angelo wrote:Wouldn't a bullet between the eyes of a convicted rapist deter some from ever contemplating rape? Providing of course that it must be highly publicised throughout India.

Paul wrote:

angelo wrote:Wouldn't a bullet between the eyes of a convicted rapist deter some from ever contemplating rape? Providing of course that it must be highly publicised throughout India.

The problem isn't that the deterrent isn't effective, it's that a deterrent should even be needed.

monkeyboy wrote:

CdesignProponentsist wrote:

monkeyboy wrote:I'm saddened that they will execute this guy for the rape.

I'm not. Fuck him.

I hope he ponders deeply on his impending doom up to until the very second it arrives.

He only feels sorry for himself for being in this situation. However, its all the victim's fault in his mind, if she hasn't blah blah blah, he wouldn't have.......(not repeating the repugnant shit)

The true punishment comes when he experiences some genuine empathy for his victim along with remorse. That's not going to happen by leaving him in a cell until they day he hangs.
I've worked with offenders and seen the shift from arrogant justification of their actions to the hammer blow of realisation of just what amount of harm their actions have had and the acknowledgement that they, and only they, were responsible for their actions. We've had to put some guys on suicide watch following that switch before now. It is a powerful mind flip. You never know, he might be back in the follow up to the documentary as a humble but outspoken critic of his former attitude and actually do some good in joining the battle against people who hold the beliefs he had when he raped and killed. If not, just leave him quietly locked away where he can't harm another woman again.

I don't agree with the death penalty.

monkeyboy wrote:Sounds more like embarrassment at the bad publicity this case has brought to india and an attempt to make it go away by attempting to brush it firmly under the carpet. Unfortunately, the world knows what's under there already.
Now if they could move onto addressing the attitudes which have led to multiple episodes of rapes and murders of women, perhaps India's ministers wouldn't need to worry about their carpets beginning to look like a map of the Himalayas!

Doubtdispelled wrote:

Nicko wrote:
If the penalty for rape is death, the rapist has nothing to lose and much to gain by killing his victim (who is normally also the only witness).

Which is almost exactly the same argument that the rapist in the video put forward for not executing him.... he said that if he was killed, then more women would die ...

Doubtdispelled wrote:... but then he also claimed that if a woman didn't fight and just let herself be raped then she wouldn't be killed.

I'm With Stupid wrote:This is what often happens in developing countries though. As the economy develops, women tend to get more freedom, and the men who used to control them by controlling the money find that they no longer can. This often creates a backlash. You'll often hear things about Western values destroying the local culture. By Western values, they mean things like women no longer being required to stay with an abusive husband for economic reasons, so divorce rates rise and women marry later. When I mentioned the class system, I didn't mean to imply that it was automatically those in higher classes abusing women in lower classes, just that the whole system gets people to see the "other" group as separate. Men like these rapists have probably spent most of their life being treated like shit because of their social status. It's no secret that men of low social status in any culture are more likely to feel insecure and react violent to perceived threats to what little status they have. This is particularly true in cultures with greater inequality, which is what often happens in developing countries as little of the new found wealth filters down to those on the bottom rung. And when they see women enjoying the freedom that this new wealth brings (acting against many of the values that these men grew up with), there might be a tendency in certain insecure men to put women back in their place. The victim in this case might not have been from a particularly wealthy background, but she was definitely a modern, upwardly mobile woman.

I watched the documentary, and the 28 year-old rapist they interviewed claimed that he'd only had sex once in his life. His social status probably made his marriage prospects pretty slim. He didn't earn enough money to pay for prostitutes. It wouldn't be surprising for someone like that to be harbouring a hell of a lot of bitterness about women, and especially women who society sees as superior to him.

Teague wrote:

monkeyboy wrote:I don't agree with the death penalty.

Even if it was your wife they raped and killed? What about your daughter?

Teague wrote:

monkeyboy wrote:Sounds more like embarrassment at the bad publicity this case has brought to india and an attempt to make it go away by attempting to brush it firmly under the carpet. Unfortunately, the world knows what's under there already.
Now if they could move onto addressing the attitudes which have led to multiple episodes of rapes and murders of women, perhaps India's ministers wouldn't need to worry about their carpets beginning to look like a map of the Himalayas!

So basically they don't like what this asshole has to say because it brings it far too close to home for their liking? When you have someone saying how women deserved to be brutally fucked and murdered, that's going way too far and actually shows the problem in all it's glorius brutality, so much so that the people might actually want something done against it.

Fuck the Indian Gov't. Everyone should watch this shit so they know how fucked up it is and demand more action to stop it.

Nicko wrote:

Teague wrote:

monkeyboy wrote:I don't agree with the death penalty.

Even if it was your wife they raped and killed? What about your daughter?

If someone harmed my daughter, I would certainly want to kill them. Slowly.

Which is of course why civilised societies don't allow justice to be meted out on the basis of, "What if it was your wife or daughter?"

Doubtdispelled wrote:Review of the film here

And the closing comment

India’s Daughter doesn’t malign India, but Naidu’s statement about a “conspiracy” does demonstrate, with an acute lack of self-awareness, what lies at the heart of the nation’s rape crisis.

Naidu isn’t implying that rape is shameful; but that talking about rape is shameful because it draws attention to the fact that it happens at all. This fear is exactly what prevents rape victims from filing police complaints, and, as a result, emboldens rapists to strike again and again. In fact, Udwin has done what India’s politicians should rightfully be doing: investigating rape cases thoroughly and discussing them openly.

