magikrooster wrote:

Acetone wrote:

Funnily enough, if everyone blamed USA for this and the same amount of evidence was available to implicate Russian separatists would rooster 180 his opinion just to be against the masses? That's how I think some conspiracy theorists operate, honest. What's it called? Contrarian?

But who are the masses? If you mean the people in this discussion forum then I'd say they are not anywhere near a reflection of what the masses of the world think.

What we have is the USA and Kiev saying one thing, and refusing to release any evidence (except in Kiev's case they release amateurish fake evidence for the most part)
Then we have Russia, saying another thing and releasing satellite images etc to back up their case.

Clearly this makes them look more credible.

Varangian wrote:Also, taking Russian, separatist and conspiracy theorist claims at face value, while questioning just about everything else.

Acetone wrote:I still want a source for that interview...

I find it a bit disappointing that the only thing you can continuously harp on is that what is released thus far is 'unverifiable' or doctored etc etc., even after I point it out... Have you nothing better?

MEMORANDUM FOR: The President

FROM: Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS)

SUBJECT: Intelligence on Shoot-Down of Malaysian Plane

Executive Summary

U.S.–Russian intensions are building in a precarious way over Ukraine, and we are far from certain that your advisers fully appreciate the danger of escalation. The New York Times and other media outlets are treating sensitive issues in dispute as flat-fact, taking their cue from U.S. government sources.

Twelve days after the shoot-down of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17, your administration still has issued no coordinated intelligence assessment summarizing what evidence exists to determine who was responsible – much less to convincingly support repeated claims that the plane was downed by a Russian-supplied missile in the hands of Ukrainian separatists.
Your administration has not provided any satellite imagery showing that the separatists had such weaponry, and there are several other “dogs that have not barked.” Washington’s credibility, and your own, will continue to erode, should you be unwilling – or unable – to present more tangible evidence behind administration claims. In what follows, we put this in the perspective of former intelligence professionals with a cumulative total of 260 years in various parts of U.S. intelligence:

We, the undersigned former intelligence officers want to share with you our concern about the evidence adduced so far to blame Russia for the July 17 downing of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17. We are retired from government service and none of us is on the payroll of CNN, Fox News, or any other outlet. We intend this memorandum to provide a fresh, different perspective.

As veteran intelligence analysts accustomed to waiting, except in emergency circumstances, for conclusive information before rushing to judgment, we believe that the charges against Russia should be rooted in solid, far more convincing evidence. And that goes in spades with respect to inflammatory incidents like the shoot-down of an airliner. We are also troubled by the amateurish manner in which fuzzy and flimsy evidence has been served up – some of it via “social media.”

Scot Dutchy wrote:In other words pure propaganda.

magikrooster wrote:

Acetone wrote:I still want a source for that interview...

More rubbish that is not a source for the interview translation posted.

Loren Michael wrote:Like, even absent evidence, the most likely scenario is that the Russians gave serious hardware to some relatively untrained randoms who started indiscriminately shooting down airplanes over a series of days until they managed to hit an airliner.

magikrooster wrote:So what evidence is there the separatists did it.
1. A fake youtube video put out by Ukranian intel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbyZYgSXdyw
2. A fake confession from Alexander Khodakovskiy
3. Photos of the wrong BUK.
4. Some photos and videos that possibly show a BUK in separatist held territory though whether it was before the split we dont know.

Anything else to add?

magikrooster wrote:

Loren Michael wrote:Like, even absent evidence, the most likely scenario is that the Russians gave serious hardware to some relatively untrained randoms who started indiscriminately shooting down airplanes over a series of days until they managed to hit an airliner.

The Americans have pretty much said that did not happen They said they have no evidence of Russian involvement.
They have also said they know where the rocket was fired from. Though they are refusing to say.

Varangian wrote:Yes.

5. Magikrooster trusts no government - except the Russian government when it is on collision course with USA and EU.

Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS)