laklak wrote:Jesus christ MR. For one thing, neocons don't control the government. You've got the tail wagging the dog here. Second, we're drawing down military forces and the Russians are pumping billions into theirs. They've got 750,000 active and 2,5 million reserves. We've got 1.4 million active but only 850,000 reserve. Ours are spread out all over the world, theirs are concentrated within a couple of days of the Ukraine. They have 15,500 operational tanks, 27,000 AFVs, 6000 self propelled guns and 5000 field artillery pieces. We've got 8500 tanks, 26,000 AFVs, 2000 SPGs and 1800 field artillery. They've got 3800 mobile missile launchers and we've got 1300. Are you starting to see a pattern here? We've got the air power and navy, but they're spread all over the globe and their SAMs are a major deterrent to air ops and particularly to close air support. We are seriously outgunned and out-manned in any land war in the Ukraine. Your contention that the U.S. is trying to start a shooting war with Russia is absolutely absurd. You need to stop reading conspiracy sites.

Obviously you are just toeing the party line of the Jewish NWO and gay Illuminati!

quisquose wrote:

CdesignProponentsist wrote:

quisquose wrote:Why are we still thinking of holding the next World Cup in Russia?

If it were not four years away, it would be a great opportunity to have mass boycotts from concerned nations. But since it is so far away it should be revoked.

I'm guessing Putin's ego and chest were pumped up significantly by the award of the World Cup in 2018.

I reckon that his posturing politics would take a threat of sanctions from FIFA more seriously than a threat of sanctions from the rest of the world.

It would be useful for FIFA to announce that it is too risky to have the World Cup in a nation involved in a war with its neighbour, and give Russia an ultimatum that if fighting has not stopped within a year then the World Cup will have to be moved. That would be enough to give Putin erectile dysfunction imho.

So my MP Nick Clegg has said that he thinks it would be a good idea to take the World Cup off Russia as it would be a "symbolic sanction". "If there's one thing that Vladimir Putin cares about, as far as I can see, it's his sense of status," he said.

He's right to a point, but calling it a "symbolic sanction" gives FIFA a get out by claiming that boycotts don't work, and some nonsense about FIFA being a force for good, which is what they have said.

It shouldn't be a political argument about sanctions or boycotts, it sould be a security argument about holding an event which attracts thousands of people in a country involved in fighting. We should be leaning on FIFA because of the risk of holding the tournament there.

laklak wrote: Your contention that the U.S. is trying to start a shooting war with Russia is absolutely absurd. You need to stop reading conspiracy sites.

What i said was that is how "punch ups" (which was your term) start.
Do you really think all wars are planned? I don't.
But again, since you somehow didn't understand what i wrote.
The US by continuing to pursue it policy of "no rivals", may bring on a war with Russia. Let's face it America is not nor has it ever been a great one at sitting down and negotiating.
There are indication that the neocons (who are an important force) believe that now they posses a strategic advantage over Russia but that if they leave it too long that advantage will lessen. All this is not a good recipe

the US and Russia going to war is really stupid for both sides.

I notice that magikrooster avoids commenting our debunking of the dodgy claims he found on conspiracy theorist websites...

Imagination Theory wrote:the US and Russia going to war is really stupid for both sides.

It's stupid for everyone considering how many nuclear weapons they have.
Putin does not want war, as it is of no help to him. He wants to rebuild Russia which means selling gas to Europe.

mrjonno wrote:Let's face it Russia is going to end up joining the EU whether that happens in 5 or 30 years its pretty inevitable . Alone Russia is basically insignificant on the world stage (just like the UK). Putin knows this unfortunately the Russian people are a bit ignorant on this fact

Try telling Europe, who needs their gas, that Russia is insignificant. Economically Europe is in a busload of trouble trying desperately to stop it's banks from failing. Just look at the extraordinary lengths they have gone to to hold it together.

