So, most of you know me. Some of you know me from the Richard Dawkins forum before the SOB shut it down, maybe of you know me from this forum where I actively participated, at least when it was worthwhile.

Some background.

I am a revolutionary and Marxist, I say this with pride. I am proud to be a member of the International Marxist Tendency and last October I joined Fightback, the Canadian section of the IMT. The Brits here may remember the Militant Tendency which operated under the Entryist strategy in Labour Party, the minority that opposed abandoning this strategy founded the IMT. I am confident in the ideas of Marxism and this organization to build the revolutionary tendency in the world and we are currently active in over 30 countries. Unlike the small sectarian left-groups, the most famous being the opportunist SWP which is crumbling, we are making great gains across the world, our friends and enemies know this. We cannot create a revolution, but we can steer and direct it towards victory as the Bolsheviks did.

Let me get to the point. The largest section of the IMT is in Pakistan, this is a poor, backwards and Muslim country in which we have been able to build the forces of Marxism, we have our martyrs and our comrades in Pakistan especially face danger every day. This cuts through the prejudices of building the most politically progressive forces of Marxism in a backwards country! The latest Congress this week had around 2800 comrades attending, this is very significant.

So? Why did I create this thread?

Well, I'm sure you've all heard of the brave 14 year old Pakistani girl Malala Yousafzai who was brutally shot by the Taliban. Last summer she had attended the IMT Marxist school in SWAT Valley, as I noted in a thread here where I was criticized for trying to use her for political purposes by calling her an IMT and Marxist sympathizer.



http://www.rationalskepticism.org/news- ... l#p1499315

To quote Cdesign, one of the ardent capitalists and imperialists on this forum:

It would seem you are attempting to use this tragedy as a political tool which frankly I find a bit disgusting.

Well, my friends, at the latest Pakistani Congress, a message by Malala Yousafzai, currently recovering in the UK, was read to the Congress. I will quote from the article summarizing the historic event in Pakistan.

http://www.marxist.com/historic-32nd-co ... -imt-1.htm

Comrade Javed Iqbal, a Pakistani comrade from Birmingham in the UK, intervened to read out a message that had been sent from Malala Yousafzai, the young sympathiser of the Marxist Tendency famous for her part in the struggle for the right to education for girls in Pakistan. She had taken part in the national Marxist Summer School in July of last year in Swat. She was tragically shot in the head in a barbaric attack by fundamentalists, and made headlines worldwide. She is now thankfully recovering in the UK.

The message she sent reads as follows:

“First of all I’d like to thank The Struggle and the IMT for giving me a chance to speak last year at their Summer Marxist School in Swat and also for introducing me to Marxism and Socialism. I just want to say that in terms of education, as well as other problems in Pakistan, it is high time that we did something to tackle them ourselves. It’s important to take the initiative. We cannot wait around for any one else to come and do it. Why are we waiting for someone else to come and fix things? Why aren’t we doing it ourselves?

“I would like to send my heartfelt greetings to the congress. I am convinced Socialism is the only answer and I urge all comrades to take this struggle to a victorious conclusion. Only this will free us from the chains of bigotry and exploitation.”

It continues, an important part worth quoting:

This was also one of the several moving moments of the congress. A close friend of Malala was also present at the congress, who was on the bus when the girls were attacked. She spoke, making some comments and reading out a poem. This young female comrade is an example of the calibre of comrades that belong to the IMT in Pakistan. In fact, throughout the congress comrades intervened from areas, where gang fighting, killings, bomb blasts, drone attacks, and generalised warfare is taking place. Listening to them makes one’s blood boil, as it graphically brings home the immense contradictions and injustices in this class ridden society.

The bourgeois media was all over the story of Malala getting shot brutally by fundamentalists, yet, no one dared mention her political activity or views. It is clear that before she got shot, her attendance at the Marxist School in SWAT Valley had a big influence on the development of her political views, remember, this is a 14 year old girl looking for answers to her country's barbarity. While she was in critical condition, the media went on and on to use her story as a source of propaganda for political purposes, the media of course loves a story of a pretty young girl getting shot by the brutal Pakistani Taliban.

Yet, will the media report this? In her own words:

" I am convinced Socialism is the only answer and I urge all comrades to take this struggle to a victorious conclusion. Only this will free us from the chains of bigotry and exploitation."

