Life's purpose is to make Artificial General Intelligence

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Re: Life's purpose is to make Artificial General Intelligence

#21  Postby SafeAsMilk » Mar 19, 2018 1:11 pm

_exit wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:Other than starting with a pointless image, they don't seem quite the same. Say what you will about ZombieBotJordan, at least he made some attempt at the argument instead of this clickbait nonsense.


I guess I could have copy pasted the document's argument to the OP.

..but wait, wouldn't directly copy pasting everything (or large portions of stuff) in the document's argument to the thread/OP be against the rules?

Or you could state or summarize the argument in your own words, then link to the full argument for details. Copypasta isn't your only option, believe it or not. Stating in your own words would also show you actually have a clue what it's about.
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Re: Life's purpose is to make Artificial General Intelligence

#22  Postby Matthew Shute » Mar 19, 2018 1:13 pm

_exit wrote:
Matthew Shute wrote:After we've made AGI, I suppose we're to wait around for Henry or Jordan to come and give us our next purpose. It's considerate of him/them to keep us informed about our goals like this, isn't it?

:what:


Maybe AGI/ASI would convert us into stuff they need?

It wouldn't be the first time components in nature essentially cease to exist, in order to substantiate some subsequent stuff.


You're a lousier advocate than Ray Kurzweil, that's for sure. You appear to be acting contrary to your stated purpose, if only through sheer incompetence at persuading anyone that it's in their interest to do what you think they should do. Of course, your stated purpose and what you privately think you're doing could be two entirely different things. Jordan, the author of the piece you linked to, was banned for being just another troll.
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Re: Life's purpose is to make Artificial General Intelligence

#23  Postby _exit » Mar 19, 2018 2:45 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:
_exit wrote:Did you know that AGI work seeks to replicate something in humans called "general intelligence", regardless of how the word consciousness may be varyingly defined (or rather, regardless of how the word consciousness may be varyingly understood)?


Well, the wikipedia article on AGI does not start out well:

Artificial general intelligence (AGI) is the intelligence of a machine that could successfully perform any intellectual task that a human being can.


That use of any doesn't really describe the task of anyone doing research on AI, so really, the search for AGI is related to a set of tasks that somebody thinks represents a useful kind of AI. Useful to whom? Why, humans of course. With only humans to define the target 'intelligence', don't you think the language of 'general intelligence' is a bit grandiose? Some example tasks are listed a little later in the article, but such an article is only really pertinent to a non-expert who might want to pretend to understand what actual AI researchers are up to.

In sum, you're not after anything technical, here. In fact, the thread title you chose (related to the Bennett article you linked) is bordering on absurd. The problem of purpose is even worse than the problem of intelligence. People who want to get something done stick to words like function, which will get you back to focusing on the kinds of tasks you want the machine to perform. Who sets those priorities? Your thread is in the wrong subforum, because you're just asking philosophical questions. There's nothing wrong with that, but putting this kind of discussion into a technology subforum is also bordering on the absurd. There are very few folks contributing to threads like this who know very much about technology, anyway.


I'm just not seeing how your response above offers anything reasonable to the discussion; it doesn't change the fact that some of the planet's smartest people are working to replicate the human mind in inorganic form, and it doesn't change that AGI may need be humanity's final invention!

Also, as far as we can see, humans are things with quite profound general intelligence (See Wikipedia Neuroscience), so we base AGI's research goal on that outcome, although we still refer to other intelligences on the way to human like outcome.

(i.e. C elegans' intelligence/neuronal system has appropriately already been replicated, in an attempt to help to understand more complicated intelligences.. So artificial intelligence may occur in a gradation of intelligences, until human level is reached)
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Re: Life's purpose is to make Artificial General Intelligence

#24  Postby _exit » Mar 19, 2018 2:50 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:

The article at Research Gate to which you linked was written by somebody obsessed with purpose -- in other words, an ex-theist who's kinda missing the good old days. Perhaps life's purpose is to reach the stage of obsessing about life's purpose. If you are not, in fact, Jordan Micah Bennett, you're wasting your time on crap like that. Go and learn a respectable trade. Train as a certified electrician, and help people re-wire their kitchens.


The OP had reminded persons not to confuse the teleological argument (purpose in the realm of subjectivity/deities/religion), with teleonomy (purpose in the realm of objectivity/science); and notably this thread is concerned with purpose in the realm of science.

It looks like you didn't know that purpose could exist outside of subjective/theistic realms. (Time to update your beliefs I would say!)
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Re: Life's purpose is to make Artificial General Intelligence

#25  Postby Thommo » Mar 19, 2018 2:54 pm

So Henry, do you have any connection to Jordan?
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Re: Life's purpose is to make Artificial General Intelligence

#26  Postby _exit » Mar 19, 2018 2:55 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:OP seems to rely on an is/ought fallacy.


The OP doesn't occur on any such fallacy.

Looks like you didn't know about teleonomy.

See my response above.
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Re: Life's purpose is to make Artificial General Intelligence

#27  Postby _exit » Mar 19, 2018 2:58 pm

Thommo wrote:So Henry, do you have any connection to Jordan?


I saw the purpose hypothesis in a machine learning group on Facebook. I also found rationalskeptic as the 4th result in a "skeptic forums" google search.
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Re: Life's purpose is to make Artificial General Intelligence

#28  Postby Thommo » Mar 19, 2018 3:16 pm

Fair enough, thanks.

