The Clinton Victory Thread

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Re: The Clinton Victory Thread

#1841  Postby WayOfTheDodo » Jul 25, 2016 9:39 pm

Briton wrote:I wonder though if the rest of the world would be better off with Trump than with war hawk Clinton? If he is more isolationist than Clinton then that could be the case. Probably not in reality I guess; he'll probably fall into line with the war for profit machine.

Riiight. Dubya was isolationist too, wasn't he? "No More Nation-building"? Trump is completely unpredictable. He could end up doing anything. He would most likely choose the worst option in most cases. I wouldn't believe a fucking word he says.
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Re: The Clinton Victory Thread

#1842  Postby Willie71 » Jul 25, 2016 9:44 pm

Shrunk wrote:
Willie71 wrote:The DNC claims its neutral, and does not put its hand on the scales. They claimed that Sanders was given a fair chance, when in fact they discussed feeding information to the media to discredit him. They used demeaning language, and insulted Sanders and his supporters.


So no cheating. Thanks for confirming.


There is a lot of evidence of cheating, but the lawsuits are still in progress. The fact that the lawsuits weren't dismissed as frivolous is telling to a certain extent, showing legal basis. That isn't good enough for many people, so I didn't list it. The fact that the DNC worked to support Clinton and dismiss sanders isn't "cheating" in a neutral contest? If a ref in a hockey game worked with one team against another team would be cheating to me, but I guess it's not a universal standard.
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Re: The Clinton Victory Thread

#1843  Postby Willie71 » Jul 25, 2016 9:58 pm

From Ring of Fire. Well said:

The DNC Email leak is a big deal – in spite of what the Hillary apologists want us to believe. They are trying to distract us on this issue, but that doesn’t change what was contained within those emails. Ring of Fire’s Farron Cousins discusses this.



Transcript of the above video:

A pretty busy weekend for the Democratic National Committee. Debbie Wasserman Schultz resigned in the wake of the massive email leak that was released on Friday, but here’s the thing. A lot of people have covered this story, it’s a big story and it means a lot. Let’s get a couple of things out of the way really quick.

Bernie Sanders did lose the nomination by 3 million votes. Okay? Maybe that would have been different had the DNC not been working against him. Unfortunately, that’s something we just can’t know anymore. A lot of the Hillary apologists, I guess you have to call them at this point, are saying that it doesn’t matter. You know? The Russians leaked this, and that’s what we need to be focused on, is how they’re working for Donald Trump. There is absolutely no evidence available at this time, at the time that I am sitting in front of this camera, to suggest that the Russians did this in any way. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that. That claim was made by a Clinton surrogate on the Sunday morning talk shows who provided, again, no evidence.

Even if they did, that doesn’t matter right now. It’s something that should be dealt with if it turns out to be true, absolutely. That doesn’t change the content of those emails, where we had the heads of the DNC actively working to derail a democrat. Actively working to promote Hillary Clinton. That is not fair, that is not an unbiased neutral referee as they claim to be. The DNC was working against Bernie Sanders and they had even come up with several pretty horrible smears that they were considering using against him, including using the fact that he’s Jewish against him in the south. That’s something that we’ve seen republicans do. This is stuff that would read right out of the republican playbook. We’re suppose to just accept that because it’s the democratic party? Let me ask the Hillary apologists this. If we found out that the DNC was actively working to promote Bernie Sanders and derail Hillary, how would you feel at this point? What would you be saying?

Don’t dismiss it just because it went in your favor this time. It may not happen that way next time. Debbie Wasserman Schultz is a disgrace. Not just to the DNC, but to this country because she’s still an elected official. Hopefully Tim Canova, her primary opponent uses this to take her out. We don’t need her in congress, we don’t need her in Philadelphia right now, and we certainly don’t need her in the DNC. This is unforgivable.

Another thing that’s interesting about this is that for months … Months, and months, and months, and months, these Hillary apologists were out there attacking Bernie Sanders supporters for being unrealistic, for being paranoid, for making up these conspiracy theories. This past weekend, every single one of those claims was validated. The Bernie Sanders supporter were vindicated. Have you seen any apologies from the Hillary supporters saying they were wrong to call out the Bernie supporters? I sure as hell haven’t. I’ve seen Meghan McCain tweet out that she takes back what she said.

