There is these days with rents so high plenty of illegal subletting. One family may be living in one room or the whole extended family living in one flat. A four bedroom flat is meant for large families. How much control was there and how were the residents registered?
One resident said more than 50% were muslim with plenty of refugees.

Scot Dutchy wrote:There is these days with rents so high plenty of illegal subletting. One family may be living in one room or the whole extended family living in one flat. A four bedroom flat is meant for large families. How much control was there and how were the residents registered?
One resident said more than 50% were muslim with plenty of refugees.

I don't doubt that there were plenty of refugees, as it's the responsibility of the local council to house them and even if it's not cheap it's still the cheapest option they've got short of bussing them off against their will to somewhere else in the country that has a housing surplus.

And yes, illegal subletting of council housing goes on. Still, how else are tenants supposed to pay for their bedroom tax these days?

I entirely agree. If you have four bedrooms you have to fill them.

The residents are/were a thorough mix of ethnic origins, from Syrian refugees to British pensioners to black artists to the unemployed to working people to families of all ethnicities. As it is Ramadan, a lot of the men were out at night time prayers at the time and came back to find the block engulfed in flames. Some people do actually choose to live in these blocks because of the sense of community, but it does not sound like living in Grenfell Tower was a very enjoyable experience, according to the (white, British, well-educated) ex-chair of the residents' association.

It was a council run block, and while illegal sub-letting cannot be entirely ruled out (much the same as in any other country - it even goes on in the Netherlands, despite registration), it's probably not as bad as it would be if the flats were in the hands of private landlords. To explain to non-Brits, we definitely have areas where there are concentrations of ethnic minorities, and they definitely do often occur in areas of deprivation. However, I'm not sure it's directly comparable to the US's projects. This block was in the borough of Kensington and Chelsea, a very affluent area, no ghetto, as someone else has already mentioned. People of all levels of affluence live virtually cheek by jowl down there. If you look at the crowds milling about there now and indeed at the photos of those missing, you can see that there are plenty of white faces in the mix. There seems to have been a very strong community, not separated along ethnic or religious lines.

I think we are in a different place generally here in the UK than perhaps the US is regarding race. I'm not saying it's better necessarily, but perhaps because we're a much smaller country, necessity dictates we integrate in many areas. There are still a huge amount of problems, but I don't think people necessarily realise that there are a number of functioning multicultural areas in this tiny country, as they don't get to see it. I spent a big chunk of my time in one as a teen. There were problems, but large numbers of Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Indians, Afto-Caribbeans, those from various African countries, Eastern Europeans and white British people lived together, attended the same schools, worked in the same places and socialised together without issues a lot of the time.

Generally flats in council blocks aren't bought and sold on the the private market. Tenants do have a right to buy them but most banks won't give mortgages on them (they are too high risk hmmm)

Kensington is more than well off, it incredibly rich think Manhattan.

One major difference between the UK and the US is due to our small size very poor people can live very close even opposite to millionaires even billionaires. It probably affects our politics as no matter how rich you are you can't avoid seeing poverty (there are a few exceptions in rural areas but on the whole the UK is urban)

On the whole the UK is not urban, less than 10% is, as was the case the last time you claimed it to be. The rest I agree with though. This was not a ghetto or no-go area for white people or whatever.

% of area or % of people?

Fallible wrote:On the whole the UK is not urban, less than 10% is, as was the case the last time you claimed it to be. The rest I agree with though. This was not a ghetto or no-go area for white people or whatever.

People live in cities or work in them.

Put it another way how many people live in detached houses, they are the norm in the US and extremely rare in the UK due to space

Well most of the UK is fields, but few people live there

This is really a side issue, and as usual there is a lot of fluff and simple wrongness in your comments. Maybe start a thread if you want this discussion.

Where is the evidence of subletting in the Netherlands?
We dont have council houses. We have very strict inspections. Everybody must register where they are living at the town hall. There are illegals but compared to the UK their numbers are miniscule. Please dont tar us with the same social mess that happens in the UK.

NineBerry wrote:% of area or % of people?

The UK is 83% urban by population.

By area is a meaningless statistic unless you're looking at somewhere like Macao or Monaco.

Scot Dutchy wrote:Where is the evidence of subletting in the Netherlands?
We dont have council houses. We have very strict inspections. Everybody must register where they are living at the town hall. There are illegals but compared to the UK their numbers are miniscule. Please dont tar us with the same social mess that happens in the UK.

Start a thread.

Fallible wrote:

Scot Dutchy wrote:Where is the evidence of subletting in the Netherlands?
We dont have council houses. We have very strict inspections. Everybody must register where they are living at the town hall. There are illegals but compared to the UK their numbers are miniscule. Please dont tar us with the same social mess that happens in the UK.

Start a thread.

You made the claim. Prove it.

As I said, start a thread on the topic if you want that, please. Don't derail this one due to a one-line comment in a much larger post.

Fallible wrote:As I said, start a thread on the topic if you want that, please. Don't derail this one due to a one-line comment in a much larger post.

Why make it if you cant prove it?

I didnt say I cant prove it. I'm trying to prevent a derail, so please start a thread.

Fallible wrote:I didnt say I cant prove it. I'm trying to prevent a derail, so please start a thread.

I am not making the claim.

I don't see how that's relevant. Just start a thread.

Fall, Scot, here's some kittehs. Just chill, and let's move on, eh?