The Golden Rule

Macdoc · **#21** by **Macdoc** » Jul 08, 2010 9:35 pm

I'd say the call to inaction ( leave others alone ) is more universal than the call to action "treat others as you"

tuco · **#22** by **tuco** » Jul 08, 2010 9:35 pm

num1cubfn wrote:It may be very common amongst humans but that doesn't make it universal or fundamental, and it definitely doesn't make it (neccesarily) accurate.

Yes, that is your opinion, and it is noted.

THWOTH · **#23** by **THWOTH** » Jul 08, 2010 9:37 pm

LIFE wrote:Golden
"Treat others as you would like to be treated."

Why? That's the real question.

tuco · **#24** by **tuco** » Jul 08, 2010 9:38 pm

Macdoc wrote:I'd say the call to inaction ( leave others alone ) is more universal than the call to action "treat others as you"

The Golden rule does not call to action. It might call to reaction, and reaction is sometimes or even often inevitable.

tuco · **#25** by **tuco** » Jul 08, 2010 9:39 pm

THWOTH wrote:
LIFE wrote:Golden
"Treat others as you would like to be treated."

Why? That's the real question.

Because how else? Feel free to come up with something else ..

tuco · **#26** by **tuco** » Jul 08, 2010 9:44 pm

Macdoc wrote:

No offense but asking such question is reinventing the wheel. People ask these questions since the beginning of their time, and so far they came up with the Golden rule as pretty much universal and fundamental. In other words, it is, as much other folk wisdom, pretty much time-proven meme.

Proven to be a licence to be annoying to other people.
The inverse is NOT the same....it is passive "do not treat"

ie mind your own business and I'll mind mine.

••

Perhaps "your rights stop at my nose" works universally.

If your right stops at my nose, perhaps you should get off that scooter you have in your Avatar, because driving it, gets into my nose ;)

THWOTH · **#27** by **THWOTH** » Jul 08, 2010 9:46 pm

tuco wrote:
THWOTH wrote:
LIFE wrote:Golden
"Treat others as you would like to be treated."

Why? That's the real question.

Because how else? Feel free to come up with something else ..

Why not treat others just how you want to treat them - isn't that more honest?

tuco · **#28** by **tuco** » Jul 08, 2010 9:47 pm

How I want to treat them? I do not understand what it means. What I base this .. want to .. on?

edit: look I am not here to argue anything. What I said is essentially what wiki says, which is not to say wiki is right, but wiki has history of the rules and uses and such:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden_Rule

so feel free to make up your own mind.

*shrugs*

LIFE · **#29** by **LIFE** » Jul 08, 2010 10:35 pm

Animavore wrote:I don't believe there is. I'm very easy going so my ethic is basically to let people to pretty much what they want as long as what they are doing isn't harming others (harming oneself is fine by me).
This may not suit everyone.

That's pretty much what I think too.

LIFE · **#30** by **LIFE** » Jul 08, 2010 10:40 pm

tuco wrote:
LIFE wrote:So...

Golden
"Treat others as you would like to be treated."

What if I derive pleasure from pain?

So? What if others derive pleasure from pain? You test it and if it does not work, then you are out of luck so to say.

If I would hurt myself because I like it I would have to hurt others if I'd strictly follow the rule.

tuco wrote:
LIFE wrote:
Silver
"Do not treat others in ways you would not like to be treated".

What if Charles Manson was responsible for the death of my family and suddenly stood in front of me?

So? Again, how would you like to be treated if you were responsible for deaths? Though in the situation you describe I'd doubt you do much thinking or care about whats moral and whatnot. But maybe not, maybe you are one of those who do not let emotions to cloud their judgment I dunno.

I don't want to be killed so I couldn't kill Charles Manson -even though he would have killed my family- if I'd stricly follow the rule. Not that I wanted to but I couldn't if I were to be consistent.

tuco wrote:
LIFE wrote:Is there any ethical code that is practicable at the most fundamental level?

No offense but asking such question is reinventing the wheel. People ask these questions since the beginning of their time, and so far they came up with the Golden rule as pretty much universal and fundamental. In other words, it is, as much other folk wisdom, pretty much time-proven meme.

You can only know (for sure) what you feel, what you like, what you want etc etc, or at least think you know, so what else to base your behavior on? On a doctrine about mythical "better" world, or imaginary "good"? Sure, if you would like to be treated by others acting on their own doctrines

Not offended, thanks for your thoughts :cheers:

THWOTH · **#31** by **THWOTH** » Jul 08, 2010 11:26 pm

LIFE wrote:
tuco wrote:
LIFE wrote:So...