Having oil/gas alone does not make you important, it can't keep your economy/infrastructure intact or feed your country on its own. Countries are going out of their way not to rely on Russia (or the Middle East) for anything

China which has little energy resources of its own its far more important

mrjonno wrote:Having oil/gas alone does not make you important, it can't keep your economy/infrastructure intact or feed your country on its own. Countries are going out of their way not to rely on Russia (or the Middle East) for anything

That is not true. Europe recently announced more faux sanctions, but were very quick to make everyone understand that it does not apply to energy deals with Russia. It's truly pathetic

mrjonno wrote:Having oil/gas alone does not make you important, it can't keep your economy/infrastructure intact or feed your country on its own. Countries are going out of their way not to rely on Russia (or the Middle East) for anything

China which has little energy resources of its own its far more important

Also the reason for the big rush for renewables in Europe.

Varangian wrote:

Besides, the full name of the link you provided says "malaysian-airlines-mh17-another-false-flag-operation-by-the-us-nato-israel-war-cabal", which I would sort under loony-left conspiracy thinking. That you find such sites credible and that you swallow their "facts" says a lot about your (critical) thinking skills.

Well as we know that false flag attacks do happen.......yes..we know as a matter of history that false flag attacks happen in real life, right here on planet earth.
So, one question we could ask is....Since we know they do happen, is this one.

It's probably the most obvious false flag in modern times.

magikrooster wrote:

Varangian wrote:

Besides, the full name of the link you provided says "malaysian-airlines-mh17-another-false-flag-operation-by-the-us-nato-israel-war-cabal", which I would sort under loony-left conspiracy thinking. That you find such sites credible and that you swallow their "facts" says a lot about your (critical) thinking skills.

Well as we know that false flag attacks do happen.......yes..we know as a matter of history that false flag attacks happen in real life, right here on planet earth.
So, one question we could ask is....Since we know they do happen, is this one.

It's probably the most obvious false flag in modern times.

Subscribe to your dimwitted conspiracy theories all you want, you only make yourself look the greater fool. So you have no comment on my post here? Where I show your loony-left conspiracy site to peddle tendentious interpretations of facts in order to push a false flag theory?

magikrooster wrote:

Varangian wrote:

Besides, the full name of the link you provided says "malaysian-airlines-mh17-another-false-flag-operation-by-the-us-nato-israel-war-cabal", which I would sort under loony-left conspiracy thinking. That you find such sites credible and that you swallow their "facts" says a lot about your (critical) thinking skills.

Well as we know that false flag attacks do happen.......yes..we know as a matter of history that false flag attacks happen in real life, right here on planet earth.
So, one question we could ask is....Since we know they do happen, is this one.

It's probably the most obvious false flag in modern times.

The only way to deal with Russia isnt war but its to have NATO/EU tanks on every single border. Russia needs to know its influence ends at its own border

Varangian wrote:

magikrooster wrote:

Varangian wrote:

Besides, the full name of the link you provided says "malaysian-airlines-mh17-another-false-flag-operation-by-the-us-nato-israel-war-cabal", which I would sort under loony-left conspiracy thinking. That you find such sites credible and that you swallow their "facts" says a lot about your (critical) thinking skills.

Well as we know that false flag attacks do happen.......yes..we know as a matter of history that false flag attacks happen in real life, right here on planet earth.
So, one question we could ask is....Since we know they do happen, is this one.

It's probably the most obvious false flag in modern times.

Subscribe to your dimwitted conspiracy theories all you want, you only make yourself look the greater fool. So you have no comment on my post here? Where I show your loony-left conspiracy site to peddle tendentious interpretations of facts in order to push a false flag theory?

Here is the point I made,

A Malaysian Airlines spokesman has already confirmed that, for some unknown reason, Kiev-based Ukrainian Air Traffic Control (ATC) ordered MH17 off of its original flight path along the international air route, known as L980.

In case you haven't realised, the Ukrainian authorities are covering something up.....they refuse to explain what happened. They are hiding something. They also confiscated the conversations between the plane and air traffic control.

I'll say it again. Here we have the most obvious false flag in modern times, but for some reason you keep defending the criminals. Why?

Here we have the Ukrainian authorities, with BUK missile launchers active and ready to, whose planes accompanied the flight way off course, who now refuse to give any information at all, about why the plane had to deviate so far off course.

There is nothing too difficult about this. Stop being distracted and see what is right in front of your eyes.

mrjonno wrote:

magikrooster wrote:

Varangian wrote:

Besides, the full name of the link you provided says "malaysian-airlines-mh17-another-false-flag-operation-by-the-us-nato-israel-war-cabal", which I would sort under loony-left conspiracy thinking. That you find such sites credible and that you swallow their "facts" says a lot about your (critical) thinking skills.

