Mike_L wrote:

zulumoose wrote:The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that if you taught a robot the conventions of cartoon caricature, without any racial or gender bias whatsoever, this cartoon would be a reasonable output. It does everything correctly.
I think the criticism of it is entirely due to societal oversensitivity.

...and the insatiable need for virtue signalling among the self-righteous SJWs.

Says the guy blowing white supremacist dog whistles.

Knight's cartoon bears no resemblance to crude "coon caricatures" (to use Seabass' term). It's actually a very good depiction of Williams.

You're either blind or full of shit. If you took just the head, you know, the main identifier of a person in caricatures, I guarantee you wouldn't be able to identify her. Even just her basic head shape is completely wrong. But there's no claim too ridiculous when it comes to you standing up for the poor, oppressed white people, right Mike? Blow those whistles!

willhud9 wrote:You’re wrong.

Matter of opinion, I guess.

Maybe actually listen to the women and people of color who are objecting to the cartoon instead of trying to mansplain and/or colorblind their objections away.

I get what they're saying. I don't agree with their interpretation of the cartoonist's intent.

Keep It Real wrote:The face of Williams in the cartoon does not emphasise any features of her face as a proper caricature artist might portray them - it only emphasises stereotyped blackness. It. Looks. Nothing. Like. Her.

Wholly disagree. It does look like her.

We often get on Mike_L but on this...you must be fucking blind.

SafeAsMilk wrote:

Knight's cartoon bears no resemblance to crude "coon caricatures" (to use Seabass' term). It's actually a very good depiction of Williams.

You're either blind or full of shit. If you took just the head, you know, the main identifier of a person in caricatures, I guarantee you wouldn't be able to identify her. Even just her basic head shape is completely wrong. But there's no claim too ridiculous when it comes to you standing up for the poor, oppressed white people, right Mike? Blow those whistles!

It's clearly a depiction of Williams, head shape and all.
It's people intent on finding non-existent racism who have to fixate on one feature (her mouth) as 'evidence' of the cartoonists "racist" intent. Ridiculous.

Says the guy blowing white supremacist dog whistles.

It's a bit much to call the man a white supremacist IMO

Mike_L wrote:
It's clearly a depiction of Williams, head shape and all.

Bollocks it is. The context of the tennis court and the identifiable outfit make it identifiable as her, shorn of that context, there's nothing in the image to identify her.

Meanwhile. 300,000 Ruskies and Red Chinese are playing army while we argue over Nike advertisements and a political cartoon. Fiddle away, Nero.

Mike_L wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:

Knight's cartoon bears no resemblance to crude "coon caricatures" (to use Seabass' term). It's actually a very good depiction of Williams.

You're either blind or full of shit. If you took just the head, you know, the main identifier of a person in caricatures, I guarantee you wouldn't be able to identify her. Even just her basic head shape is completely wrong. But there's no claim too ridiculous when it comes to you standing up for the poor, oppressed white people, right Mike? Blow those whistles!

It's clearly a depiction of Williams, head shape and all.

Doubling down on your bullshit claim doesn't make it any less obviously bullshit.

It's people intent on finding non-existent racism who have to fixate on one feature (her mouth) as 'evidence' of the cartoonists "racist" intent. Ridiculous.

They're right to fixate on that, since it doesn't look anything like her mouth at all, as neither do any of the other features. Looks an awful lot like an old caricature of black people, though. But hey, keep telling us the sky isn't blue and the grass isn't green Mike, I'm sure all those folks you're blowing whistles for are totally on your side.

Says the guy blowing white supremacist dog whistles.

Oooooh I see, you get to make wild-ass claims about the motivations of other people, but when someone makes a claim about yours, no matter how obvious it is, they're just being ridiculous. I know it's trendy for you guys to play the alt-right SJW that hates SJW's, but it's already a pretty tired game.

laklak wrote:Meanwhile. 300,000 Ruskies and Red Chinese are playing army while we argue over Nike advertisements and a political cartoon. Fiddle away, Nero.

At least Poland is getting ready for it.

laklak wrote:Meanwhile. 300,000 Ruskies and Red Chinese are playing army while we argue over Nike advertisements and a political cartoon. Fiddle away, Nero.

If it were a "Red Chinese" tennis star I doubt I'd be capable of saying "it looks nothing like her"...life is hard.

Anyway Lak, them Ruskies and Red Chinese and Cowboy Yanks and British Chippies have gotta play army or their domestic military industrial complex's/the economy would collapse (being a Yank, you should know this better than anybody really).

Mike_L wrote:

willhud9 wrote:You’re wrong.

Matter of opinion, I guess.

I tend to leave such things to those that actually have an informed one.

'Murika! FUK YEAH!



Anybody else think he looks like Dave Grohl?

I know pornography when I see it! The artist could be a racist. Or, maybe he isn't. I don't know, but I don't think one can determine either way based solely on one cartoon frame.

The image doesn't compare to the "tarbaby" cartoon character. Have we really forgotten what the Jim Crow cartoons were like? I can see the argument from both sides. I just can't see if falling clearly on one side or the other.

Bottom line, the cartoonist exaggerated her features, and her behavior. It's not a great likeness, but it isn't like he put a red and white polka dotted kerchief on her head... that would clearly be racist, imo. Google Serena caricature and you'll see plenty of other images with big bubble butts, big lips that extend beyond her face and overly masculinized characteristics. It was a timely cartoon making a statement about Serena's abysmal behavior, in the artist's opinion.

I wonder if his depiction of her outfit helps with the racist comments? Seriously. It's jet black except for one shoulder. When you go back and look at the old "Tar baby" cartoons, jet black complexions were a way to flatten and dehumanize the character. After looking at some of the old cartoons, that black ink jumped off the page at me. Could it be a dog-whistle? A nod to the old racist comics? Hell yeah! Was that the artist intent? :shrug: Maybe it was just the artist depicting the attire she wore that day.

