Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

Why were many of history's most brutal regimes authored by atheists?

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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#661  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jan 11, 2015 10:51 am

carl wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:It is does no good at all so please shut up about it doing good. Tell that to all the victims of abuse by belief systems. Not just sexual but also mental abuse.


"Please Shut up"? ok, I'll try to keep my opinions to myself next time LOL !

But FYI, I have a thread on how abuse by religious institutions most likely has caused emotional trauma leading to skepticism in later life.

See: Skepticism: Link to Emotional Trauma in the Early Years? Can emotional trauma in childhood be a factor leading to skepticism in adulthood?

http://www.rationalskepticism.org/socia ... 47752.html

The 30+ mini-bios of famous skeptics have multiple instances of abuse by religious institutions.


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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#662  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jan 11, 2015 10:58 am

carl wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:It is does no good at all so please shut up about it doing good. Tell that to all the victims of abuse by belief systems. Not just sexual but also mental abuse.


"Please Shut up"? ok, I'll try to keep my opinions to myself next time LOL !

But FYI, I have a thread on how abuse by religious institutions most likely has caused emotional trauma leading to skepticism in later life.

See: Skepticism: Link to Emotional Trauma in the Early Years? Can emotional trauma in childhood be a factor leading to skepticism in adulthood?

http://www.rationalskepticism.org/socia ... 47752.html

The 30+ mini-bios of famous skeptics have multiple instances of abuse by religious institutions.

Stop lying carl.
The list of people you provided are neither mini-bios, nor are they all skeptics. A lot of them are the opposite as a matter of fact.
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#663  Postby carl » Jan 11, 2015 10:58 am

Fallible wrote:You are demonstrably not listening to what people are saying. You just drop a cowpat, go away for weeks then come back, skim some posts and drop the same stinking mess again. It has already been pointed out to you that ATHEISTS GIVE TO EXTANT ORGANISATIONS - THEY DON'T GIVE UNDER A BANNER.


Cowpat? Sounds like a local colloquialism.

Anyway, I was gone for 2 weeks because I was enjoying a nice vacation with my family visiting snow-covered mountains, one zoo, one cave, Mt Rushmore, Crazy Horse Mountain, etc.. The natural sights were amazing in Colorado and South Dakota! How a "boring" God (according to skeptics) could create such an interesting world, I don't know. If I'm gone for a while, its because I went on a family trip or I was suspended from the forum, even sequentially - I have been gone for all of the above reasons.

You said: Atheist Organizations "don't give under a banner" although they do a lot of very high-profile and very expensive things under huge banners. But not when it comes to helping starving children in third-world nations. ok.

Did you know most Christians don't give under a banner either? Why?

Matthew 6:
1 "Take care! Don't do your good deeds publicly, to be admired, because then you will lose the reward from your Father in heaven. 2 When you give a gift to someone in need, don't shout about it as the hypocrites do -- blowing trumpets in the synagogues and streets to call attention to their acts of charity! I assure you, they have received all the reward they will ever get. 3 But when you give to someone, don't tell your left hand what your right hand is doing. 4 Give your gifts in secret, and your Father, who knows all secrets, will reward you." 5 "And now about prayer. When you pray, don't be like the hypocrites who love to pray publicly on street corners and in the synagogues where everyone can see them. I assure you, that is all the reward they will ever get. 6 But when you pray, go away by yourself, shut the door behind you, and pray to your Father secretly. Then your Father, who knows all secrets, will reward you." 7 "When you pray, don't babble on and on as people of other religions do. They think their prayers are answered only by repeating their words again and again. 8 Don't be like them, because your Father knows exactly what you need even before you ask him! 9 Pray like this: Our Father in heaven, may your name be honored. 10 May your Kingdom come soon. May your will be done here on earth, just as it is in heaven. 11 Give us our food for today, 12 and forgive us our sins, just as we have forgiven those who have sinned against us. 13 And don't let us yield to temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. " 14 "If you forgive those who sin against you, your heavenly Father will forgive you. 15 But if you refuse to forgive others, your Father will not forgive your sins." 16 "And when you fast, don't make it obvious, as the hypocrites do, who try to look pale and disheveled so people will admire them for their fasting. I assure you, that is the only reward they will ever get. 17 But when you fast, comb your hair and wash your face. 18 Then no one will suspect you are fasting, except your Father, who knows what you do in secret. And your Father, who knows all secrets, will reward you."
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#664  Postby carl » Jan 11, 2015 10:59 am

Thomas Eshuis wrote:The list of people you provided are neither mini-bios, nor are they all skeptics. A lot of them are the opposite as a matter of fact.


Which ones?
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#665  Postby Fallible » Jan 11, 2015 11:05 am

carl wrote:
Fallible wrote:You are demonstrably not listening to what people are saying. You just drop a cowpat, go away for weeks then come back, skim some posts and drop the same stinking mess again. It has already been pointed out to you that ATHEISTS GIVE TO EXTANT ORGANISATIONS - THEY DON'T GIVE UNDER A BANNER.