Here’s the thing. When you screw up, when you say something that’s not true, you have to apologize. That’s what I’m waiting to see. I want to see all of these Hillary Clinton supporters out there apologize for being wrong. For accusing the Sanders supporters of being paranoid. Again, everything was validated this weekend and it could not have happened at a worst time for Hillary Clinton. We’re at a point where some of the rifts within the democratic party were healing. Many of the Bernie Sanders supporters were coming over to Hillary. That’s not going to happen now. It’s not. This email leak very well could have handed the election to Donald Trump, and at this point if the democrats lose this election, they absolutely deserve it. They did this to themselves.


http://trofire.com/2016/07/25/dnc-email ... -election/
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Re: The Clinton Victory Thread

#1844  Postby purplerat » Jul 26, 2016 12:14 am

Willie71 wrote:
The DNC claims its neutral...

Because if there's one thing political parties are known for it's their lack of partisanship :what:
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Re: The Clinton Victory Thread

#1845  Postby Shrunk » Jul 26, 2016 12:18 am

WayOfTheDodo wrote:Clinton was more than happy to hire Debbie the Dirtbag the moment she was forced to resign from the DNC for her incompetence and corruption. Goes to show what kind of candidate Clinton is.


Yes. The sheer tone-deafness of that decision bothers me more than anything else about this affair.
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Re: The Clinton Victory Thread

#1846  Postby Rachel Bronwyn » Jul 26, 2016 12:24 am

Absolutely. That's Trump-level confidence right there. It just comes across as petty, like she knows it'll enrage people and that she can get away with it because she's already won so she's going to do it and laugh all the way to the bank. Comes across as awfully childish....
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Re: The Clinton Victory Thread

#1847  Postby Shrunk » Jul 26, 2016 12:24 am

Willie71 wrote:There is a lot of evidence of cheating, but the lawsuits are still in progress. The fact that the lawsuits weren't dismissed as frivolous is telling to a certain extent, showing legal basis. That isn't good enough for many people, so I didn't list it. The fact that the DNC worked to support Clinton and dismiss sanders isn't "cheating" in a neutral contest?


The error lies in giving the misimpression that this is, and should be, a neutral process. It isn't, and shouldn't be. The RNC was correct in trying to prevent a dangerous loon like Trump from winning the nomination. Neutrality would have represented a failure to do their job. Whether the DNC should have done the same to Sanders is, of course, highly debatable. But that a party is required to be neutral on all candidates can only be held by people who don't understand how the political system properly functions.

http://www.vox.com/2016/2/24/11103704/t ... -is-broken
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Re: The Clinton Victory Thread

#1848  Postby Willie71 » Jul 26, 2016 12:38 am

Shrunk wrote:
Willie71 wrote:There is a lot of evidence of cheating, but the lawsuits are still in progress. The fact that the lawsuits weren't dismissed as frivolous is telling to a certain extent, showing legal basis. That isn't good enough for many people, so I didn't list it. The fact that the DNC worked to support Clinton and dismiss sanders isn't "cheating" in a neutral contest?


The error lies in giving the misimpression that this is, and should be, a neutral process. It isn't, and shouldn't be. The RNC was correct in trying to prevent a dangerous loon like Trump from winning the nomination. Neutrality would have represented a failure to do their job. Whether the DNC should have done the same to Sanders is, of course, highly debatable. But that a party is required to be neutral on all candidates can only be held by people who don't understand how the political system properly functions.

http://www.vox.com/2016/2/24/11103704/t ... -is-broken


I am not the one who said it should be neutral. The DNC did. Whether it should or should not be is a different discussion, with pros and cons both ways.
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Re: The Clinton Victory Thread

#1849  Postby Shrunk » Jul 26, 2016 12:41 am

Willie71 wrote:I am not the one who said it should be neutral. The DNC did. Whether it should or should not be is a different discussion, with pros and cons both ways.


So we're in agreement. Clinton didn't cheat. The fault lies in the DNC saying it was neutral, when it wasn't. TBH, the fault really lies in anyone who believed that tosh. Not that I think Sanders did.
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Re: The Clinton Victory Thread

#1850  Postby Boyle » Jul 26, 2016 12:43 am

I'm pretty sure the Sandman has said that the DNC (or the system) was working against him. Usually after he lost a primary or something.
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Re: The Clinton Victory Thread

#1851  Postby GT2211 » Jul 26, 2016 1:11 am

Boyle wrote:I'm pretty sure the Sandman has said that the DNC (or the system) was working against him. Usually after he lost a primary or something.

