Forty Two wrote:

Spearthrower wrote:

Shrunk wrote:

Forty Two wrote:

http://instinctmagazine.com/post/swedis ... ghborhoods

So, sorry, where is the part where he writes that "the march be banned or prevented/stopped, and its organizers arrested"? All that article does is link to another post that says that "leftists" are doing this, which in support of that claim only links to another post that says "leftists" are doing this. So far, no link to any "leftists" actually doing this.

Ah I see you spotted this too. 42 does like these nebulous claims made by 'many' people, yet seem thin on the evidence aside from anecdotal assurances.

The articles I've posted quote people and name them.

Oh, so you've checked them out, have you?

Forty Two wrote:The people protesting the proposed march are Leftists.

Source?

Forty Two wrote:Those are the people that think it's hate speech. The articles I've linked provide the evidence. Nothing is nebulous here. You obviously didn't bother to read the articles. It's not MY claim.

It's not YOUR claim, but it is a claim you've bought into uncritically without even conducting a passing examination of the sources.

Forty Two wrote:That, of course, would be all the more reason to protest and march in that neighborhood. If there are people who would take violent action to stop a peaceful march, then those people need to be dealt with.

Getting rocks thrown at your head is a reason to go somewhere, rather than to avoid it?

Which would you consider the more reliable source as to why the Copenhagen Gay Pride Parade route no longer goes through Nørrebrogade.... the organizers of the Gay Pride event, or a Canadian blogger called Blazingcatfur?

Bloke down t' pub said it.... must be true!

Shrunk wrote:

Forty Two wrote:What about this bit? "Personally I think that deciding to put a Pride march through such an area is deeply misconceived, it’s entirely possible that it will end in violence which is—and always will be—a bad end to seek." Why in the world would it end in violence? Are Muslims prone to be violent in the face of gay pride parades?

I don't know. What does that have to do with this particular issue? The relevant question here is whether they are prone to be violent in the face of provocations from racist xenophobes.

Yes, that is the relevant question. To say that they are "prone to be violent" in that regard is rather, well, an interesting statement to make about a group of people. Muslims: prone to be violent when gay pride parades occur in "their" neighborhoods (which aren't "theirs" to begin with...by the way).

You recast the "relevant issue" as one of provocation. Gays marching down the street, kissing, carrying signs, holding hands -- that's not "provocation."

Further, even if they were marching down the street shouting "Allah is a pig eating pedophile and Piss be Upon Him!" - that's not a "provocation." That's something people in a free society have to put up with, just like a march involving people going down the street in, say Columbia South Carolina shouting "All you Confederate Flag supporters are racist pigs and scum!" is not a "provocation" in any way, even if the bulk of the population loves the Confederate Flag and are racist.

Jesus Christ, man, marches and protests that piss people off, outrage them or offend them are not "provocations" even if tehy blaspheme the most dearly held beliefs of significant groups of people. That's free speech, and fucking religious groups do not own the streets and public areas. They don't control what gets said and and expressed, and if they don't like, tough shit. And, if they act out violently, that's their crime and THEY are in the wrong.

Let's try this again. Maybe if I put multiple colours and extreme formatting it might permeate.


http://copenhagenpride.dk/en/content/ro ... -and-place

Pride Parade August 15th, 2015 13:00 / 1pm

True to tradition the Parade takes place on the last day of Pride Week and thus marks "the beginning of the end" prior to the show on the Copenhagen City Hall Square.
The parade route

The route from previous years is repeated once again this year: From Frederiksberg Town Hall via Vesterbrogade to Copenhagen City Hall Square. Departure from Frederiksberg at 13:00 / 1pm

....


The old, traditional route via Nørrebrogade and Dronnings Louises Bro has been out of the question for several years due to extensive road works and construction work relating to the new Metro extension. The permits necessary for that route are simply not given.

It is not Inconceivable that the Parade might return to Nørrebro, but if so it will only be when we can guarantee that route for years to come. We would rather not have confusion as to which route we pick from one year to the next.

Spearthrower wrote:Which would you consider the more reliable source as to why the Copenhagen Gay Pride Parade route no longer goes through Nørrebrogade.... the organizers of the Gay Pride event, or a Canadian blogger called Blazingcatfur?

Bloke down t' pub said it.... must be true!

The organizers, I would say. That doesn't mean that folks weren't outraged by the "pure racism" of a parade through a Muslim neighborhood, etc.

Forty Two wrote:

Spearthrower wrote:Which would you consider the more reliable source as to why the Copenhagen Gay Pride Parade route no longer goes through Nørrebrogade.... the organizers of the Gay Pride event, or a Canadian blogger called Blazingcatfur?

Bloke down t' pub said it.... must be true!