Well as we know that false flag attacks do happen.......yes..we know as a matter of history that false flag attacks happen in real life, right here on planet earth.
So, one question we could ask is....Since we know they do happen, is this one.

It's probably the most obvious false flag in modern times.

The only way to deal with Russia isnt war but its to have NATO/EU tanks on every single border. Russia needs to know its influence ends at its own border

Now you are getting the idea. You are a genuine neoconservative.
But let me ask you a question . Does this only apply to Russia...or should everyone's influence end at it's own border?

mrjonno wrote:Having oil/gas alone does not make you important, it can't keep your economy/infrastructure intact or feed your country on its own. Countries are going out of their way not to rely on Russia (or the Middle East) for anything

I wish it were that simple. Russia is one of our biggest trading partners: we export fruit & vegetables, pharmaceuticals, chemicals and machines, and we import oil, diamonds and steal. We're talking about billions here. Any sanctions would hurt us as much as it would hurt them, if not more.

Somehow it is bad manners to ask questions of Ukraine..despite the facts that.
1.They had BUKS's ready to go in the general area.
2. They had fighter jets or a jet accompanying the plane.
3.They lied about point 2.
4.They refuse to release any information about the conversation between the plane and air traffic control which would obviously tell us why the plane went off course. I fact Ukraine intelligence confiscated this evidence.

But of course it's bad manners to even ask them to explain.

magikrooster wrote:Somehow it is bad manners to ask questions of Ukraine..despite the facts that.
1.They had BUKS's ready to go in the general area.
2. They had fighter jets or a jet accompanying the plane.
3.They lied about point 2.
4.They refuse to release any information about the conversation between the plane and air traffic control which would obviously tell us why the plane went off course. I fact Ukraine intelligence confiscated this evidence.

But of course it's bad manners to even ask them to explain.

What a fucking load of crap. It really is.

magikrooster wrote:Here is the point I made,

A Malaysian Airlines spokesman has already confirmed that, for some unknown reason, Kiev-based Ukrainian Air Traffic Control (ATC) ordered MH17 off of its original flight path along the international air route, known as L980.

According to some sources, there were thunderstorms brewing over south Ukraine.

magikrooster wrote:In case you haven't realised, the Ukrainian authorities are covering something up.....they refuse to explain what happened. They are hiding something. They also confiscated the conversations between the plane and air traffic control.

If they had confiscated anything, don't you think the Dutch and the Malaysians would raise a stink over it?

magikrooster wrote:I'll say it again. Here we have the most obvious false flag in modern times, but for some reason you keep defending the criminals. Why?

I thought 9/11 was the biggest false flag in modern times, but it is hard to keep up on the flavour-of-the-month conspiracy theory on the lunatic fringe. Why do you keep shifting the blame from Putin and the separatists? Are you in Kremlin's pocket? Are you one of those Russian net-trolls, posting rebuttals to just about anything that doesn't suit your Russian masters? (See how easy it is to pin accusations on others, you who think I have an interest in "defending the criminals"?)

magikrooster wrote:Here we have the Ukrainian authorities, with BUK missile launchers active and ready to, whose planes accompanied the flight way off course, who now refuse to give any information at all, about why the plane had to deviate so far off course.

Provide evidence that Ukrainian SA-11s were ready to fire. Positions, please. Provide evidence for Ukrainian military planes accompanying MH17. Type(s), please (even if planes would be redundant, as you imply that the Ukrainians would use a SAm anyway - don't you hear how stupid you sound?). Provide sources (non-loony sites) that the Ukrainian authorities are obstructing the investigation, please.

magikrooster wrote:There is nothing too difficult about this. Stop being distracted and see what is right in front of your eyes.

Edit: You seem to operate on the principle "question everything" - except the motives of the people telling you to question everything... Trust nobody, except those telling you to trust nobody...

Now you are getting the idea. You are a genuine neoconservative.
But let me ask you a question . Does this only apply to Russia...or should everyone's influence end at it's own border?

If elected governments want to allow outside influences (or in the case of Ukraine want to join the EU) then that's fine by me

I lose interest in what Russia wants the day they started persecuting gay people,