Calilasseia wrote:michael^3 wrote:hackenslash wrote:There are secular arguments against abortion, but that doesn't mean there are any good ones. 'I don't like it because it's icky, therefore it should be banned' is a perfectly valid argument against abortion, but it's a shit one.
The pro-choice argument often boils down to "I think pregnancy is icky". Just listen to pro-choicers, and invariably, at some point, pregnancy will be presented as if it is some kind of disease, an injustice to women, or even a borderline cancer.
This is, quite simply, bullshit. No pro-choice supporters think pregnancy is "icky". Indeed, when a woman
wants to be pregnant, we rejoice in her choice. Look up the word "choice" and learn what it means. If a woman
wants to have children, we support her choice to do so. But we
also support the choice of women who, for various reasons,
don't want to become pregnant, and support their access to contraception, backed by medically safe abortion. In the light of this elementary fact, take your strawman caricature and insert it back into the orifice whence it manifestly came.
indeed, our position consists, in case you hadn't worked this out, of "since it's the woman who will bear the burden of pregnancy, and in many instances, 20 years of subsequent child rearing, she should have complete freedom of choice as to whether to bear this burden". The only opposition I've ever seen to this entirely proper and reasonable position, has come from assorted nutjobs (usually men, I notice), who think that having a mythology rectally inserted bestows upon them the privilege of being able to control the behaviour of others. The most pathological instances usually being coupled to Abrahamic mythologies, because said mythologies are rampantly misogynistic to begin with. All that fatuous business with the asserted talking snake and the asserted magic fruit, purportedly constituting a "reason" why women should be nothing but subservient incubators, being the ultimate source of the misogyny we see running rampant through those mythologies.
michael^3 wrote:OlivierK wrote:That's how pro-choice arguments sound to you? Wow, there's an insight into confirmation bias if there ever was one.
the other pro-choice argument you can always read between the lines is that we are entitled to our 15 minutes of fun, and damn the consequences.
What is this? Was this post compiled as a competition entry for "Let's Erect The Most Fatuous Strawman Possible" or something?
In case you hadn't worked this out, it's
because there are consequences to sex, including some pretty serious ones for the woman, that we support a woman's right to have access to means of
avoiding those consequences if she so chooses. Here's a clue for you: it doesn't matter how much assorted wankers wedded to mythology rail about this, humans are going to continue having sex. It's the most powerful urge any of us will ever experience. Telling us not to pay attention thereto, simply because an imaginary magic man purportedly says so, is retarded bullshit. The truly
intelligent way forward, is to recognise that this urge is present, and take steps to steer people through the minefield using methods that
work. Preaching abstinence doesn't work, whilst contraception almost always does, and on those rare occasions when it doesn't, we have a backup that also works.
Look, let's ditch once and for all this slimy caricature that's erected, usually by fundie wankers, that a woman who wants to exercise control over her reproductive destiny is a "slut". She isn't, she's a normal human being and a normal woman. Drop the fucking Palaeolithic mythology-based view of women as fucking property, and enter the 21st century. Sticking your dick into a woman doesn't make you her "owner". If it takes place with her consent, it makes you someone she wants to have a sexual relationship with. If it takes place without her consent, it makes you her rapist.
At bottom, all the so-called "arguments" I've heard against abortion boil down to "punish the sluts". It's about reducing women to chattel status, so that they become a limitless source of compliant pussy for piss-smelling old bastards who otherwise couldn't even get laid with an inflatable doll. People like Rush Limbaugh, who makes Jabba the fucking Hutt look like an oiled Chippendale, who only backed down from calling a woman a slut on his radio show because sponsors threatened to pull the plug on his money source. Frankly, the aetiology and the pathology of mythology-based misogyny stinks, and railing against abortion on the part of most of the mythology fetishists ultimately reduces to "how dare you not submit your pussy to my control". That's ultimately what it's all about, wielding control over pussy. Well, I have news for you all. There's more to a woman than her plumbing, she also has a brain, he has thoughts, she has feelings, and, as far as I and every other reasonable human being is concerned, because she's a fully paid up member of
Homo sapiens, that means she has rights too, including the right to tell arrogant wankers wanting to control her body to fuck off and die in a fire.
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