Of course not! It would not fit the capitalist and imperialist narrative of fighting the Taliban for political purposes while allowing barbarity to continue in Pakistan. Only through the revolutionary overthrow of capitalism and the socialist transformation of society can we end barbarity, only through socialism can women actually be freed. Only through socialism can everyone have access to education, health-care, and the necessities of life. Only through the forceful overthrow of the capitalist system which has since long lost its objectively productive purpose can we bring about a civilized world. Unlike the Young Hegelians that Marx challenged during his time, similar to the petty-bourgeois "New Atheists" and liberals today that believe the problem in this particular event is religion, we Marxists understand that religious illusions arise out of material conditions. Fix the material conditions, and the illusions of religion over time will no longer be necessary. For the unity of the working class across national, ethnic, and religious lines, in opposition to the oppressive bourgeoisie!

Down with Capitalism! Onwards with the Socialist Revolution!

At the age of fifteen, who doesn't?

natselrox wrote:At the age of fifteen, who doesn't?

Funny coming from an Indian, that is, one of the most barbaric countries on the face of this Earth. If the advanced western countries cannot solve their problems under capitalism, then the developing countries definitely cannot. For her to arrive at such a conclusion at such a young age is something to admire. At least reply with a rational comment instead of using that old "age" bullshit. Then again, I left this forum for a reason, it's a supposedly "rational" forum yet it's hard to come across rationality anymore here.

Pakistan has the largest revolutionary leadership in the world, that is, the subjective factor required for the victory of a revolution as was the case in Russia with the Bolsheviks under Lenin and Trotsky (unfortunately there was the isolation of revolution due to failure of revolution in Germany, material conditions after foreign backed Civil War leading to rise of bureaucracy which with Stalin led the bureaucratic counter-revolution). Pakistan had a revolution in 1968-69 similar to events in May 1968 France, this is a fact yet ruling class hides it. The failure was a lack of revolutionary leadership, in France the Stalinist Communists betrayed it when the people could've taken power, and in Pakistan there was a lack of revolutionary leadership (lesson of Bhutto is you cannot bring socialism through reform but only through revolution). India last year had 24 hour general strike of over 100 million people, recently we had 48 hour general strike of over 100 million, largest general strike in history which made me proud to be an Indian. We've seen recent stirrings in Bangladesh. Revolution is coming, around the world, and the prospects for it are better than ever...in the subcontinent itself, an event in one country will have waves across the whole region. Only through revolution, through fulfilling the original tasks of the real revolutionary martyrs such as Bhagat Singh can the subcontinent transform society to pave the way towards realizing its destiny and ending barbarity.

We see Greece being in a pre-revolutionary situation and hence being the vanguard of the revolution in Europe. We see in Venezuela that now after Chavez's death the only way the gains can be defended is by completing the revolution, which will have waves in the region. As Charles Darwin said, it is not the strongest or smartest that survive but rather those most adaptable to change. Conditions are changing, and we must adapt to those changing conditions...the conditions for revolution are becoming ever more ripe and we live in a historical era where the next decade will see great events. The working class is stronger today than it was in the past. Internationalism is stronger today than it was in the past in this globalized and integrated world. Wake up, friend, wake up.

andyx1205 wrote:

natselrox wrote:At the age of fifteen, who doesn't?

Funny coming from an Indian, that is, one of the most barbaric countries on the face of this Earth. If the advanced western countries cannot solve their problems under capitalism, then the developing countries definitely cannot. For her to arrive at such a conclusion at such a young age is something to admire. At least reply with a rational comment instead of using that old "age" bullshit. Then again, I left this forum for a reason, it's a supposedly "rational" forum yet it's hard to come across rationality anymore here.

check my edited post

andy, I too will never give an Indian the benefit of the doubt, coming as they do from one of the most barbaric countries on the face of the earth.

Your thoughtful and true words have inspired me to take a second look at the words of this socialist prophetess who has been shot in the head. Wisdom pours from her like the blood from her wound, like the blood of our comrades. As the bloodwisdom pours from her, blood shall surely pour from our enemies.

blood!

Blood!

BLOOOOOODDDDDD!!!!!

What is the main point here? That during that whole media news storm over this girl they didn't mention that she was shot because she went to get education at a socialist leaning school?

Ihavenofingerprints wrote:What is the main point here? That during that whole media news storm over this girl they didn't mention that she was shot because she went to get education at a socialist leaning school?

The media was trying to exploit the story for political reasons, creating sympathy for imperialist policies. The Taliban are bad! Hence fighting the Taliban is good! But this is simplistic since our war on terrorism, our war in Afghanistan...our war against these "fundamentalists" is not based on moral reasons but imperial, politically motivated reasons. Her story fits a narrative in which the bad guys are further vilified.