The organizers, I would say. That doesn't mean that folks weren't outraged by the "pure racism" of a parade through a Muslim neighborhood, etc.

It doesn't mean they were, either.

Forty Two wrote:

Shrunk wrote:

Forty Two wrote:What about this bit? "Personally I think that deciding to put a Pride march through such an area is deeply misconceived, it’s entirely possible that it will end in violence which is—and always will be—a bad end to seek." Why in the world would it end in violence? Are Muslims prone to be violent in the face of gay pride parades?

I don't know. What does that have to do with this particular issue? The relevant question here is whether they are prone to be violent in the face of provocations from racist xenophobes.

Yes, that is the relevant question. To say that they are "prone to be violent" in that regard is rather, well, an interesting statement to make about a group of people. Muslims: prone to be violent when gay pride parades occur in "their" neighborhoods (which aren't "theirs" to begin with...by the way).

You keep describing this as a "gay pride parade". That remains open to debate. If the KKK decided to dress up in blackface and march thru the streets, would they be justified in calling it a "black rights parade"?

Spearthrower wrote:

Forty Two wrote:

Spearthrower wrote:

Shrunk wrote:

So, sorry, where is the part where he writes that "the march be banned or prevented/stopped, and its organizers arrested"? All that article does is link to another post that says that "leftists" are doing this, which in support of that claim only links to another post that says "leftists" are doing this. So far, no link to any "leftists" actually doing this.

Ah I see you spotted this too. 42 does like these nebulous claims made by 'many' people, yet seem thin on the evidence aside from anecdotal assurances.

The articles I've posted quote people and name them.

Oh, so you've checked them out, have you?

I've seen the matter reported in multiple sources, yes. I can't go there and interview them, and neither can you. However, if you wish to impose this standard, then I'll be sure to hold you to it, too.

From here on out, news articles on a topic are not evidence, and whatever they say must be checked. Then whatever was checked to check the news source must be checked too.

Spearthrower wrote:[

Forty Two wrote:The people protesting the proposed march are Leftists.

Source?

Previously linked - and sourced. Who the fuck else would be concerned with this, anyway?

Spearthrower wrote:[

Forty Two wrote:Those are the people that think it's hate speech. The articles I've linked provide the evidence. Nothing is nebulous here. You obviously didn't bother to read the articles. It's not MY claim.

It's not YOUR claim, but it is a claim you've bought into uncritically without even conducting a passing examination of the sources.

I haven't been uncritical. I've read many articles on the subject. Further, posting a thread here is, in part, the process of being critical, because it allows all perspectives to share their evidence and information.

Shrunk wrote:

Forty Two wrote:

Shrunk wrote:

Forty Two wrote:What about this bit? "Personally I think that deciding to put a Pride march through such an area is deeply misconceived, it’s entirely possible that it will end in violence which is—and always will be—a bad end to seek." Why in the world would it end in violence? Are Muslims prone to be violent in the face of gay pride parades?

I don't know. What does that have to do with this particular issue? The relevant question here is whether they are prone to be violent in the face of provocations from racist xenophobes.

Yes, that is the relevant question. To say that they are "prone to be violent" in that regard is rather, well, an interesting statement to make about a group of people. Muslims: prone to be violent when gay pride parades occur in "their" neighborhoods (which aren't "theirs" to begin with...by the way).

You keep describing this as a "gay pride parade". That remains open to debate. If the KKK decided to dress up in blackface and march thru the streets, would they be justified in calling it a "black rights parade"?

They could call it whatever they wanted. The key point is that the outrage of the community does not trump their right to march down the street and spread their message.

Forty Two wrote:They could call it whatever they wanted. The key point is that the outrage of the community does not trump their right to march down the street and spread their message.

Who says it does? We're still waiting for you to demonstrate you're arguing against anyone who exists outside of your imagination.

What is a 'Leftist' with a capital 'L'? Is that different from a 'leftist'? More left perhaps, or 'officially' Left?

Forty Two wrote: I've seen the matter reported in multiple sources, yes. I can't go there and interview them, and neither can you. However, if you wish to impose this standard, then I'll be sure to hold you to it, too.

From here on out, news articles on a topic are not evidence, and whatever they say must be checked. Then whatever was checked to check the news source must be checked too.

Not quite. The standard would be that a news article cited in support of a claim should a) be a news article, and b) support the claim.

Odd that you would need this made explicit.

Forty Two wrote:

Spearthrower wrote:

Forty Two wrote:

Spearthrower wrote:


Ah I see you spotted this too. 42 does like these nebulous claims made by 'many' people, yet seem thin on the evidence aside from anecdotal assurances.

The articles I've posted quote people and name them.

Oh, so you've checked them out, have you?

I've seen the matter reported in multiple sources, yes.

