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Russian propaganda station shows people supporting Russian puppet

Next Fox News says Trump is bestest leader ever

Scot Dutchy wrote:

Arjan Dirkse wrote:Are the Netherlands democratic?

No? We have pure PR or did you not notice when we voted a few weeks ago. Every vote is equal in weight. Which system is more democratic? We dont have gerrymandering because we have no constituencies. You can vote anywhere you want to. Everyone who is a legal citizen gets the right to vote.

I am not against the US system of the electoral college. Basically it's the same as the "winner takes all" system in the UK. You could claim it is less of a "pure democracy" than PR but to claim it is not democratic at all is silly.

You could claim as with any democratic system that in the Netherlands democracy just gives the illusion of choice. The same clique stays in power with the same policies. I don't believe that but some people make the argument and it's probably impossible to disprove. You always complain about the US but the Netherlands is pretty much in agreement with US foreign policy most of the time. We were also in Iraq.

The Electoral College is no way democratic. Not in your wildest dreams. How is it democratic? Clinton won the popular vote by millions. Have you read about registering to vote in America? If not please do.
It is not illusion of choice and the fact that we have a myriad of parties proves how democratic it is. Because we always have a coalition government protects us from severe swings but it always represents the public better than any other system. Foreign policy cant be compared.

Scot Dutchy wrote:The Electoral College is no way democratic.

It's a form of democracy, even if it's imperfect, like all the others in different ways.

ronmcd wrote:

Scot Dutchy wrote:The Electoral College is no way democratic.

It's a form of democracy, even if it's imperfect, like all the others in different ways.

It's an improvement over murdering your opponents even if Trump thinks he could get away with it

ronmcd wrote:

Scot Dutchy wrote:The Electoral College is no way democratic.

It's a form of democracy, even if it's imperfect, like all the others in different ways.

It was invented by rich land owners to prevent the people taking over. It is so imperfect there is no other system like it.
Even registering to vote is a farce. If your a white middle-class you dont have many problems but anyone else depends on the whims of your state. No two states are the same. Then there is gerrymandering. No other country has perfected it to the level of some counties.

Scot Dutchy wrote:It is so imperfect there is no other system like it.

BBBBZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!

I'm sorry, that's the wrong answer. Thanks for playing, and goodnight! <applause>

Other countries with electoral college systems include Burundi, Estonia, Kazakhstan, Madagascar, Myanmar, Pakistan, Trinidad and Tobago and Vanuatu. Both the French Senate and the Seanad Éireann (Senate) in Ireland are chosen by electoral colleges.

Perhaps most disheartening is the choice with which the American people were presented: although, nominally, there were other contenders, it was essentially just between Trump and Clinton. Choose which cretin you want at the top.
When Russians are presented with a choice of Putin or Putin, they're scoring a quality President whatever the outcome.

ronmcd wrote:

Scot Dutchy wrote:It is so imperfect there is no other system like it.

BBBBZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!

I'm sorry, that's the wrong answer. Thanks for playing, and goodnight! <applause>

Other countries with electoral college systems include Burundi, Estonia, Kazakhstan, Madagascar, Myanmar, Pakistan, Trinidad and Tobago and Vanuatu. Both the French Senate and the Seanad Éireann (Senate) in Ireland are chosen by electoral colleges.

Trouble with reading Ron. Look at the countries and look at their systems. There is nothing like the American system. It still not democratic in any way.

Mike_L wrote:Perhaps most disheartening is the choice with which the American people were presented: although, nominally, there were other contenders, it was essentially just between Trump and Clinton. Choose which cretin you want at the top.
When Russians are presented with a choice of Putin or Putin, they're scoring a quality President whatever the outcome.

You can't be serious. Aren't you left wing? And you like a reactionary dick like Putin? A guy who sucks up to the church, criminalizes gays, and kills his opponents?

Putin is about as far right as you can get, there is no such thing as a left wing supporter of Putin

Watching degenerates like Pussy Riot / Voina cured me of my liberalism.

Mike_L wrote:Watching degenerates like Pussy Riot / Voina cured me of my liberalism.

I hope that's a joke.

felltoearth wrote:

Mike_L wrote:Watching degenerates like Pussy Riot / Voina cured me of my liberalism.

I hope that's a joke.

Well, yes and no. I may have moved from (the left) a little more to the centre, but I'm certainly not right wing. No Sean Hannity or Bill O'Reilly for me, thanks.
FWIW, I don't view Putin-controlled Russia as some kind of Heaven-On-Earth. My 'support' is for Putin's foreign policy, which is based on the multipolar world view...

Putin's 2015 UN speech on 'multipolar world' coming to fruition

By John Wight

When Vladimir Putin took the podium to address the delegates in attendance at the 70th UN General Assembly in New York on September 28, 2015 the sense that we were about to witness a seminal moment in history was inescapable.
And so it proved.

The speech the Russian leader proceeded to deliver to the delegates in attendance, along with an expectant world via the international media, was tantamount to announcing the birth of a multipolar world, one in which Washington would no longer enjoy the uncontested primacy and hegemony it had since the demise of the Soviet Union in 1991.

In a trenchant indictment, Putin reminded the delegates of the responsibility of Washington and its allies in destabilizing the Middle East since 9/11, and how their actions had unleashed chaos and crises to the point where it now threatened to reduce the entire region to a state of permanent anarchy. The most powerful moment in the speech came when he looked up from his notes and out to the assembled international delegates, whereupon, directly addressing the US government and political establishment, he said, “Do you now realize what you have done?”

It was a j’accuse delivered in the form of a simple question, penetrating the walls of propaganda that had been erected to conceal the truth of US exceptionalism. Russia was no longer a second tier power, Putin’s address confirmed, reduced to the role of bystander while Washington’s writ ran wherever it saw fit.
...

Full text at: https://www.rt.com/op-ed/367568-putins-un-speech-multipolar-world/


As for Pussy Riot... They're an offshoot of Voina, whose stunts are just vulgarity in the guise of political protest. No sympathy or respect for them.

Mike_L wrote:No Sean Hannity or Bill O'Reilly for me, thanks.

RT is much worse than those guys. It is pure propaganda.

What Pussy riot does takes more guts than I'll ever have. They're opponents of Putin's dictatorship and his sick embrace of what is by now a state church, and they are for gay rights and feminism. They're heroes in my book.

Arjan Dirkse wrote:

Mike_L wrote:No Sean Hannity or Bill O'Reilly for me, thanks.

RT is much worse than those guys. It is pure propaganda.

What Pussy riot does takes more guts than I'll ever have. They're opponents of Putin's dictatorship and his sick embrace of what is by now a state church, and they are for gay rights and feminism. They're heroes in my book.

Fox is not propaganda? Or Breitbart is not propaganda?

Scot Dutchy wrote:

Fox is not propaganda? Or Breitbart is not propaganda?

Fox and Breitbart may be crazy, but they're independent news outlets, they're not state run like RT is. RT is the result of a propaganda effort to improve the image of Russia abroad, and it has done so quite succesfully unfortunately. The Kremlin runs the media in Russia, there is no comparison to the situation in the US.

Hundreds of journalists have ended up dead in Russia.

Scot Dutchy wrote:



Fox is not propaganda? Or Breitbart is not propaganda?

Who said they weren't?

Sendraks wrote:

Scot Dutchy wrote:



Fox is not propaganda? Or Breitbart is not propaganda?

Who said they weren't?

That would be me, I said RT is pure propaganda (in contrast to with Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity who Mike mentioned.

I think I was wrong, Fox News may be propaganda in that they're not objective and they're agenda driven. But they're not state propaganda, which is an important difference I think. There is little media freedom in Russia and you won't find many independent voices contrasting the Putinists whereas in the US there is much more of a plurality of opinions in the media landscape.