Girls like her are killed every day yet receive little media coverage, she received a lot. It was a good story fitting a political narrative. The thing is, she would've opposed using her story to fit such a political narrative since she stands for Socialism, that is, the overthrow of Capitalism, the overthrow of the very system that this media protects, the very system on behalf of whom this media presents a narrative.

In context of Pakistan, we Marxists condemn both the fundamentalists AND the Pakistani army that is fighting the war against these fundamentalists, both commit crimes. Yet, using her story would fit the political narrative of fighting the fundamentalists without condemning the Pakistani army.

andyx1205 wrote:

Ihavenofingerprints wrote:What is the main point here? That during that whole media news storm over this girl they didn't mention that she was shot because she went to get education at a socialist leaning school?

The media was trying to exploit the story for political reasons, creating sympathy for imperialist policies.

Her shooting certainly created sympathy in me for the plight of brutally repressed women in regressive societies.

Now I know better. I have shed my imperial swine pigskin.

andyx1205 wrote:
Of course not! It would not fit the capitalist and imperialist narrative of fighting the Taliban for political purposes while allowing barbarity to continue in Pakistan. Only through the revolutionary overthrow of capitalism and the socialist transformation of society can we end barbarity, only through socialism can women actually be freed. Only through socialism can everyone have access to education, health-care, and the necessities of life. Only through the forceful overthrow of the capitalist system which has since long lost its objectively productive purpose can we bring about a civilized world. Unlike the Young Hegelians that Marx challenged during his time, similar to the petty-bourgeois "New Atheists" and liberals today that believe the problem in this particular event is religion, we Marxists understand that religious illusions arise out of material conditions. Fix the material conditions, and the illusions of religion over time will no longer be necessary. For the unity of the working class across national, ethnic, and religious lines, in opposition to the oppressive bourgeoisie!

Down with Capitalism! Onwards with the Socialist Revolution!

Have you heard of Dave Spart?

andyx1205 wrote:

Ihavenofingerprints wrote:What is the main point here? That during that whole media news storm over this girl they didn't mention that she was shot because she went to get education at a socialist leaning school?

The media was trying to exploit the story for political reasons, creating sympathy for imperialist policies. Girls like her are killed every day yet receive little media coverage, she received a lot. It was a good story fitting a political narrative. The thing is, she would've opposed using her story to fit such a political narrative since she stands for Socialism, that is, the overthrow of Capitalism, the overthrow of the very system that this media protects, the very system on behalf of whom this media presents a narrative.

So you're not trying to exploit the story for political reasons? What the hell are you on about? Why should she be your rallying point because she got shot? What about the other girls like her who are killed every day, why don't you use them as rallying points? Not nearly as convenient as the one that comes packaged with a nice little narrative that you can use for your own means, right?

Matt8819 wrote:

andyx1205 wrote:

Ihavenofingerprints wrote:What is the main point here? That during that whole media news storm over this girl they didn't mention that she was shot because she went to get education at a socialist leaning school?

The media was trying to exploit the story for political reasons, creating sympathy for imperialist policies. Girls like her are killed every day yet receive little media coverage, she received a lot. It was a good story fitting a political narrative. The thing is, she would've opposed using her story to fit such a political narrative since she stands for Socialism, that is, the overthrow of Capitalism, the overthrow of the very system that this media protects, the very system on behalf of whom this media presents a narrative.

So you're not trying to exploit the story for political reasons? What the hell are you on about? Why should she be your rallying point because she got shot? What about the other girls like her who are killed every day, why don't you use them as rallying points? Not nearly as convenient as the one that comes packaged with a nice little narrative that you can use for your own means, right?

YOU'RE GOING ON THE LIST, MATT

EDIT: Sorry, I'm a little impassioned today.

Your understanding of socialism isn't sufficiently rigorous, Matt.

Loren Michael wrote:

andyx1205 wrote:

Ihavenofingerprints wrote:What is the main point here? That during that whole media news storm over this girl they didn't mention that she was shot because she went to get education at a socialist leaning school?

The media was trying to exploit the story for political reasons, creating sympathy for imperialist policies.

Her shooting certainly created sympathy in me for the plight of brutally repressed women in regressive societies.

Now I know better. I have shed my imperial swine pigskin.

Sympathy for "brutally repressed women in regressive societies" does not necessarily mean you support a political program that would end the "brutal repression" of women in "regressive" societies. A Pakistani can watch the news story of Malala and then support the Pakistani army. An American can watch the news story and then support drone strikes against those "fundamentalists" that are killing girls in Pakistan. Simply having sympathy does not mean you are progressive. This is the general ideology of liberals, they think they are progressive but in reality are supporting the same barbaric system and policies. Like I said before, to be a Conservative one must be ignorant but to be a Liberal one must be deluded.