Keep It Real wrote:It's a bit much to call the man a white supremacist IMO

Thanks, KIR. Even if we disagree on the cartoon, you are at least "keeping it (the discussion) real".

Sendraks wrote:

Mike_L wrote:
It's clearly a depiction of Williams, head shape and all.

Bollocks it is. The context of the tennis court and the identifiable outfit make it identifiable as her, shorn of that context, there's nothing in the image to identify her.

It's a caricature, not a portrait. It's also a cartoon conveying a statement about her behavior... so it needs the context, setting, outfit, etc. That said, the head shape and hair are enough (to me, at least) to make it immediately identifiable as her.

SafeAsMilk wrote:

Mike_L wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:

Knight's cartoon bears no resemblance to crude "coon caricatures" (to use Seabass' term). It's actually a very good depiction of Williams.

You're either blind or full of shit. If you took just the head, you know, the main identifier of a person in caricatures, I guarantee you wouldn't be able to identify her. Even just her basic head shape is completely wrong. But there's no claim too ridiculous when it comes to you standing up for the poor, oppressed white people, right Mike? Blow those whistles!

It's clearly a depiction of Williams, head shape and all.

Doubling down on your bullshit claim doesn't make it any less obviously bullshit.

It's people intent on finding non-existent racism who have to fixate on one feature (her mouth) as 'evidence' of the cartoonists "racist" intent. Ridiculous.

They're right to fixate on that, since it doesn't look anything like her mouth at all, as neither do any of the other features. Looks an awful lot like an old caricature of black people, though. But hey, keep telling us the sky isn't blue and the grass isn't green Mike, I'm sure all those folks you're blowing whistles for are totally on your side.

Says the guy blowing white supremacist dog whistles.

Oooooh I see, you get to make wild-ass claims about the motivations of other people, but when someone makes a claim about yours, no matter how obvious it is, they're just being ridiculous. I know it's trendy for you guys to play the alt-right SJW that hates SJW's, but it's already a pretty tired game.

They're right to fixate on that, since it doesn't look anything like her mouth at all, as neither do any of the other features. Looks an awful lot like an old caricature of black people, though. But hey, keep telling us the sky isn't blue and the grass isn't green Mike, I'm sure all those folks you're blowing whistles for are totally on your side.

You're blind, SaM, seeing only what you want to see.

laklak wrote:'Murika! FUK YEAH!

MurikanJesus.jpg

Anybody else think he looks like Dave Grohl?

What's that weird word for when people see pictures of JC on burnt toast and suchlike? Not that I'm comparing Williams to burnt toast of course...

felltoearth wrote:

Mike_L wrote:

willhud9 wrote:You’re wrong.

Matter of opinion, I guess.

I tend to leave such things to those that actually have an informed one.

Informed by whom?

PensivePenny wrote:I know pornography when I see it! The artist could be a racist. Or, maybe he isn't. I don't know, but I don't think one can determine either way based solely on one cartoon frame.

The image doesn't compare to the "tarbaby" cartoon character. Have we really forgotten what the Jim Crow cartoons were like? I can see the argument from both sides. I just can't see if falling clearly on one side or the other.

Bottom line, the cartoonist exaggerated her features, and her behavior. It's not a great likeness, but it isn't like he put a red and white polka dotted kerchief on her head... that would clearly be racist, imo. Google Serena caricature and you'll see plenty of other images with big bubble butts, big lips that extend beyond her face and overly masculinized characteristics. It was a timely cartoon making a statement about Serena's abysmal behavior, in the artist's opinion.
...

Yes, it's nothing like the Jim Crow cartoons.

I wonder if his depiction of her outfit helps with the racist comments? Seriously. It's jet black except for one shoulder. When you go back and look at the old "Tar baby" cartoons, jet black complexions were a way to flatten and dehumanize the character. After looking at some of the old cartoons, that black ink jumped off the page at me. Could it be a dog-whistle? A nod to the old racist comics? Hell yeah! Was that the artist intent? :shrug: Maybe it was just the artist depicting the attire she wore that day.

'Twas a black outfit she wore.

Mike_L wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:
They're right to fixate on that, since it doesn't look anything like her mouth at all, as neither do any of the other features. Looks an awful lot like an old caricature of black people, though. But hey, keep telling us the sky isn't blue and the grass isn't green Mike, I'm sure all those folks you're blowing whistles for are totally on your side.

You're blind, SaM, seeing only what you want to see.

"Fixating" on something is a kind of blindness to all else.

Have you ever noticed how distorted faces become when they're angry or, worse... crying? Serena is depicted as crying, throwing a temper tantrum. Is her mouth supposed to look like it does on the cover of Women's Tennis magazine?

PensivePenny wrote:

Mike_L wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:
They're right to fixate on that, since it doesn't look anything like her mouth at all, as neither do any of the other features. Looks an awful lot like an old caricature of black people, though. But hey, keep telling us the sky isn't blue and the grass isn't green Mike, I'm sure all those folks you're blowing whistles for are totally on your side.

You're blind, SaM, seeing only what you want to see.

"Fixating" on something is a kind of blindness to all else.

Have you ever noticed how distorted faces become when they're angry or, worse... crying? Serena is depicted as crying, throwing a temper tantrum. Is her mouth supposed to look like it does on the cover of Women's Tennis magazine?

Quite so.
As I see it, it's the mouth as a whole (not just the lips) that is exaggerated in order to convey anger and distress.

Mike, if it turns out you're a mother fucking white supremacist, I'll disavow everything you've ever said!