Spearthrower wrote:

Longtime White House budget employee Mark Sandy was expected to appear in a closed hearing on Saturday before the House committees conducting the impeachment inquiry, making him the first official from the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) to testify in the inquiry.

Sandy's testimony could fill in gaps about the withholding of military aid to Ukraine for several months, a process in which the OMB played a critical role. Unlike several other OMB officials who have refused to appear before the committee, he was not appointed by President Trump.

One thing I am not clear about with respect to all the proceedings, when a summoned official refuses to appear before the House committee - what happens? Is there no recourse to a refusal of a subpoena? Are all these people racking up fines, or prison time?

Dem leadership have yet to use the power of inherent contempt.

From what I've gathered, they're 'taking note' of the refusal, and creating adverse inferences.

chango369 wrote:
Dem leadership have yet to use the power of inherent contempt.

From what I've gathered, they're 'taking note' of the refusal, and creating adverse inferences.

The problem with the latter is that it doesn't help convince someone who's not already convinced. It does look dodgy, but you can't build a case on the evidence that was withheld from you.

But the former seems like it hasn't been used in decades, so I imagine it will be up for spin if it's suddenly applied to dozens of people.

I see this bit, though:

Presidential pardons appear not to apply to a civil contempt procedure such as the above, since it is not an "offense against the United States" or against "the dignity of public authority."

That gives it some impact.

However, this all seems to fit with a Republican smokescreen bullshit spin. It almost feels as if the House committee is basically powerless with an administration that holds complete contempt for the rule of law.

I don't think the authors of the Constitution foresaw such endemic malicious treachery as we're seeing with the GOP and Trump admin.

chango369 wrote:I don't think the authors of the Constitution foresaw such endemic malicious treachery as we're seeing with the GOP and Trump admin.

I still think it's beyond belief, so I believe you're probably right.

Was there any consequences for those involved in the Repugnant's pizza party in the SCIF?

Alan C wrote:Was there any consequences for those involved in the Repugnant's pizza party in the SCIF?

I imagine they are intentionally avoiding going heavy handed with obstinate Republicans and uncooperative witnesses in order to maintain political standing with right leaning independents. If they are making good headway with the witnesses they already have and the process is still adequately maintained, not laying down the law for their tantrums looks better for Dems than it does for the republicans who look mostly clownish and dishonest.

Technically they could start arresting congressmen or white house staff that obstruct or refuse subpoenas but then the words "Liberal coup" would explode into the political lexicon and would be on every chyron on Fox News. I'm pretty confident it would stifle or reverse any political momentum for impeachment not to mention what it would do to democratic chances in 2020.

I agree with this strategy. Let them beclown themselves and let the facts keep destroying their backup arguments as they descend deeper into absurdity. Don't do anything to change the focus of this.

More on that.

https://www.npr.org/2019/11/15/78002999 ... J61KH66nKc

chango369 wrote:I don't think the authors of the Constitution foresaw such endemic malicious treachery as we're seeing with the GOP and Trump admin.

Yes they have been found to be short-sighted in the extreme. Turns out the United States Emperor President has powers the king they threw over could but dream of.

So he had a Saturday hospital trip?
I hope he stays well enough to be imprisoned, I wouldn't want him to take the easy way out by dying. I don't think he'd off himself but I often wonder about his combination of diet, little sleep and stress.

I don't know if we can afford to wait that long. I'm hoping for a massive coronary.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-50468025

After screwing his own country, he now screws the entire Middle-East. He sees big, you've got to give him that.

aban57 wrote:https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-50468025

After screwing his own country, he now screws the entire Middle-East. He sees big, you've got to give him that.

You have info?

Aban is commenting on the link he posted.

What are you talking about?

aban57 wrote:https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-50468025

After screwing his own country, he now screws the entire Middle-East. He sees big, you've got to give him that.

This is more than just Trump, although he is responsible for putting people in these positions; this is evangelical Christianity informing policy decision making. Trump doesn't care - come on, he doesn't have a fucking clue what he's doing on even much simpler facets of governance - everything done is sold to him on the basis of 'your base will love this' - it's all about ratings.

And trolling progressives.

Link
https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/11/18/politi ... cnn.com%2F

OlivierK wrote:And trolling progressives.

Motivating progressives.

This week is going to be fun.

Spearthrower wrote:

aban57 wrote:https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-50468025

After screwing his own country, he now screws the entire Middle-East. He sees big, you've got to give him that.

This is more than just Trump, although he is responsible for putting people in these positions; this is evangelical Christianity informing policy decision making. Trump doesn't care - come on, he doesn't have a fucking clue what he's doing on even much simpler facets of governance - everything done is sold to him on the basis of 'your base will love this' - it's all about ratings.

No of course, I didn't mean there was a thought process behind all that