Almond milk hardly contains any almonds, a class action law

suit ensues. Hardly one of today's great problems, but..

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Re: Almond milk hardly contains any almonds, a class action law

#41  Postby Rachel Bronwyn » Jul 29, 2015 9:52 am

My problem isn't really so much that it's called almond milk (because goodness knows coconut milk isn't an appropriate dairy substitute either) but that it's advertised as a dairy substitute which is reinforced by the suggestion it's made from almonds which are protein-rich; a key quality of dairy substitutes. That's dishonest.
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Re: Almond milk hardly contains any almonds, a class action law

#42  Postby chango369 » Jul 29, 2015 9:52 am

Maybe I'm too much of a nutrition geek. This morning's breakfast is a porridge of my own concoction. It's a blend of oat bran, quinoa, chia seeds, buckwheat groats, and now freshly ground raw organic almonds :P , with cloves, cinnamon, turmeric (yes turmeric), allspice, blueberries, sweet cherries, a banana, purified water, a shot of coconut milk (regrettably canned, but at least not the one in container), a double shot of organic dairy milk and drizzle of honey.

Yes I'm a nutrition geek. :P
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Re: Almond milk hardly contains any almonds, a class action law

#43  Postby chango369 » Jul 29, 2015 9:56 am

Rachel Bronwyn wrote:My problem isn't really so much that it's called almond milk (because goodness knows coconut milk isn't an appropriate dairy substitute either) but that it's advertised as a dairy substitute which is reinforced by the suggestion it's made from almonds which are protein-rich; a key quality of dairy substitutes. That's dishonest.


:this:
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Re: Almond milk hardly contains any almonds, a class action law

#44  Postby Alan B » Jul 29, 2015 9:59 am

chango369 wrote:Maybe I'm too much of a nutrition geek. This morning's breakfast is a porridge of my own concoction. It's a blend of oat bran, quinoa, chia seeds, buckwheat groats, and now freshly ground raw organic almonds :P , with cloves, cinnamon, turmeric (yes turmeric), allspice, blueberries, sweet cherries, a banana, purified water, a shot of coconut milk (regrettably canned, but at least not the one in container), a double shot of organic dairy milk and drizzle of honey.

Yes I'm a nutrition geek. :P

Ah, but have you actually weighed the portions and worked out the nutrition amounts?
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Re: Almond milk hardly contains any almonds, a class action law

#45  Postby chango369 » Jul 29, 2015 10:04 am

Alan B wrote:
chango369 wrote:Maybe I'm too much of a nutrition geek. This morning's breakfast is a porridge of my own concoction. It's a blend of oat bran, quinoa, chia seeds, buckwheat groats, and now freshly ground raw organic almonds :P , with cloves, cinnamon, turmeric (yes turmeric), allspice, blueberries, sweet cherries, a banana, purified water, a shot of coconut milk (regrettably canned, but at least not the one in container), a double shot of organic dairy milk and drizzle of honey.

Yes I'm a nutrition geek. :P

Ah, but have you actually weighed the portions and worked out the nutrition amounts?


If you just consider the protein content, a serving of almond milk has only 1 gram, dairy and soy milk both contain 8 grams of protein. Soy milk's protein is arguably superior to dairy milk's, or if not so, soy milk's protein is advertised as being more heart healthy for reasons I've yet to analyze.

ETA: the following

Yikes Alan, I'm in such a rush to get to work that I didn't even answer your question! :doh: I could do that given the time, as I know the approximate portion. Tell you what, the next time I do it, I'll use a postal scale and weigh the number of grams and come with a fairly accurate "nutrition facts'" for the porridge I just described. That'll take some time, but it'd be worth it. I can say with reasonable certainty, that it would be jam packed with nutrients.

I have a somewhat subconscious understand of each of these ingredients and their nutrient contents, because I have entered in the gm, mg and μg values for the protein, lipids, and minerals for each of these with painstaking fashion, IOW, I instinctly know now what I'm getting based on the item selection.