Cowpat? Sounds like a local colloquialism.


Cow shit.

Anyway, I was gone for 2 weeks because I was enjoying a nice vacation with my family visiting snow-covered mountains, one zoo, one cave, Mt Rushmore, Crazy Horse Mountain, etc.. The natural sights were amazing in Colorado and South Dakota!


I know why you were gone this time, you made a lot of it beforehand. However this pattern pre-dates your holiday.

How a "boring" God (according to skeptics) could create such an interesting world, I don't know.


I don't think a boring god made anything, so this is another fib on your part.

If I'm gone for a while, its because I went on a family trip or I was suspended from the forum, even sequentially - I have been gone for all of the above reasons.


The reason for your absence is neither here nor there. I am remarking upon the pattern - you come, you dump shit, you go, you come back, skim, then dump the same shit.

You said: Atheist Organizations "don't give under a banner" although they do a lot of very high-profile and very expensive things under huge banners. But not when it comes to helping starving children in third-world nations. ok.


Which things do they do under a huge banner, carl?

Did you know most Christians don't give under a banner either? Why?

Matthew 6:
1 "Take care! Don't do your good deeds publicly, to be admired, because then you will lose the reward from your Father in heaven. 2 When you give a gift to someone in need, don't shout about it as the hypocrites do -- blowing trumpets in the synagogues and streets to call attention to their acts of charity! I assure you, they have received all the reward they will ever get. 3 But when you give to someone, don't tell your left hand what your right hand is doing. 4 Give your gifts in secret, and your Father, who knows all secrets, will reward you." 5 "And now about prayer. When you pray, don't be like the hypocrites who love to pray publicly on street corners and in the synagogues where everyone can see them. I assure you, that is all the reward they will ever get. 6 But when you pray, go away by yourself, shut the door behind you, and pray to your Father secretly. Then your Father, who knows all secrets, will reward you." 7 "When you pray, don't babble on and on as people of other religions do. They think their prayers are answered only by repeating their words again and again. 8 Don't be like them, because your Father knows exactly what you need even before you ask him! 9 Pray like this: Our Father in heaven, may your name be honored. 10 May your Kingdom come soon. May your will be done here on earth, just as it is in heaven. 11 Give us our food for today, 12 and forgive us our sins, just as we have forgiven those who have sinned against us. 13 And don't let us yield to temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. " 14 "If you forgive those who sin against you, your heavenly Father will forgive you. 15 But if you refuse to forgive others, your Father will not forgive your sins." 16 "And when you fast, don't make it obvious, as the hypocrites do, who try to look pale and disheveled so people will admire them for their fasting. I assure you, that is the only reward they will ever get. 17 But when you fast, comb your hair and wash your face. 18 Then no one will suspect you are fasting, except your Father, who knows what you do in secret. And your Father, who knows all secrets, will reward you."


Thanks for completely contradicting your own argument. Fuck, this is easy.
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#666  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jan 11, 2015 11:27 am

carl wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:The list of people you provided are neither mini-bios, nor are they all skeptics. A lot of them are the opposite as a matter of fact.


Which ones?

If you'd read my fucking response to your OP, you'd know.
http://www.rationalskepticism.org/social-sciences/skepticism-link-to-emotional-trauma-in-the-early-years-t47752-20.html#p2135898
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#667  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jan 11, 2015 11:30 am

Carl is playing the typical theist trick; having more than one thread dealing with almost the same theme.

I propose all the thread being put into a single dog-pile.
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#668  Postby ADParker » Jan 11, 2015 11:31 am

carl wrote:
ADParker wrote:
carl wrote: I simply pointed out what their own organizations say about themselves; that actual charity is not their primary focus, and in large part what charity they do is as a part of fostering their prime goal: growing their religious flocks.


So what you're saying is:
1) If the church DOES good works, it is for the wrong motive but...
2) If the church DOESN'T do good works, why isn't the church DOING good?

Your Catch-22 reveals your bias. Thanks anyway.

Amusing, given that it should be obvious that that was not what I was saying at all. :roll:
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#669  Postby ADParker » Jan 11, 2015 11:45 am

carl wrote:
ADParker wrote:What about them? Of the few I know about I know that what they do is collect amongst themselves and donate all collected to existing charities, rather than setting up their own. In part I think this is because atheist organizations don't have the centuries of organization behind them, nor the simple fast track that religious organizations do; Religions don't have to go through all the hoops non religious groups have to to obtain charitable status. Religions get that automatically even if they don't do any charity at all. On the flip side I recall what the Richard Dawkins Foundation had to go through; all kinds of hoops and red tape, including separating themselves from the RDF forum. Funny that religious groups don't have any such requirement to separate their charities from their preaching 'work', or open their books for that matter.


How many atheist organizations are there? Of the total, what percentage have established charitable entities to help starving people in third world nations?

I have no idea. Why this narrow focus on "starving people in third world nations" by the way? A fine target for charity of course, but hardly the only one.

What does this have to do with genocides again?! :what:

carl wrote:Answer: Zero.

