SafeAsMilk wrote:
Yeah, well it's done a really good job of that judging by the state of the Middle East

I'm guessing you're joking or playing devil's advocate.

Al-Fatihah wrote:

Keep It Real wrote:Ever heard of astronomy or astro-physics? The stars are not lamps; they're balls of nuclear fission, just like our star, the sun.

Response: Stars provide light just as a lamp does.

Thomas Eshuis wrote:

Al-Fatihah wrote:

Keep It Real wrote:

How do you know Islam isn't man made?

Response: From the Qur'an challenge , which is firsthand observable, testable evidence and deductive logic based on such evidence that the Qur'an is the true word of Allah. The challenge is as follows:

"Will they not then meditate upon the Qur'an? Had it been from anyone other than Allah they would surely have found therein much discrepancy."

Except that:
1. There are discrepancies in the Quran.
2. Asserting that if the number of discrepancies = 0, therefore it's written by a god, is a non-sequitur and not at all sound deductive reasoning.

Al-Fatihah wrote:
Here we have a test that demonstrates that there is no error in the Qur'an, showing the truthful nature of the Qur'an.

Except you really haven't.

Al-Fatihah wrote: If a person disagrees, then the individual can take up the challenge to find a discrepancy in the Qur’an

Wrong, the onus is first on you to demonstrate that the absence of discrepancies must mean it's written by a god.

Al-Fatihah wrote: and when the person discovers that there is no discrepancy, then the only logical conclusion that can be derived is that whomever the author of the Qur’an is, the individual is a truth teller and righteous because all of the content in the Qur’an is without error, indecency, and immorality, and it is a guidance to righteousness.

Nope, this is yet another non-sequitur.
According to the above logic all dictionaries are written by Allah as well.

Al-Fatihah wrote: The question still remains as to who is the author? The Qur’an answers this question with the following test. The Qur’an states:

"And if you are in doubt as to what We have sent down to our servant, then produce a chapter like it, and call upon your helpers beside Allah if you are truthful."

That's only yet another assertion.

Al-Fatihah wrote:Here we have a test which proves that it is not humanly possible to produce a chapter like the Qur'an

You can assert that, but that does not make it true.

Al-Fatihah wrote:
But before the a skeptic develops the common response of simply producing something in Arabic or claiming that the challenge is not valid because not being able to produce a play like Shakespeare does not mean that the play is from God so the same analogy applies to the Qur'an, let me further elaborate. The Qur'an, like any scripture, is inspiration. And like any scripture, its intent is to inspire people to follow its teaching. Thus the challenge is to produce something that is as inspirational as the Qur'an, for it is the inspiration of the Qur'an that is miraculous.

Nope, that challenge is completely irrelevant.

Al-Fatihah wrote:
"It is humanly impossible for a person/s to inspire enough followers to help him/her/ them conquer and rule a nation by using human-made speech/literature that goes against the likes and beliefs of those people."

People have managed to do so, just by talking without any written texts being necesary.
Also, ever heard of Mein Kampf?

Al-Fatihah wrote:
This is the miracle of Muhammad.

It's nothing of the sort.

Al-Fatihah wrote:For the challenge proves that it is humanly impossible to use speech or literature that goes against the majority and is invented by a person/s, to inspire enough followers amongst them to conquer and rule a nation.

Except it doesn't.
You blindly assert it does and try to shift the burden of proof onto others.

Al-Fatihah wrote:The skeptic still disagrees?

It has little to do with disagreement and everything with you demonstrating the soundness of your axioms.

Al-Fatihah wrote:Then take the challenge and prove differently.

Nope.
You are making the assertions, it's up to you to demonstrate they're true, not those who doubt to disprove them.

SafeAsMilk wrote:
A TV also provides light, that doesn't mean a TV is a lamp or a star.

I see you haven't really thought much about any of this.

Al-Fatihah wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:
Yeah, well it's done a really good job of that judging by the state of the Middle East

I'm guessing you're joking or playing devil's advocate.

Response: The Middle East is a reflection of non-Muslim atrocities, thus making my point.

Al-Fatihah wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:
A TV also provides light, that doesn't mean a TV is a lamp or a star.

I see you haven't really thought much about any of this.

Response: Nor does the Qur'an say stars are lamps, thus refuting yourself.

Qur’an 67:5—And We have (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with lamps, and We have made such (lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire.

SafeAsMilk wrote:
Blaming others for your failures, eh? Regardless, it is not the best way to sustain peace and love within society, because by all the evidence it has utterly failed to do so, to the point where it is demonstrably the worst way. Hand-waving away facts does not make your point.

SafeAsMilk wrote:

Qur’an 67:5—And We have (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with lamps, and We have made such (lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire.

Are you simply lying now, or is reading your own book too difficult?

Al-Fatihah wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:
Blaming others for your failures, eh? Regardless, it is not the best way to sustain peace and love within society, because by all the evidence it has utterly failed to do so, to the point where it is demonstrably the worst way. Hand-waving away facts does not make your point.

Response: Denial of your own crimes and failures is not the best way to sustain peace. Fingers in the ears for fear of being exposed is not a logical rebuttal.

Keep It Real wrote:What are the features of Islam that you think promote peace and love, Al-Fatihah?

SafeAsMilk wrote:
I haven't denied anything, you are the one denying your failures by saying that the reason for your religion's failure is because of others. If it was the best way of peace n' love, then there would be peace n' love. There isn't, so you fail, simple as that.

Al-Fatihah wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:

Qur’an 67:5—And We have (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with lamps, and We have made such (lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire.

Are you simply lying now, or is reading your own book too difficult?

Response: The word "stars" is mentioned no where.

Al-Fatihah wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:
I haven't denied anything, you are the one denying your failures by saying that the reason for your religion's failure is because of others. If it was the best way of peace n' love, then there would be peace n' love. There isn't, so you fail, simple as that.

Response: My religion has not failed,

supported by your repeated failure to quote anything from the Qur'an or Sunnah that shows otherwise.

If you don't apply Islam, that does not make Islam a fail but you the failure. Simple as that.

Keep It Real wrote:This thread needs more Blackadder.

Al-Fatihah wrote:

Animavore wrote:

Al-Fatihah wrote:Here we have a test that demonstrates that there is no error in the Qur'an, showing the truthful nature of the Qur'an.

Qur’an 67:5—And We have (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with lamps, and We have made such (lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire.

The Qur'an says that the stars in the sky are lamps, used as missiles, to ward off demons.

Response: Yes it does. It is a matter of the unseen and no human can see what is unseen to reliably say it does not occur or that the author of the Qur'an is unreliable to say it does not occur.