He did. Ezra Klein wrote an article about Bernie playing a dangerous game for Dems as he increasingly started claiming every loss was illegitimate. I recall how annoyed Bernie got when reporters would ask if that would create a potential issue.
http://www.vox.com/2016/4/19/11464938/b ... -primaries


Now we got this tweet from his press secretary claiming the elections weren't rigged.
https://twitter.com/SymoneDSanders/stat ... 6455887872


And reports of Sanders texting supporters to knock off the shenanigans. Unfortunately I can't even say its his bed as the whole party is stuck sleeping in it.
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Re: The Clinton Victory Thread

#1852  Postby Willie71 » Jul 26, 2016 1:57 am

Shrunk wrote:
WayOfTheDodo wrote:Clinton was more than happy to hire Debbie the Dirtbag the moment she was forced to resign from the DNC for her incompetence and corruption. Goes to show what kind of candidate Clinton is.


Yes. The sheer tone-deafness of that decision bothers me more than anything else about this affair.


It seems it's a message to people who are thinking of jumping ship. "Stick with me and I'll look after you, no matter how bad it stinks."
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Re: The Clinton Victory Thread

#1853  Postby proudfootz » Jul 26, 2016 3:16 am

Shrunk wrote:
WayOfTheDodo wrote:Clinton was more than happy to hire Debbie the Dirtbag the moment she was forced to resign from the DNC for her incompetence and corruption. Goes to show what kind of candidate Clinton is.


Yes. The sheer tone-deafness of that decision bothers me more than anything else about this affair.


I think it was a poor decision.

With a little luck it won't hurt the efforts to stop Trump.
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Re: The Clinton Victory Thread

#1854  Postby Willie71 » Jul 26, 2016 3:18 am

More bad news. I lost respect for Nate Silver but many here defended him vigorously. Silver is predicting a trump win.

Nate Silver of FiveThirtyEight.com, who is widely regarded as one of the top political pollsters in the country, has released a new model that shows Trump shellacking Hillary Clinton, with the projected chance of victory for Trump standing at a margin of 13.4 points.

In terms of raw electoral college votes, Silver’s map shows Trump finishing with 283 electoral college votes to Clinton’2 253, if the election were held today. A candidate needs 270 electoral college votes to win. Trump also wins key swing states like Florida, Iowa, Nevada, North Carolina, Ohio, and Pennsylvania. Clinton’s only swing state wins are Colorado and Virginia, according to FiveThirtyEight’s projections.


http://usuncut.com/politics/donald-trum ... rojection/
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Re: The Clinton Victory Thread

#1855  Postby CdesignProponentsist » Jul 26, 2016 3:31 am

Great speech from Bernie tonight. This was certainly the most important speech of the election.
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Re: The Clinton Victory Thread

#1856  Postby laklak » Jul 26, 2016 3:51 am

proudfootz wrote:I think it was a poor decision.


You're damning it with faint praise, it's a fucking abysmal decision. It's about the biggest, most arrogant "Fuck You" she could come up with. To Bernie, his supporters, pretty much everybody, actually. It's as tone deaf as Trump's comment about shooting somebody on 5th Avenue. We can cheat, lie, do whatever we want, and y'all can't do a fucking thing about it.
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Re: The Clinton Victory Thread

#1857  Postby GT2211 » Jul 26, 2016 4:03 am

Willie71 wrote:More bad news. I lost respect for Nate Silver but many here defended him vigorously. Silver is predicting a trump win.

Nate Silver of FiveThirtyEight.com, who is widely regarded as one of the top political pollsters in the country, has released a new model that shows Trump shellacking Hillary Clinton, with the projected chance of victory for Trump standing at a margin of 13.4 points.