Welcome to the forum.
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Re: Life's purpose is to make Artificial General Intelligence

#29  Postby newolder » Mar 19, 2018 3:30 pm

How do nematode worms (most of the multi-cellular life on this rock) contribute to achieve this teleonomic purpose (making AGI)?
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Re: Life's purpose is to make Artificial General Intelligence

#30  Postby laklak » Mar 19, 2018 4:01 pm

We're gonna use their neurons in the AI matrix.
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Re: Life's purpose is to make Artificial General Intelligence

#31  Postby _exit » Mar 19, 2018 4:03 pm

newolder wrote:How do nematode worms (most of the multi-cellular life on this rock) contribute to achieve this teleonomic purpose (making AGI)?



Since researchers are not omniscient of how to compose the outcome and since computers are not yet at human level power traditionally, they approach research from elementary angles (i.e. celegans or somewhat general models such as Deep Learning algorithms), see how those attempts work, and build towards the goal.

There are other attempts, such as Henry Markram's bluebrain project, that directly contacts science regarding the human brain.
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Re: Life's purpose is to make Artificial General Intelligence

#32  Postby _exit » Mar 19, 2018 4:06 pm

Thommo wrote:Fair enough, thanks.

Welcome to the forum.


Thank you.
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Re: Life's purpose is to make Artificial General Intelligence

#33  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Mar 19, 2018 4:09 pm

_exit wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:OP seems to rely on an is/ought fallacy.


The OP doesn't occur on any such fallacy.

Except that it does, your blind dismissal notwithstanding.
Even if we ignore that intelligent life isn't the norm, that still doesn't mean life has an objective much less to create intelligence.

_exit wrote:Looks like you didn't know about teleonomy.

Looks like you like to blindly accuse your interlocutors of ignorance.
Your link doesn't refute, but rather admits the fact that teleonomy relies on making an is (intelligent life exists) into an ought (therefore intelligence is the objective of life).
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Life's purpose is to make Artificial General Intelligence

#34  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Mar 19, 2018 4:13 pm

_exit wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:

The article at Research Gate to which you linked was written by somebody obsessed with purpose -- in other words, an ex-theist who's kinda missing the good old days. Perhaps life's purpose is to reach the stage of obsessing about life's purpose. If you are not, in fact, Jordan Micah Bennett, you're wasting your time on crap like that. Go and learn a respectable trade. Train as a certified electrician, and help people re-wire their kitchens.


The OP had reminded persons not to confuse the teleological argument (purpose in the realm of subjectivity/deities/religion), with teleonomy (purpose in the realm of objectivity/science); and notably this thread is concerned with purpose in the realm of science.

There is no significant distinstion. Both cases confuse a perception of purpose with the existence of a purpose.

_exit wrote:
It looks like you didn't know that purpose could exist outside of subjective/theistic realms. (Time to update your beliefs I would say!)

Stop blindly acccusing your interlocutors of ignorance. It only serves to demonstrate dishonesty on your part.
If anything it is you that fails to understand that the map is not the terrain.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Life's purpose is to make Artificial General Intelligence

#35  Postby newolder » Mar 19, 2018 4:22 pm

_exit wrote:
newolder wrote:How do nematode worms (most of the multi-cellular life on this rock) contribute to achieve this teleonomic purpose (making AGI)?



Since researchers are not omniscient of how to compose the outcome and since computers are not yet at human level power traditionally, they approach research from elementary angles (i.e. celegans or somewhat general models such as Deep Learning algorithms), see how those attempts work, and build towards the goal.

... and nematode worms contribute, how?
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Re: Life's purpose is to make Artificial General Intelligence

#36  Postby Keep It Real » Mar 19, 2018 4:23 pm

People are free to "choose" their own purpose(s). Developing AGI may be some people's purpose, but it is rather narcissistic of anybody to claim any one goal to be the universally applicable goal of mankind. I mean you know what they say about opinions...everybody's got one...and everybody's fully entitled to their own.
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Re: Life's purpose is to make Artificial General Intelligence

#37  Postby newolder » Mar 19, 2018 4:26 pm

Keep It Real wrote:People are free to "choose" their own purpose(s). Developing AGI may be some people's purpose, but it is rather narcissistic of anybody to claim any one goal to be the universally applicable goal of mankind. I mean you know what they say about opinions...everybody's got one...and everybody's fully entitled to their own.

The claim is not a goal for mankind but a goal for life. If the OP has life = mankind then there's some category error somewhere.
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Re: Life's purpose is to make Artificial General Intelligence

#38  Postby _exit » Mar 19, 2018 4:28 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:

Except that it does, your blind dismissal notwithstanding.
Even if we ignore that intelligent life isn't the norm, that still doesn't mean life has an objective much less to create intelligence.

Looks like you like to blindly accuse your interlocutors of ignorance.
Your link doesn't refute, but rather admits the fact that teleonomy relies on making an is (intelligent life exists) into an ought (therefore intelligence is the objective of life).

There is no significant distinstion. Both cases confuse a perception of purpose with the existence of a purpose.

Stop blindly acccusing your interlocutors of ignorance. It only serves to demonstrate dishonesty on your part.
If anything it is you that fails to understand that the map is not the terrain.


On the contrary, one (the teleological argument) concerns subjectivity/deities/theism. The other (teleonomy) concerns science/objectivity.

Science is something used to construct things like computers (upon which you typed your message), and seeks to be objective.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectivity_(science)

It is clear by now that you entered this discourse, with the preconceived notion that purpose was merely subjective. As a result your responses ignore that purpose may be in the realm of objectivity/science.
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Re: Life's purpose is to make Artificial General Intelligence

#39  Postby Keep It Real » Mar 19, 2018 4:31 pm

Science is a manmade instrument and so can be designed to be objective. Life on this planet was not designed and so how can one impute objective purpose to it?
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Re: Life's purpose is to make Artificial General Intelligence

#40  Postby Keep It Real » Mar 19, 2018 4:32 pm

Sure you're an atheist _exit?
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