What I don't know is what I'm getting based on the amount I'm using. But in general I'm using about a 1/4 to 1/3 cup of each of the grains and pseudo grain I'm using. This morning I used about .75 ounces of almonds for example. I'd have to weigh it all out and rely on the USDA database values for accuracy. Now you've got me on yet another project, dang it! :wink:

ETA: the prior ETA ! Caramba! :P
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Re: Almond milk hardly contains any almonds, a class action law

#46  Postby Rachel Bronwyn » Jul 29, 2015 10:09 am

Speaking for porridge, if you ever have a hankering for almond milk, make some (soak almonds overnight, buzz with water in blender, strain out almond meal) and do with it as you please but toast up the leftover almond meal in the oven and add it to oatmeal. SO good. Also makes a great crumble on top of muffins, etc.
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Re: Almond milk hardly contains any almonds, a class action law

#47  Postby Blip » Jul 29, 2015 10:27 am

I hope members don't consider it inappropriate for me to contribute to a thread from which I've split out some posts: I think not.

My own porridge tip is to use oat milk in place of almond milk, soya milk, dairy milk or water. Try it: you'll thank me.
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Re: Almond milk hardly contains any almonds, a class action law

#48  Postby chango369 » Jul 29, 2015 10:34 am

Blip wrote:I hope members don't consider it inappropriate for me to contribute to a thread from which I've split out some posts: I think not.

My own porridge tip is to use oat milk in place of almond milk, soya milk, dairy milk or water. Try it: you'll thank me.


Now you've got my attention. ARGHHHH, late for work ! Catch up with u later.
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Re: Almond milk hardly contains any almonds, a class action law

#49  Postby purplerat » Jul 29, 2015 1:20 pm

chango369 wrote:
purplerat wrote:
So if I buy a Raspberry Wheat Ale, brewed with real raspberries, I should expect that beer to have the the nutritional value of raspberries?

To extend that even further, should labels not include any ingredients which when processed do not have the same nutritional value as if they were eaten whole or raw?


C''mon now! The first part of your post is drifting towards absurdity. Is it reasonable to think that any consumer is purchasing their ale based on nutritional needs? :what:

Except it's not absurd from the legal perspective. See the previous comments about those who were upset and complained about pumpkin spice coffee not containing real pumpkin.

If somebody is purchasing something for their nutritional needs I don't think it's unrealistic to expect them to look at the nutritional label. No substitute is going to perfectly align with the nutritional value of what it is substituting. Even 2% milk doesn't come close to whole milk. Since the primary benefit of almond milk is that it's low calorie then somebody buying it for it's nutritional value should have the sense to realize that is going to come at a nutritional cost.

There's only so much hand holding you can do in trying to get people to eat healthy or pay attention to what they are eating.
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Re: Almond milk hardly contains any almonds, a class action law

#50  Postby Alan B » Jul 29, 2015 4:39 pm

chango369 wrote:Tell you what, the next time I do it, I'll use a postal scale and weigh the number of grams and come with a fairly accurate "nutrition facts'" for the porridge I just described. That'll take some time, but it'd be worth it. I can say with reasonable certainty, that it would be jam packed with nutrients.

OK. You might be surprised about the amount of energy your, er, 'simple' porridge contains. :smile:
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Re: Almond milk hardly contains any almonds, a class action law

#51  Postby Sciwoman » Jul 29, 2015 4:46 pm

chango369 wrote:soy milk ingredients.jpg[/attachment]
Sciwoman wrote:It has been a while, but I have used almond milk in my cereal. I'm mildly lactose intolerant, so while I can eat small amounts of cheese and yogurt, I can't handle just milk. Got tired of cereal, so we no long get any kind of faux milk.

I no more expected to find actual bits of almonds in almond milk any more than I expected to find bits of soy beans in soy milk or grains of rice in rice milk.


Sure, but contrast the vast difference between almond milk and soy milk, which I'd hope to be a fair comparison. Somehow, during the fractionating process, more of the nutrients made it through.

Behold, the protein, potassium, magnesium, phosphorus made it through the process in the case of soy, not so for almond milk. Pardon the formatting. If it appears too small use zoom. And Oldskeptic, there's a lot more to consider nutritionally that the components your post is focusing on. But I think I've made my point with respect to the protein alone.

At one time, I did use soy milk, but decided I liked the taste of almond milk better after trying it. Besides, the almond milk had fewer calories. I wasn't all that worried about the nutritional content of this one minor aspect of my diet as long as it was lower in calories and sugar. Nutrition is a balancing act during the day, not a one-shot deal from a single meal or food.
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Re: Almond milk hardly contains any almonds, a class action law

#52  Postby Blip » Jul 29, 2015 4:50 pm

Sciwoman wrote:
At one time, I did use soy milk, but decided I liked the taste of almond milk better after trying it. Besides, the almond milk had fewer calories. I wasn't all that worried about the nutritional content of this one minor aspect of my diet as long as it was lower in calories and sugar. Nutrition is a balancing act during the day, not a one-shot deal from a single meal or food.