:dunno:

carl wrote:If atheist organizations feel so strongly about helping starving children in third-world nations, they would DO something, regardless of the hoops. You're saying the hoops stops 100% of all atheist organizations? Or is this just a symptom of the priorities of those organizations? They prioritize expensive lawsuits, billboards, conventions....

Heh! Like religious organizations don't spend tons more on those same things. :roll:
And again; no, that is not what I was saying... you really need to work on that, if you care about the truth that is.

carl wrote:Therefore, I don't think your point is valid.

You don't appear to have a clue what my point even is. :roll:

There are plenty of secular charities, which unlike many religious ones do not bring their baggage of beliefs and the proselytizing thereof along for the ride, not even for atheism. Which is probably why you keep insisting on focusing on "atheist organizations". So that you can do the equivalent of claiming that men are uncharitable because there are hardly any (if any) "mens organization" charities. :nono:
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#670  Postby Fenrir » Jan 11, 2015 11:48 am

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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#671  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jan 11, 2015 11:52 am

Yep that sums it up.

Religious charities love poor starving people.
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#672  Postby redwhine » Jan 11, 2015 11:56 am

carl wrote:How many atheist organizations are there?

None (AFAIK). (Organising atheists is likened to herding cats.)

Therefore, I don't think your point is valid.
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#673  Postby ADParker » Jan 11, 2015 11:59 am

carl wrote:But FYI, I have a thread on how abuse by religious institutions most likely has caused emotional trauma leading to skepticism in later life.

See: Skepticism: Link to Emotional Trauma in the Early Years? Can emotional trauma in childhood be a factor leading to skepticism in adulthood?

http://www.rationalskepticism.org/socia ... 47752.html

The 30+ mini-bios of famous skeptics have multiple instances of abuse by religious institutions.

Except by "mini-bios" you mean your own, often ignorant, spin. And many of those "emotional traumas" are both assumed and have nothing to do with "abuse by religious institutions". Not to mention it all being a rather idiotic attempt at poisoning the well through cherry picking (and distorting) just that which you think fits your agenda. :yuk:

If I post a list of 30+ Americans (or Brits...) that have murdered people, do you think that will make my case that Americans (or Brits...) are murderous thugs, do you think? :think:
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#674  Postby Fenrir » Jan 11, 2015 12:12 pm

That image is a direct link to an ad I saw on an ordinary Web page by the way, I haven't altered it in any way.

Now look at his eyes and tell me the thing he needs most is proselytising.

Personally I suspect something like lamivudine would fit my idea of "good works" or "compassion" a lot better. Particularly if someone was rabbiting on about good works without ulterior motives or expectations.

Carl probably wonders why I find his declamations repulsive.
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#675  Postby BlackBart » Jan 11, 2015 12:17 pm

redwhine wrote:
carl wrote:How many atheist organizations are there?

None (AFAIK). (Organising atheists is likened to herding cats.)

Therefore, I don't think your point is valid.


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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#676  Postby Fallible » Jan 11, 2015 12:41 pm

Jeez, you're so pushy and strident.
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#677  Postby BlackBart » Jan 11, 2015 12:54 pm

I know. I'm having a sit-in at the bottom of your garden next Thursday, BTW. I can count on you for tea and bikkies? :thumbup:
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#678  Postby Fallible » Jan 11, 2015 1:03 pm

Unfortunately I will be attending a conference hosted by the People-Who-Have-No-Belief-In-Water-Spirits's Front that day.
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#679  Postby BlackBart » Jan 11, 2015 1:17 pm

We got one of them thar anymphists heyah. :nono:
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#680  Postby Nebogipfel » Jan 11, 2015 2:18 pm

carl wrote:
ADParker wrote:What about them? Of the few I know about I know that what they do is collect amongst themselves and donate all collected to existing charities, rather than setting up their own. In part I think this is because atheist organizations don't have the centuries of organization behind them, nor the simple fast track that religious organizations do; Religions don't have to go through all the hoops non religious groups have to to obtain charitable status. Religions get that automatically even if they don't do any charity at all. On the flip side I recall what the Richard Dawkins Foundation had to go through; all kinds of hoops and red tape, including separating themselves from the RDF forum. Funny that religious groups don't have any such requirement to separate their charities from their preaching 'work', or open their books for that matter.


How many atheist organizations are there? Of the total, what percentage have established charitable entities to help starving people in third world nations? Answer: Zero.


Jesus, carl, you a really stuck in "write only" mode. :doh:
Here's some of the secular organizations I and my wife donate to:
Amnesty International
Red Cross
Doctors Without Borders

Why are there few if any explicitly athiest charities? This link gives a good explanation:
Humanists doing good

Short answer: As far as athiests are concerned, there don't need to be any.It only seems to be religionists with an axe to grind who think there need to be any.


If atheist organizations feel so strongly about helping starving children in third-world nations, they would DO something, regardless of the hoops. You're saying the hoops stops 100% of all atheist organizations? Or is this just a symptom of the priorities of those organizations? They prioritize expensive lawsuits, billboards, conventions....


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You were saying...?
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