Actually quite a lot of benefit fraud is shown in the BBC media shows about it, I've sometimes watched them, and the criminal who has multiple benefit accounts with dozens of fake passports. Or a family, where one stays to do the claiming for the others who return to live in the cheaper to live homeland. It is certainly an organised criminal set up.

It was usually men who were in these TV shows but if they are moving to benefit fraud using the burka as a tool to evade capture, which is logical to the criminal mind, then I guess the government has every right to crush fraud any way they like. Civil rights don’t exist when governments are combating organised crime. It even stops being a religious issue, its a crime prevention one trumping everything.

If an American actually met someone in a burqa (which I suspect is somewhat rare in Texas) they wouldn't have a debate about the rights and wrong of it instead they would simply shoot them as a terrorist (if they wear a burqa they could be hiding the fact they are black which is even worse)

mrjonno wrote:If an American actually met someone in a burqa (which I suspect is somewhat rare in Texas) they wouldn't have a debate about the rights and wrong of it instead they would simply shoot them as a terrorist (if they wear a burqa they could be hiding the fact they are black which is even worse)

Yes, that's exactly what would happen.

Not if they shot first:

ED209 wrote:Not if they shot first:

That's exactly what will happen too. Ole' fashioned Texas shootout.

mrjonno wrote:If an American actually met someone in a burqa (which I suspect is somewhat rare in Texas) they wouldn't have a debate about the rights and wrong of it instead they would simply shoot them as a terrorist (if they wear a burqa they could be hiding the fact they are black which is even worse)

In Texas there are roughly 1,678 Muslims per 100,000 people. With a population of roughly 26.96 million people (a population exceeding the Netherlands) that would roughly mean 450,000~ people are Muslims.

Now the Netherlands probably have a greater percentage of Muslims than Texas, but do not make the idiotic generalization that a Muslim that is dressed in what is considered Islamic garb would be shot or even discriminated against as a terrorist.

Texas is a huge state land mass wise. The Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, and France can all fit nice and comfortably within the land mass of Texas. It has a diverse population of blacks, Hispanics, and whites and believe it or not is not one massive red state. Plenty of democrats and liberals reside in Texas.

So when you make statements like this joking or not, you not only show your Eurocentric blindness, but also your ignorance about America.

Yes there is discrimination against Islamic peoples in America (as there is discrimination against most non-hispanic whites), but no it is not up and shoot 'em discrimination.

I doubt many people in Texas will have seen a burqa , I also doubt many in rural England will have either. New York would be a very different matter.

Where I live Birmingham UK where its roughly 20-25% Muslim I see maybe 2-3 per day which isn't particularly common as most Muslims don't wear them. It's very ugly but if its on the street no really any of my business, public services and private business is a different matter

mrjonno wrote:I doubt many people in Texas will have seen a burqa , I also doubt many in rural England will have either. New York would be a very different matter.

Where I live Birmingham UK where its roughly 20-25% Muslim I see maybe 2-3 per day which isn't particularly common as most Muslims don't wear them. It's very ugly but if its on the street no really any of my business, public services and private business is a different matter

Of course since they haven't seen it before the first time they encounter it they'll shoot it.

mrjonno wrote:I doubt many people in Texas will have seen a burqa , I also doubt many in rural England will have either. New York would be a very different matter.

Dallas, Houston, San Antonio and Austin Texas are some of the largest Metropolitan areas in the country. Texas is not just a rural state.

Where I live Birmingham UK where its roughly 20-25% Muslim I see maybe 2-3 per day which isn't particularly common as most Muslims don't wear them. It's very ugly but if its on the street no really any of my business, public services and private business is a different matter

I am not from Texas, but here in Richmond, if I actually go into the city I will most likely see the hijab over the burqa, BUT I have seen the burqa often enough that it is not out of the ordinary. And that is in a city with significantly less people than the big cities of Texas.

Your generalizations fall flat.

Scot Dutchy wrote:This is where things went slightly OT when certain posters tried to make out how soft and fuzzy muslims are and wearing veils was the women's choice.

I don't know if anyone claimed that they were always soft and fuzzy or that it was always a woman's choice, however you can't make a blanket statement to the opposite either. Most likely it's somewhere in between.

mrjonno wrote:If an American actually met someone in a burqa (which I suspect is somewhat rare in Texas) they wouldn't have a debate about the rights and wrong of it instead they would simply shoot them as a terrorist (if they wear a burqa they could be hiding the fact they are black which is even worse)

Ratskep's Law: If a Ratskep discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later it will turn into an America bashing thread.

willhud9 wrote:In Texas there are roughly 1,678 Muslims per 100,000 people. With a population of roughly 26.96 million people (a population exceeding the Netherlands) that would roughly mean 450,000~ people are Muslims.

using Muslim-maths that would make them the fastest growing Texan population in the world

Did anyone raise the point where this might push these people further away from society. If a woman has to wear one going out, is she now forced to walk 5 miles because she can't take the bus anymore?

I'm dead against the ninja costume as it is obviously another sexist thing that only women have to wear. Actually, the garment is fucking evil. I'm willing to bet that there are some women forced to wear it and will now suffer because of it. They may not be allowed out the house at all, or like I said, forced to walk places - maybe they'll even have to spend more time with the shitty husbands?

Teague wrote:Did anyone raise the point where this might push these people further away from society.

That's exactly what supporters of the ban want. Their contempt for people who are different from them is glaring.

I feel uncomfortable walking down the street being peered at through a slit or an eye covering with holes when I can't see the rest of their face. I somehow cannot place them in a 'human interaction' context - however brief. I know I should, and I want to, but it is difficult without the rest of the face to interact with.

Strontium Dog wrote:

Teague wrote:Did anyone raise the point where this might push these people further away from society.

That's exactly what supporters of the ban want. Their contempt for people who are different from them is glaring.

I'm pretty tired of your shit. You don't know what the blue fuck all supporters of this ban want.

Contempt? Mine isn't for women who wear veils, I can assure you.

Teague wrote:Did anyone raise the point where this might push these people further away from society. If a woman has to wear one going out, is she now forced to walk 5 miles because she can't take the bus anymore?

I'm dead against the ninja costume as it is obviously another sexist thing that only women have to wear. Actually, the garment is fucking evil. I'm willing to bet that there are some women forced to wear it and will now suffer because of it. They may not be allowed out the house at all, or like I said, forced to walk places - maybe they'll even have to spend more time with the shitty husbands?

All she needs to do is report it. Imprisonment is illegal. Just chuck the male in jail for 40 years breaking rocks. Problem solved.

Darwinsbulldog wrote:All she needs to do is report it. Imprisonment is illegal. Just chuck the male in jail for 40 years breaking rocks. Problem solved.

Easier said than done. If he is the only 'bread-winner', then she and her children will have to be supported by the state. His imprisonment could make her (and her children) destitute.
She could therefore be 'punished' by the state for exercising her legal right not to wear a veil.

Alan B wrote:

Darwinsbulldog wrote:All she needs to do is report it. Imprisonment is illegal. Just chuck the male in jail for 40 years breaking rocks. Problem solved.

Easier said than done. If he is the only 'bread-winner', then she and her children will have to be supported by the state. His imprisonment could make her (and her children) destitute.
She could therefore be 'punished' by the state for exercising her legal right not to wear a veil.

How would this equate to "punishment"?

It's certainly an adverse consequence of an abusive person being imprisoned that their dependents will be deprived of any support they provided when free. This has long been recognised as one of the main reasons a woman - muslim or no - might not report IPV.

But it's not "punishment" unless one considers the poverty of all unemployed persons to be "punishment". It's an unfortunate situation that any responsible state will take steps to counter. Supporting the woman and her children to begin with, providing training, help finding a job, and so on. Nothing more or less than I would expect the state to do for anyone.

Alan B wrote:I feel uncomfortable walking down the street being peered at through a slit or an eye covering with holes when I can't see the rest of their face. I somehow cannot place them in a 'human interaction' context - however brief. I know I should, and I want to, but it is difficult without the rest of the face to interact with.

Well, it's nice that your realise that it's your problem to deal with.

Here's a thought though. What level of "human interaction" does passing a stranger in the street normally involve that a niqab or burkha would impede?

I've always operated under the assumption that women walking around wearing Islamic face coverings were probably uninterested in striking up a conversation with me. So far, I appear to have been right every time.