:this: Nutrition is about overall diet, not one ingredient.
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Re: Almond milk hardly contains any almonds, a class action law

#53  Postby purplerat » Jul 29, 2015 5:29 pm

Sciwoman wrote:
At one time, I did use soy milk, but decided I liked the taste of almond milk better after trying it. Besides, the almond milk had fewer calories. I wasn't all that worried about the nutritional content of this one minor aspect of my diet as long as it was lower in calories and sugar. Nutrition is a balancing act during the day, not a one-shot deal from a single meal or food.

Exactly. You can't expect to substitute one item for another and just assume it will be nutritionally the same. If you switch from one to the other there is usually a reason and you can't expect to resolve one need (i.e. fewer calories/sugar) without incurring other changes in nutrition provided. It's just not realistic.

That's why in my house we have to keep both whole milk and 1%. My wife and I don't need the extra fat and calories in whole milk but the 1% wouldn't provide the necessary nutrients for the kiddos. There's no magic bullet that is going to fill all of our needs. Anybody looking for such a thing is being foolish.
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Re: Almond milk hardly contains any almonds, a class action law

#54  Postby lucek » Jul 29, 2015 6:13 pm

chango369 wrote:What I am about is that the manufacturer lists the ingredient as almonds. I maintain that it is not almonds, therefore call it what you like, almond derivative, hint of almond, specter of almond, almond extract, etc. You can call it anything you like, but NOT almonds.

My bold. Then you are wrong. It is as much almonds as beer is grains and hops.
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Re: Almond milk hardly contains any almonds, a class action law

#55  Postby lucek » Jul 29, 2015 6:23 pm

Sciwoman wrote:At one time, I did use soy milk, but decided I liked the taste of almond milk better after trying it. Besides, the almond milk had fewer calories. I wasn't all that worried about the nutritional content of this one minor aspect of my diet as long as it was lower in calories and sugar. Nutrition is a balancing act during the day, not a one-shot deal from a single meal or food.

:thumbup: Quoted for truth
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Re: Almond milk hardly contains any almonds, a class action law

#56  Postby Oldskeptic » Jul 29, 2015 9:54 pm

chango369 wrote:
purplerat wrote:
So if I buy a Raspberry Wheat Ale, brewed with real raspberries, I should expect that beer to have the the nutritional value of raspberries?

To extend that even further, should labels not include any ingredients which when processed do not have the same nutritional value as if they were eaten whole or raw?


C''mon now! The first part of your post is drifting towards absurdity.


No, it's not. Raspberries are a flavoring in the beer. Almonds are a flavoring in almond breeze. A flavoring with some nutritional value.

Nowhere does blue diamond claim that almond breeze is all almonds or even mostly almonds. From their advertising: "The creamy smooth texture and hint-of-almond taste make this non-dairy beverage a standout at standing in for milk."

So it doesn't have as much phosphorous or protein as milk, it does have the calcium, potassium, magnesium, vitamin A, and vitamin D of milk. Almond breeze has iron, fiber, and vitamin E that milk does not. It has half the calories of skim milk and one third the calories of 2%. Almond breeze has no sugar, no cholesterol, no saturated fats, and 1/4 of the carbohydrates as milk.

Is it reasonable to think that any consumer is purchasing their ale based on nutritional needs? :what:


In some cases people will be looking at total carbs and calories in their purchasing of beer, so yes. Just as people looking a milk and alternatives to milk in that way; The least carbs and calories and sugar and saturated fats. My youngest daughter drinks and uses almond milk in her coffee for those specific reasons. She doesn't like low fat milk, she calls it colored water, and says that almond milk has a nice flavor and texture.

Isn't is reasonable to state that when a consumer is purchasing a milk substitute as a replacement for dairy milk, be it almond milk, cashew milk or soy milk, that the choice is being made largely with nutrition in mind? :ask:


It is, and I'm sure most of them actually read the labels if nutrition is on their minds. Apparently the two bringing the law suit where too lazy or stupid to do that

Now the second part of your post is a more fair question. Omitting ingredients altogether would be a deal breaker, I would hope so, because not including them on the list at all would be troublesome indeed.