In terms of raw electoral college votes, Silver’s map shows Trump finishing with 283 electoral college votes to Clinton’2 253, if the election were held today. A candidate needs 270 electoral college votes to win. Trump also wins key swing states like Florida, Iowa, Nevada, North Carolina, Ohio, and Pennsylvania. Clinton’s only swing state wins are Colorado and Virginia, according to FiveThirtyEight’s projections.


http://usuncut.com/politics/donald-trum ... rojection/



283-253 is a shellacking?
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Re: The Clinton Victory Thread

#1858  Postby Willie71 » Jul 26, 2016 4:13 am

I agree it's hyperbolic.
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Re: The Clinton Victory Thread

#1859  Postby OlivierK » Jul 26, 2016 12:07 pm

It's a tiny lead (refleccting the fact that Silver still projects Clinton marginally more likely to win the popular vote) obtained in the week of the Republican convention bounce, and prior to the Democratic convention. All up, it's not something that should have anyone putting the house on Trump. Given Trump's awfulness, though, the Democratic candidate should be streets ahead at this point, but they chose someone deeply unpopular, because it was her turn. It's all sorts of fucked up, but only in the way it's been fucked up for months now.
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Re: The Clinton Victory Thread

#1860  Postby crank » Jul 26, 2016 12:26 pm

Willie71 wrote:From Ring of Fire. Well said:

The DNC Email leak is a big deal – in spite of what the Hillary apologists want us to believe. They are trying to distract us on this issue, but that doesn’t change what was contained within those emails. Ring of Fire’s Farron Cousins discusses this.



Transcript of the above video:

A pretty busy weekend for the Democratic National Committee. Debbie Wasserman Schultz resigned in the wake of the massive email leak that was released on Friday, but here’s the thing. A lot of people have covered this story, it’s a big story and it means a lot. Let’s get a couple of things out of the way really quick.

Bernie Sanders did lose the nomination by 3 million votes. Okay? Maybe that would have been different had the DNC not been working against him. Unfortunately, that’s something we just can’t know anymore. A lot of the Hillary apologists, I guess you have to call them at this point, are saying that it doesn’t matter. You know? The Russians leaked this, and that’s what we need to be focused on, is how they’re working for Donald Trump. There is absolutely no evidence available at this time, at the time that I am sitting in front of this camera, to suggest that the Russians did this in any way. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that. That claim was made by a Clinton surrogate on the Sunday morning talk shows who provided, again, no evidence.

Even if they did, that doesn’t matter right now. It’s something that should be dealt with if it turns out to be true, absolutely. That doesn’t change the content of those emails, where we had the heads of the DNC actively working to derail a democrat. Actively working to promote Hillary Clinton. That is not fair, that is not an unbiased neutral referee as they claim to be. The DNC was working against Bernie Sanders and they had even come up with several pretty horrible smears that they were considering using against him, including using the fact that he’s Jewish against him in the south. That’s something that we’ve seen republicans do. This is stuff that would read right out of the republican playbook. We’re suppose to just accept that because it’s the democratic party? Let me ask the Hillary apologists this. If we found out that the DNC was actively working to promote Bernie Sanders and derail Hillary, how would you feel at this point? What would you be saying?

Don’t dismiss it just because it went in your favor this time. It may not happen that way next time. Debbie Wasserman Schultz is a disgrace. Not just to the DNC, but to this country because she’s still an elected official. Hopefully Tim Canova, her primary opponent uses this to take her out. We don’t need her in congress, we don’t need her in Philadelphia right now, and we certainly don’t need her in the DNC. This is unforgivable.

Another thing that’s interesting about this is that for months … Months, and months, and months, and months, these Hillary apologists were out there attacking Bernie Sanders supporters for being unrealistic, for being paranoid, for making up these conspiracy theories. This past weekend, every single one of those claims was validated. The Bernie Sanders supporter were vindicated. Have you seen any apologies from the Hillary supporters saying they were wrong to call out the Bernie supporters? I sure as hell haven’t. I’ve seen Meghan McCain tweet out that she takes back what she said.

Here’s the thing. When you screw up, when you say something that’s not true, you have to apologize. That’s what I’m waiting to see. I want to see all of these Hillary Clinton supporters out there apologize for being wrong. For accusing the Sanders supporters of being paranoid. Again, everything was validated this weekend and it could not have happened at a worst time for Hillary Clinton. We’re at a point where some of the rifts within the democratic party were healing. Many of the Bernie Sanders supporters were coming over to Hillary. That’s not going to happen now. It’s not. This email leak very well could have handed the election to Donald Trump, and at this point if the democrats lose this election, they absolutely deserve it. They did this to themselves.


http://trofire.com/2016/07/25/dnc-email ... -election/

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