Hitchens support for the war in Afghanistan and war in Iraq was also based on "sympathy for repressed women" in backwards Muslim countries.

Matt8819 wrote:

andyx1205 wrote:

Ihavenofingerprints wrote:What is the main point here? That during that whole media news storm over this girl they didn't mention that she was shot because she went to get education at a socialist leaning school?

The media was trying to exploit the story for political reasons, creating sympathy for imperialist policies. Girls like her are killed every day yet receive little media coverage, she received a lot. It was a good story fitting a political narrative. The thing is, she would've opposed using her story to fit such a political narrative since she stands for Socialism, that is, the overthrow of Capitalism, the overthrow of the very system that this media protects, the very system on behalf of whom this media presents a narrative.

So you're not trying to exploit the story for political reasons? What the hell are you on about? Why should she be your rallying point because she got shot? What about the other girls like her who are killed every day, why don't you use them as rallying points? Not nearly as convenient as the one that comes packaged with a nice little narrative that you can use for your own means, right?

How am I trying to exploit the story for political reasons? I'm simply quoting Malala's own words which show the shaping of her political views, that is, views opposed by most of those who would have sympathy for her but would support policies that work against her. Similar to an Afghan woman that does not need you to use the brutality of the Taliban to support the war in Afghanistan in order to save her. The only solution to end of barbarity against women in Afghanistan will be through a socialist revolution and though it happened in a twisted form in 1978 Afghan Saur Revolution (btw thanks for supporting the counter-revolution dear West) it enacted many progressive measures including equality for women.

The old white man's burden, civilizing mission, still exists today in a different form, same old imperialism.

I support mass refugee status of people living in troubled areas like Afghanistan and Pakistan, irrespective of skills, only mindful of security risks. People should be free to escape to areas rich in opportunity from areas of oppression, death, insanity, etc.

Loren Michael wrote:I support mass refugee status of people living in troubled areas like Afghanistan and Pakistan, irrespective of skills, only mindful of security risks. People should be free to escape to areas rich in opportunity from areas of oppression, death, insanity, etc.

Keep dreaming dear liberal idealist, get back to me when you have some real solutions. Fellow comrades are working in difficult conditions every day in Pakistan in the fight against the barbaric system of capitalism that creates all this brutality, fighting to build an organization prepared for when a revolution erupts, which did erupt in 1968-69 similar to May 1968 in France but lacked revolutionary leadership at that time. For us to have built a large Marxist organization in such a backwards country is phenomenal, and we have many courageous women in our ranks as well. One of them is Malala's close friend who was in the bus when Malala got shot in the head.

Areas rich in opportunity? Last time I checked, the advanced western countries are seeing these "rich opportunities" decreases ever since the recent economic crisis! Wake the fuck up, the only solution is socialism, the socialist transformation of society. Yet, this can only happen by uniting the working class across national ethnic and religious divide, and it is precisely the role of revolutionary Marxists to fulfill this task.

You liberals want to change the world but are unwilling to fight for that change. You want to change the world but are unwilling to sacrifice for it.

wb andyx1205

andyx1205 wrote:You liberals want to change the world but are unwilling to fight for that change. You want to change the world but are unwilling to sacrifice for it.

Trying to improve the world in ways that require as little fighting and killing as possible sounds pretty good to me. Trying to improve the world in ways that don't require me to martyr myself also sounds oddly appealing.

Where do I sign up to become a liberal?

tuco wrote:wb andyx1205

Thank you brother.

andyx1205 wrote:

Loren Michael wrote:I support mass refugee status of people living in troubled areas like Afghanistan and Pakistan, irrespective of skills, only mindful of security risks. People should be free to escape to areas rich in opportunity from areas of oppression, death, insanity, etc.

Keep dreaming dear liberal idealist, get back to me when you have some real solutions. Fellow comrades are working in difficult conditions every day in Pakistan in the fight against the barbaric system of capitalism that creates all this brutality, fighting to build an organization prepared for when a revolution erupts

That's sure to be productive, comrade!

Essentially every study on migration ever has shown dramatic improvements in living conditions for people when they're allowed to escape to capitalist hellholes. Surely the econo-tricksters are pulling the wool over our collective(ist) eyes. Chain the people to the land they're born in, that's where socialist liberation will come from. From blood, and soil! That's where True Socialist Freedom is!