Yes - they all repeat this one's claims nearly word for word.

Forty Two wrote:I can't go there and interview them, and neither can you.

No, but you can at least produce some elementary level skepticism before considering it fact.

Forty Two wrote: However, if you wish to impose this standard, then I'll be sure to hold you to it, too.

Please do - it's a very healthy way of sorting fact from fiction, and if you can point out for me where I've made such a mistake, I will thank you for showing me.

Forty Two wrote:From here on out, news articles on a topic are not evidence, and whatever they say must be checked. Then whatever was checked to check the news source must be checked too.

News articles??? You've cited a Youtube video, a magazine, and a blog entry.

The only news article which has been cited was by me, and it was from a 'Conservative' News outlet - something which surely suggests a political bias.

Forty Two wrote:

Spearthrower wrote:

Forty Two wrote:The people protesting the proposed march are Leftists.

Source?

Previously linked - and sourced. Who the fuck else would be concerned with this, anyway?

Not linked and not sourced. A blog isn't a credible source, 42 anymore than Bloke down t'pub is.

Does it matter if no one else is concerned with this? If you're not, it would explain why you've uncritically bought into it.

But note the name of this website: rational skepticism. I doubt I am the only person here who employs healthy skepticism towards claims that are full of misinformation.

Forty Two wrote:

Spearthrower wrote:

Forty Two wrote:Those are the people that think it's hate speech. The articles I've linked provide the evidence. Nothing is nebulous here. You obviously didn't bother to read the articles. It's not MY claim.

It's not YOUR claim, but it is a claim you've bought into uncritically without even conducting a passing examination of the sources.

I haven't been uncritical. I've read many articles on the subject.

There's that word 'many' again. You can read blog entries and opinion polls that agree with you all day, 42... but it still doesn't make anything they say true by default.

Forty Two wrote:Further, posting a thread here is, in part, the process of being critical, because it allows all perspectives to share their evidence and information.

Forty Two wrote:

Shrunk wrote:

Forty Two wrote:

Shrunk wrote:

I don't know. What does that have to do with this particular issue? The relevant question here is whether they are prone to be violent in the face of provocations from racist xenophobes.

Yes, that is the relevant question. To say that they are "prone to be violent" in that regard is rather, well, an interesting statement to make about a group of people. Muslims: prone to be violent when gay pride parades occur in "their" neighborhoods (which aren't "theirs" to begin with...by the way).

You keep describing this as a "gay pride parade". That remains open to debate. If the KKK decided to dress up in blackface and march thru the streets, would they be justified in calling it a "black rights parade"?

They could call it whatever they wanted. The key point is that the outrage of the community does not trump their right to march down the street and spread their message.

But the supposed outrage appears to be nothing more than the fiction of a blogger.

Ah, dammit. I've lost the plot.

So what is the real story?

Is there really going to be a gay pride march in a predominantly Muslim area in Sweden?

If so, is anyone objecting other than, presumably, the Muslims of that area?

NamelessFaceless wrote:Ah, dammit. I've lost the plot.

So what is the real story?

Is there really going to be a gay pride march in a predominantly Muslim area in Sweden?

If so, is anyone objecting other than, presumably, the Muslims of that area?

There's apparently going to be a 'gay pride parade' through a predominantly Muslim area, but it's being setup and hosted by a political party which has clearly stated that it opposes equality for gays, and whose primary party agenda seems to be curtailing immigration.

What 'many' Lefts (capital L) have said or done, and the confusion they are now in appears to be best left to our primary informant, blazingcatfur from Canada who writes a blog, dontcha know?

Pile on the JAQing and insinutation and you have a legitimate concern ready made, and good to trot out!

This thread reminds me of a shart.

Spearthrower wrote:

NamelessFaceless wrote:Ah, dammit. I've lost the plot.

So what is the real story?

Is there really going to be a gay pride march in a predominantly Muslim area in Sweden?

If so, is anyone objecting other than, presumably, the Muslims of that area?

There's apparently going to be a 'gay pride parade' through a predominantly Muslim area, but it's being setup and hosted by a political party which has clearly stated that it opposes equality for gays, and whose primary party agenda seems to be curtailing immigration.

What 'many' Lefts (capital L) have said or done, and the confusion they are now in appears to be best left to our primary informant, blazingcatfur from Canada who writes a blog, dontcha know?

Pile on the JAQing and insinutation and you have a legitimate concern ready made, and good to trot out!

Ok, thanks for the clarification.

I say just let the march proceed. We get publicity for the rights of gays and the right-wingers are the ones who'll be getting pelted by rocks for it.

Win-Win.

Rachel Bronwyn wrote:This thread reminds me of a shart.

I've noticed a posterior related theme to your postings as of late......