Hi friends

A single sentence or a verse without the text and the context could be sometimes misleading.
One cannot correctly understand the meaning of a word unless one knows the whole sentence in which it has been used; the value of a sentence could be best understood in a passage, and of a passage is best understood in a chapter. The reference to the context is therefore most essential for a useful discussion.

This is nothing but a common sense; everybody must agree to it, in my opinion.

Are there any differences to it or exceptions?

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Are you trying to excuse all those passages/statements in the koran that atheists keep pulling you up about?

The ones that say its ok to marry small children and beat women etc....

Edit to add etc, there's just soooo many

Paula1 wrote:Are you trying to excuse all those passages/statements in the koran that atheists keep pulling you up about?

The ones that say its ok to marry small children

Edit to add etc, there's just soooo many

Hi friend Paula1

I think there is no verse in Quran commanding Muslims to marry small children.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Ok, not having read it in full I'll give you that but didn't mohammed marry a 6yr old and was having sex with her ehen she was 9? The koran does not condemn this I don't believe

Also, you chose to disregard the rest of my text, e.g. beating women

Here's the problem. Your particular book of rectal masala is utter fucking drivel from start to finish. In what context could it ever be said to be anything else?

Well I quoted a rather more than just one out of context passage in the other thread. As yet, you have not responded.

Incidentally, if you do bother to respond, I would like you to include an explanation as to why the highest body counts seem to have occurred amongst factions other than the Meccans, to whom you claim the instructions referred. If you are correct, it rather seems like the instructions were not obeyed within their intended context.

Furthermore, we are talking about the Prophet of peaceTM, are we not? Why is someone spreading a message of peaceful coexistence talking about slaying anyone to begin with?

paarsurrey wrote:
One cannot correctly understand

I agree with one.

Paula1 wrote:Ok, not having read it in full I'll give you

Hi friend Paula1

I thank you for admitting that. Please quote the verses from Quran where it is mentioned .

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

campermon wrote:

paarsurrey wrote:
One cannot correctly understand

I agree with one.

Hi friend campermon

Please elaborate what have you agreed with.

Thanks

paarsurrey wrote:

Paula1 wrote:Ok, not having read it in full I'll give you

Hi friend Paula1

I thank you for admitting that. Please quote the verses from Quran where it is mentioned .

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

It's not mentioned; that's the point.

Muhammed married a six-year-old girl and fucked her when she was nine. This is an accepted fact by most Islamic scholars. Since your prophet did it, and it is not forbidden anywhere in the Quran, then this behaviour is permitted in Islam. More than this: A principle of Islam is that Muhammed's example is to be followed as much as possible. So pedophilia, according to Islam, in laudable behaviour.

Unless you can provide the verses in the Quran that chide Muhammed for doing this. I know this is not unheard of; in Sura 80, for example, Allah chastises Muhammed for frowning when someone asked him a question.

UnderConstruction wrote:Well I quoted a rather more than just one out of context passage in the other thread. As yet, you have not responded.

Hi friends

Our friend UnderConstruction has provided some verses in the thread:

posting.php?mode=quote&f=5&p=29716

He says that it is not clear to him that the verses pertain to infidels of Mecca who were at war with Muhammad and his followers at that point of time.

I provide the verses and some more verses connected with them:

[9:1] This is a declaration of complete absolution on the part of Allah and His Messenger from all obligation to the idolaters with whom you had made promises. [9:2] So go about in the land for four months, and know that you cannot frustrate the plan of Allah and that Allah will humiliate the disbelievers.
[9:3] And this is a proclamation from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the Greater Pilgrimage, that Allah is clear of the idolaters, and so is His Messenger. So if you repent, it will be better for you; but if you turn away, then know that you cannot frustrate the plan of Allah. And give tidings of a painful punishment to those who disbelieve,
[9:4] Excepting those of the idolaters with whom you have entered into a treaty and who have not subsequently failed you in anything nor aided anyone against you. So fulfil to these the treaty you have made with them till their term. Surely, Allah loves those who are righteous.
[9:5] And when the forbidden months have passed, kill the idolaters wherever you find them and take them prisoners, and beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent and observe Prayer and pay the Zakat, then leave their way free. Surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.
[9:6] And if anyone of the idolaters ask protection of thee, grant him protection so that he may hear the word of Allah; then convey him to his place of security. That is because they are a people who have no knowledge.
[9:7] How can there be a treaty of these idolaters with Allah and His Messenger, except those with whom you entered into a treaty at the Sacred Mosque? So, as long as they stand true to you, stand true to them. Surely, Allah loves those who are righteous.
[9:8] How can it be when, if they prevail against you, they would not observe any tie of relationship or covenant in respect of you? They would please you with their mouths, while their hearts refuse, and most of them are perfidious.
[9:9] They barter the Signs of Allah for a paltry price and turn men away from His way. Evil indeed is that which they do.
[9:10] They observe not any tie of relationship or covenant in respect of anyone who trusts them. And it is they who are transgressors.
[9:11] But if they repent and observe Prayer and pay the Zakat, then they are your brethren in faith. And We explain the Signs for a people who have knowledge.