Golden
"Treat others as you would like to be treated."

What if I derive pleasure from pain?

So? What if others derive pleasure from pain? You test it and if it does not work, then you are out of luck so to say.

If I would hurt myself because I like it I would have to hurt others if I'd strictly follow the rule.

Nah, it depends....

The problem here is with the word 'treated' which is being used as a synonym for action.

You might derive pleasure from pain, yours or others say, but that does not oblige you to reciprocate and cause others pain to inculcate pleasure, either yours or yet others pleasure.

I would suggest that how you want to be 'treated' (regarded, dealt with, approached, handled in a certain way) is with respect, not with reciprocal action (well not without some common agreement between parties anyway), to have your person and your nature respected and acknowledged as essential components of the unique individual you are.

So now you can say that you treat others with respect, you respect their person and their nature, and in so doing you are tolerant and offer a model of how you would like them to regard, deal with, approach or handle you in return. And you treat others this way by choice, just the way you want to treat them, not because you particularly expect or demand that their treatment of you always has to be in alignment with your own desires and notions - for would you think it fair that others should expect or demand that you conform to their desires or notions?

However, in this one should note that not everything or everybody is equally respectable. Judgements are made because they have to be made, but only where they have to be made.

tuco · **#32** by **tuco** » Jul 08, 2010 11:27 pm

You do not "have to" anything, especially if you were a deviant from a standard :) The rule does not say there are no exception to it. What about human behaviour is universal in absolute sense like a speed of light in vacuum? If we argue that for something to be universal it has to be without exceptions, then sure, when it comes to human behavior perhaps nothing is universal and there is no such a thing as the so-called human nature.

edit: just to note that I am indoctrinated by EO Wilson point of view on this matter

HomerJay · **#33** by **HomerJay** » Jul 09, 2010 12:04 am

LIFE wrote:So...

Is there any ethical code that is practicable at the most fundamental level?

How about:

Be Good

Animavore · **#34** by **Animavore** » Jul 09, 2010 12:04 am

HomerJay wrote:
LIFE wrote:So...

Is there any ethical code that is practicable at the most fundamental level?

How about:

Be Good

Sounds like something you'd say to a child.

LIFE · **#35** by **LIFE** » Jul 09, 2010 12:08 am

HomerJay wrote:
LIFE wrote:So...

Is there any ethical code that is practicable at the most fundamental level?

How about:

Be Good

Define "good".

LIFE · **#36** by **LIFE** » Jul 09, 2010 12:10 am

tuco wrote:edit: just to note that I am indoctrinated by EO Wilson point of view on this matter

On my list.

HughMcB · **#37** by **HughMcB** » Jul 09, 2010 12:19 am

LIFE wrote:
HomerJay wrote:
LIFE wrote:So...

Is there any ethical code that is practicable at the most fundamental level?

How about:

Be Good

Define "good".

Good is subjective.

CookieJon · **#38** by **CookieJon** » Jul 09, 2010 1:08 am

LIFE wrote:So...

Golden
"Treat others as you would like to be treated."

What if I derive pleasure from pain?

No problem there. The Golden Rule does not imply that you should cause pain because you like pain, but rather treat others in a way that causes them pleasure (as you derive from pain). (er... "cause pleasure" sounds a bit creepy/weird, so shall we say "does not cause displeasure")

LIFE wrote:Silver
"Do not treat others in ways you would not like to be treated".

What if Charles Manson was responsible for the death of my family and suddenly stood in front of me?

Not the same. Punishing Manson for a crime is not the same as Manson deciding to perpetrate a crime for no reason.

Eg. I don't want to go to gaol, but I am happy to live by laws whereby I go to gaol if I commit a crime. Everyone is treated equally; commit a crime, do the time.

Thommo · **#39** by **Thommo** » Jul 09, 2010 1:11 am

LIFE wrote:Is there any ethical code that is practicable at the most fundamental level?

1. Always buy the beers when it's your round.

2. Fastest drinker determines when the next round is due, not the slowest.

3. Always go for the urinal furthest from the door if it's free, never occupy a urinal immediately adjacent to another pee'er if there's one free that isn't adjacent to another pee'er.

CookieJon · **#40** by **CookieJon** » Jul 09, 2010 1:18 am

Thommo wrote:3. Always go for the urinal furthest from the door if it's free, never occupy a urinal immediately adjacent to another pee'er if there's one free that isn't adjacent to another pee'er.

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