see.

The introduction to the definition of "delusion" and "bias".

In the meantime, there are many people who choose to have a positive philosophy, and they benefit from it.

Irrelevant , appeal to consequences and begging the question.

They wouldn't have it if they didn't.

Statement supported by what?I don't think that what doesn't kill you makes you "stronger" ,this isn't equivalent to "not challenging problems" or any kind of individual success , we have exemple of people with an easy upbringing succeeding , whereas those who don't are less likely to succeed , among those who live in the mud many simply never overcome the pressure of their environment.

We're not talking about objective reality, we're talking outlook.

Lol we are talking about reality , if you don't you are just saying bullshit .

If I have a bad day, I can turn it around by changing my outlook, which affecs my thoughts, emotions, and actions.

So ?Everybody i except you understood that making the statement as an universal truth , or making the fallacy of an appeal to consequence regardless of what can be observed is ....logically fallacious.

If you can't do that, maybe you should learn to do it. You can either waste your time rationalizing, or you can change your outlook.

You are the one rationalizing your statement wich is untrue by arguing that "you can't become strong without thinking that !"

Anyway , Raliegh , what is "getting stronger" all about ?

This

They wouldn't have it if they didn't.

contradicts this

If I have a bad day, I can turn it around by changing my outlook, which affecs my thoughts, emotions, and actions.

which brings the delusion that this

"If doesn't kill you, it makes you stronger"

is effective.

No it doesn't.

How can you just say things like that after IIzO decimated your 'philosophy'.