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh ... 9&verse=10

Please go through the verses and give reasons of any ambiguity there. If one can be reasonably sure; that is enough.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

No, Paarsurrey, I asked you to state in your own words how it is clear that this only refers to the Meccans. If you cannot do this, please say so.

It is also possible that a few of my other questions slipped past your Morton's demon. If so, I would like answers to a few of those as well.

Also, what about the other quotes I provided from the other verses that you mentioned?

Shrunk wrote:

paarsurrey wrote:

Paula1 wrote:Ok, not having read it in full I'll give you

Hi friend Paula1

I thank you for admitting that. Please quote the verses from Quran where it is mentioned .

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

It's not mentioned; that's the point.

Muhammed married a six-year-old girl and fucked her when she was nine. This is an accepted fact by most Islamic scholars. Since your prophet did it, and it is not forbidden anywhere in the Quran, then this behaviour is permitted in Islam. More than this: A principle of Islam is that Muhammed's example is to be followed as much as possible. So pedophilia, according to Islam, in laudable behaviour.

Unless you can provide the verses in the Quran that chide Muhammed for doing this. I know this is not unheard of; in Sura 80, for example, Allah chastises Muhammed for frowning when someone asked him a question.

Nice try Shrunk but as you know there's another thread on this forum attempting to get two muslims to address the muslim treatment of women and girls but they are ignoring or fluffing over every question. Something to hide you think?

Paula1 wrote: Nice try Shrunk but as you know there's another thread on this forum attempting to get two muslims to address the muslim treatment of women and girls but they are ignoring or fluffing over every question. Something to hide you think?

Well, I'm just taking our "peaceful Muslim" at his word in that he is willing to engage in a fair and rational discussion of his beliefs.

So whenever you're ready, paarsurrey. I'm waiting for those Quranic verses that condemn child rape. If Allah saw fit to admonish the Prophet for frowning when a blind man asked him a question, surely Allah would give him an severe reprimand, at least, for raping a nine year old girl.

Shrunk wrote:
So whenever you're ready, paarsurrey. I'm waiting for those Quranic verses that condemn child rape. If Allah saw fit to admonish the Prophet for frowning when a blind man asked him a question, surely Allah would give him an severe reprimand, at least, for raping a nine year old girl.

Shrunk, can you prove that a nine year old girl was raped? What evidence do you have?

questioner121 wrote:

Shrunk wrote:
So whenever you're ready, paarsurrey. I'm waiting for those Quranic verses that condemn child rape. If Allah saw fit to admonish the Prophet for frowning when a blind man asked him a question, surely Allah would give him an severe reprimand, at least, for raping a nine year old girl.

Shrunk, can you prove that a nine year old girl was raped? What evidence do you have?

Do you think it is ever acceptable for a middle aged man to have sexual intercourse with a nine year old girl?

Straight yes or no answer please.

questioner121 wrote:

Shrunk wrote:
So whenever you're ready, paarsurrey. I'm waiting for those Quranic verses that condemn child rape. If Allah saw fit to admonish the Prophet for frowning when a blind man asked him a question, surely Allah would give him an severe reprimand, at least, for raping a nine year old girl.

Shrunk, can you prove that a nine year old girl was raped? What evidence do you have?

Is sex with a nine year old not rape then?

95Theses wrote:

questioner121 wrote:

Shrunk wrote:
So whenever you're ready, paarsurrey. I'm waiting for those Quranic verses that condemn child rape. If Allah saw fit to admonish the Prophet for frowning when a blind man asked him a question, surely Allah would give him an severe reprimand, at least, for raping a nine year old girl.

Shrunk, can you prove that a nine year old girl was raped? What evidence do you have?

Do you think it is ever acceptable for a middle aged man to have sexual intercourse with a nine year old girl?

Straight yes or no answer please.

No.

Millefleur wrote:

questioner121 wrote:

Shrunk wrote:
So whenever you're ready, paarsurrey. I'm waiting for those Quranic verses that condemn child rape. If Allah saw fit to admonish the Prophet for frowning when a blind man asked him a question, surely Allah would give him an severe reprimand, at least, for raping a nine year old girl.

Shrunk, can you prove that a nine year old girl was raped? What evidence do you have?

Is sex with a nine year old not rape then?

Please show me the evidence first.

questioner121 wrote:

95Theses wrote:

questioner121 wrote:

Shrunk wrote:
So whenever you're ready, paarsurrey. I'm waiting for those Quranic verses that condemn child rape. If Allah saw fit to admonish the Prophet for frowning when a blind man asked him a question, surely Allah would give him an severe reprimand, at least, for raping a nine year old girl.

Shrunk, can you prove that a nine year old girl was raped? What evidence do you have?

Do you think it is ever acceptable for a middle aged man to have sexual intercourse with a nine year old girl?

Straight yes or no answer please.

No.

There seems to be no reasonable doubt that Mohammed married Aisha when she was 6 and consummated the marriage when she was 9.

I've seen lots of Muslim apologists state that 'things were different back then' but not a single one that has said Mohammed was wrong to sleep with her aged 9 when he was well into middle age.