Your question does give me a chance to nuance my position a bit though. Whitewave's Silk Almond milk formulation is sufficiently fortified with vitamins and minerals (albeit necessarily and arguably so due to their natural content having been plucked out during processing) to the extent that if the class action were to go against them, that it'd be taken into consideration. Blue Diamond needs a comeuppance. Both companies are producing this product irresponsibly merely due to the lack of protein alone IMHO.


There isn't a lack of protein, there just isn't as much as milk.

Allow me to restate my main concern. Imagine a father or mother, shopping at the grocery store. They have all the best intentions of providing the highest quality nutrition for their children. They wheel past the beverage section where milk is sold, and notice for the very first time that almond milk is on offer. "Why look at that, a milk substitute based on almonds!"

They are somewhat nutritionally conscious, but fail to analyze the nutrition facts rigorously.


Then that's their own mistake not the people that conspicuously list their ingredients and nutritional values.

They make even read the ingredient list, but what they there see doesn't impact their ultimate decision.

They purchase the product as a direct replacement for dairy milk, perhaps basing the decision on its lower caloric content and/or lower fat content, etc. In other words, they make a decision based on a partial analysis. :doh:


Then that's their mistake not the people that conspicuously list their ingredients and nutritional values.

Well guess what, they just created a protein deficit for their child.


That is laughable. As if the only place the child will get protein is in the milk they drink.

Not only that, but they've also created a phosphorus deficit. So what, one might ask. Do I need explain the problem with their having reduced the protein intake of their growing child? :ask: With phosphorus, is that such a big deal? :ask:

Well, phosphorus is a very key nutrient, being a component of a compound that has been described as the coin of the realm with respect to cellular biology: adenosine triphosphate


And with three cups of milk a day the recommended daily intake of phosphorus is exceeded by 5%. And excess phosphorus depletes calcium in the body. So, if you're letting you kid drink milk three times a day to get enough phosphorus you'd better cut out cheese, nuts, fish, yogurt, pork, beef, soy products, and beans. Because with small servings of cheese one oz, yogurt 100grams, fish three oz, pork three oz, beef three oz, and beans 100grams you've fed the little tykes 137% of the recommended daily intake of phosphorus. This illustrates how easy it is to get the recommended daily intake of phosphorus, not to mention that with diet along those lines you'll also exceed the recommended daily intake of protein.

So, unless the only thing that you feed your kid is milk, there are no worries.

After all, it's very key to the biological processes of both glycolysis and the citric acid cycle and those are just for starters.

These are not trivial things people.

I could go on, but isn't that enough?


Yes, that is quite enough.
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Re: Almond milk hardly contains any almonds, a class action law

#57  Postby chango369 » Jul 30, 2015 12:19 am

Oldskeptic wrote:

Yes, that is quite enough.


I agree. This sort of endless argument results in pointless strife. Tell you what, you "win". It's not worth the fucking time to continue an exercise in futility.
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Re: Almond milk hardly contains any almonds, a class action law

#58  Postby chango369 » Jul 30, 2015 12:22 am

Alan B wrote:
chango369 wrote:Tell you what, the next time I do it, I'll use a postal scale and weigh the number of grams and come with a fairly accurate "nutrition facts'" for the porridge I just described. That'll take some time, but it'd be worth it. I can say with reasonable certainty, that it would be jam packed with nutrients.

OK. You might be surprised about the amount of energy your, er, 'simple' porridge contains. :smile:


It isn't really simple is it. It'd be a lot of work. Are you really interested in knowing the results?
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Re: Almond milk hardly contains any almonds, a class action law

#59  Postby Rachel Bronwyn » Jul 30, 2015 6:31 am

You can't expect one food to fulfill all your nutritional requirements but you should be able to expect something marketed as a dairy alternative fulfills the nutritional requirements of dairy.
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Re: Almond milk hardly contains any almonds, a class action law

#60  Postby Blip » Jul 30, 2015 7:35 am

Rachel Bronwyn wrote:You can't expect one food to fulfill all your nutritional requirements but you should be able to expect something marketed as a dairy alternative fulfills the nutritional requirements of dairy.


I avoid dairy (for the reasons being explored in the posts I split out) so for me a product needs to fulfill the role of dairy rather than its nutritional profile: I can easily replace the nutrients with other elements of my diet.
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