While eloquently expressing his love for his daughter, Badri Singh tells Udwin: “I wish that whatever darkness there is in the world should be dispelled by this light.”

The Indian government has thwarted his wishes. By banning this documentary it has deprived the Singhs of the opportunity to share the story of their daughter widely within India. In attempting to push a conversation about rape back into the closet, it has stigmatised the subject further. It has done more damage to India’s reputation, and, far worse, the fight against rape, than any film ever could.

IMO, it should say 'Naidu isn’t implying that to rape is shameful; but that talking about being raped is shameful because it draws attention to the fact that it happens at all.

cavarka9 wrote:

Teague wrote:

monkeyboy wrote:Sounds more like embarrassment at the bad publicity this case has brought to india and an attempt to make it go away by attempting to brush it firmly under the carpet. Unfortunately, the world knows what's under there already.
Now if they could move onto addressing the attitudes which have led to multiple episodes of rapes and murders of women, perhaps India's ministers wouldn't need to worry about their carpets beginning to look like a map of the Himalayas!

So basically they don't like what this asshole has to say because it brings it far too close to home for their liking? When you have someone saying how women deserved to be brutally fucked and murdered, that's going way too far and actually shows the problem in all it's glorius brutality, so much so that the people might actually want something done against it.

Fuck the Indian Gov't. Everyone should watch this shit so they know how fucked up it is and demand more action to stop it.

they dont want this guy being given a podium to have his views heard and they dont want the tourism to suffer.

Teague wrote:Fuck the Indian Gov't. Everyone should watch this shit so they know how fucked up it is ...

Teague wrote:... and demand more action to stop it.

cavarka9 wrote: they are trying to have it be banned every where by saying the the film maker has violated the terms and conditions. The govt recently gave a visa on arrival to abt 150 countries only recently. Also it is pointless precisely because it is unscripted. I dont think people would have banned it had it not been for the criminal airing it. That is seen unacceptable.

Teague wrote:I think people who are against the death penalty are looking at the victim. They don't know them and don't care about them so they can show more sympathy for the murderer.

Teague wrote:I tend to look at it as if it was my wife/daughter/friend.

Teague wrote:The point where I stop believing in the death penalty is the point it goes to trial because fuckwits convict innocent people but I have no sympathy at all for people who murder others - good riddance as far as I'm concerned.

Teague wrote:

cavarka9 wrote:

Teague wrote:

monkeyboy wrote:Sounds more like embarrassment at the bad publicity this case has brought to india and an attempt to make it go away by attempting to brush it firmly under the carpet. Unfortunately, the world knows what's under there already.
Now if they could move onto addressing the attitudes which have led to multiple episodes of rapes and murders of women, perhaps India's ministers wouldn't need to worry about their carpets beginning to look like a map of the Himalayas!

So basically they don't like what this asshole has to say because it brings it far too close to home for their liking? When you have someone saying how women deserved to be brutally fucked and murdered, that's going way too far and actually shows the problem in all it's glorius brutality, so much so that the people might actually want something done against it.

Fuck the Indian Gov't. Everyone should watch this shit so they know how fucked up it is and demand more action to stop it.

they dont want this guy being given a podium to have his views heard and they dont want the tourism to suffer.

Yes because they don't like what he's saying and it shows they have a problem with rape which results in less people wanting to go there. Good, let them rot if they've managed to create a society of rapists. When they can change it they can have tourists go back there and feel safe.

Alan B wrote:

cavarka9 wrote: they are trying to have it be banned every where by saying the the film maker has violated the terms and conditions. The govt recently gave a visa on arrival to abt 150 countries only recently. Also it is pointless precisely because it is unscripted. I dont think people would have banned it had it not been for the criminal airing it. That is seen unacceptable.

I see a certain amount of hypocrisy from the 'banners' of this documentary from the government downwards. If it is 'banned' in India as some people claim and want to see happen, why is it being broadcast on a live Hindi/English news channel in the UK (NDTV 24/7 UK Sky channel 511) this Sunday at 15:30? (It could still get withdrawn, I suppose).

'6pm Prime' news is being shown now (12:30 UK) where they say that Google has withdrawn the program link under pressure.

With the amount of protesting going on in India, I'm beginning to get the impression that certain people don't want to see the ugly truth perhaps about themselves (their indoctrinated views about women) and the society they live in.

To paraphrase a well known saying: Methinks the protesters doth protest too much...

Note: BBC4 is showing the program again this Sunday at 22:00.

Nicko wrote:

Teague wrote:Fuck the Indian Gov't. Everyone should watch this shit so they know how fucked up it is ...

Yep.

Teague wrote:... and demand more action to stop it.

Such as? Here's the redoubtable AP Singh weighing in on the issue of female autonomy.

"If my daughter or sister engaged in pre-marital activities and disgraced herself and allowed herself to lose face and character by doing such things, I would most certainly take this sort of sister or daughter to my farmhouse, and in front of my entire family, I would put petrol on her and set her alight."

AP Singh is not a convicted criminal. He's not even some retarded media pundit; the Indian Rush Limbaugh. He's a lawyer. One of the lawyers who defended the rapists in this case.

I have a nasty feeling that only time and progress will solve this problem.

Teague wrote:Even if it was your wife they raped and killed? What about your daughter?

Teague wrote:I think people who are against the death penalty are looking at the victim. They don't know them and don't care about them so they can show more sympathy for the murderer.

I think

cavarka9 wrote:they see it as something not being done for humanitarian reasons as much as something to undermine India with racist undertones.I dont think they would have minded if it was done by an indian film maker!