So...

Golden

"Treat others as you would like to be treated."

What if I derive pleasure from pain?

Silver

"Do not treat others in ways you would not like to be treated".

What if Charles Manson was responsible for the death of my family and suddenly stood in front of me?



Is there any ethical code that is practicable at the most fundamental level?

LIFE wrote:So...

Golden

"Treat others as you would like to be treated."

What if I derive pleasure from pain?

Silver

"Do not treat others in ways you would not like to be treated".

What if Charles Manson was responsible for the death of my family and suddenly stood in front of me?



Is there any ethical code that is practicable at the most fundamental level?

Try to leave the world better than you found it?

A friend of mine's ethic code is "Step over others as they intend to step over you".

Your ethics would have to depend on who you are, where you are and what your circumstances are.
I really can't see it any other way.

Animavore wrote:A friend of mine's ethic code is "Step over others as they intend to step over you".

Your ethics would have to depend on who you are, where you are and what your circumstances are.
I really can't see it any other way.

I like this.

Animavore wrote:A friend of mine's ethic code is "Step over others as they intend to step over you".

Your ethics would have to depend on who you are, where you are and what your circumstances are.
I really can't see it any other way.

Well something that would apply to all humans as a "basic" rule? Or is there none?

Tbickle wrote:Try to leave the world better than you found it?

Define "better"? Some Islamic Fundamentalist may think that leaving the world in a large explosion of blood and guts IS making the world better.

This is the essential problem with why no single rule will do.

To each their own.

Golden
"Treat others as you would like to be treated."

Is proselytizing and horrid....

Silver
"Do not treat others in ways you would not like to be treated".

is passive and far more tolerable.

My mum used to always tell me to leave the bathroom as I would like to find it. I'm sure that this could be applied to how we treat our environment.

I'd argue that, in general, the more simplistic the "rule" the less accurate it is, with the caveat that one cannot make a perfectly accurate statement without knowing literally everything that goes on within the entire universe, and in order to do that one must be larger than the universe itself to contain and collect all such knowledge - which is not possible. Also, the statement itself, if put on paper would not fit within the confines of even an infinitely large universe, since the size of said perfectly accurate statement would be directly proportional to the size of said universe, and would neccesarily need to be larger than the universe in which it resides - which is not possible.

LIFE wrote:

Animavore wrote:A friend of mine's ethic code is "Step over others as they intend to step over you".

Your ethics would have to depend on who you are, where you are and what your circumstances are.
I really can't see it any other way.

Well something that would apply to all humans as a "basic" rule? Or is there none?

I don't believe there is. I'm very easy going so my ethic is basically to let people to pretty much what they want as long as what they are doing isn't harming others (harming oneself is fine by me).
This may not suit everyone.

And here is GB Shaw's answer to the Golden Rule (again).

Do not do unto others as you would that they should do unto you. Their tastes may not be the same.

LIFE wrote:Is there any ethical code that is practicable at the most fundamental level?

Mine goes something like this:

1. Do no harm, and try to do good, to anybody that means you no harm.

2. If somebody harms you, or makes clear that they intend to harm you, you are entitled to abandon (1) above and do whatever it takes to beat them.

3. When you meet somebody you don't know and you have no way of knowing whether they mean good or ill, give them the benefit of the doubt. Only move from (1) to (2) above when their words or deeds give you reason to.


Whatcha reckon?

Ubjon wrote:My mum used to always tell me to leave the bathroom as I would like to find it. I'm sure that this could be applied to how we treat our environment.

It's not possible, though, since at any given moment the bathroom itself is not the bathroom that it once was. The location of specific electrons are in different place from moment to moment. Also, it's not possible for humans to breath, eat, move, sleep, or die without making a change to their environment.

HughMcB wrote:

Tbickle wrote:Try to leave the world better than you found it?

Define "better"? Some Islamic Fundamentalist may think that leaving the world in a large explosion of blood and guts IS making the world better.

This is the essential problem with why no single rule will do.

To each their own.

I agree, that there is no rule that will work for everyone or every situation, and better would be totally subjective of course. I think I'd like to forget the whole thing and have a drink.

Hey, maybe that's a good one...

num1cubfn wrote:

Ubjon wrote:My mum used to always tell me to leave the bathroom as I would like to find it. I'm sure that this could be applied to how we treat our environment.

It's not possible, though, since at any given moment the bathroom itself is not the bathroom that it once was. The location of specific electrons are in different place from moment to moment. Also, it's not possible for humans to breath, eat, move, sleep, or die without making a change to their environment.

That isn't what I said. I didn't say to leave it exactly as it was, I said to leave it as I'd like to find it.

Tbickle wrote:I think I'd like to forget the whole thing and have a drink.

Hey, maybe that's a good one...

I'm down for that one.

Ubjon wrote:

num1cubfn wrote:

Ubjon wrote:My mum used to always tell me to leave the bathroom as I would like to find it. I'm sure that this could be applied to how we treat our environment.

It's not possible, though, since at any given moment the bathroom itself is not the bathroom that it once was. The location of specific electrons are in different place from moment to moment. Also, it's not possible for humans to breath, eat, move, sleep, or die without making a change to their environment.

That isn't what I said. I didn't say to leave it exactly as it was, I said to leave it as I'd like to find it.

You're right. I completely misread what you said. My apologies.

Now to what you actually did say, we can go back to what was said a couple posts ago about "what you'd like" being a subjective statement, and thus very open to different people having completely opposite notions of what they'd like. So, unfortunately, because of it's use of subjectivity of desire, it's not a good general rule that all can live by because it assumes a commonality of desires.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrX_7UuL4Lw[/youtube]

LIFE wrote:So...

Golden

"Treat others as you would like to be treated."

What if I derive pleasure from pain?

So? What if others derive pleasure from pain? You test it and if it does not work, then you are out of luck so to say.

LIFE wrote:
Silver

"Do not treat others in ways you would not like to be treated".

What if Charles Manson was responsible for the death of my family and suddenly stood in front of me?

So? Again, how would you like to be treated if you were responsible for deaths? Though in the situation you describe I'd doubt you do much thinking or care about whats moral and whatnot. But maybe not, maybe you are one of those who do not let emotions to cloud their judgment I dunno.

Is there any ethical code that is practicable at the most fundamental level?

No offense but asking such question is reinventing the wheel. People ask these questions since the beginning of their time, and so far they came up with the Golden rule as pretty much universal and fundamental. In other words, it is, as much other folk wisdom, pretty much time-proven meme.

You can only know (for sure) what you feel, what you like, what you want etc etc, or at least think you know, so what else to base your behavior on? On a doctrine about mythical "better" world, or imaginary "good"? Sure, if you would like to be treated by others acting on their own doctrines ;)

No offense but asking such question is reinventing the wheel. People ask these questions since the beginning of their time, and so far they came up with the Golden rule as pretty much universal and fundamental. In other words, it is, as much other folk wisdom, pretty much time-proven meme.

Proven to be a licence to be annoying to other people.
The inverse is NOT the same....it is passive "do not treat"

ie mind your own business and I'll mind mine.

••

Perhaps "your rights stop at my nose" works universally.

tuco wrote:

LIFE wrote:So...

Golden

"Treat others as you would like to be treated."

What if I derive pleasure from pain?

So? What if others derive pleasure from pain? You test it and if it does not work, then you are out of luck so to say.

LIFE wrote:
Silver

"Do not treat others in ways you would not like to be treated".

What if Charles Manson was responsible for the death of my family and suddenly stood in front of me?

So? Again, how would you like to be treated if you were responsible for deaths? Though in the situation you describe I'd doubt you do much thinking or care about whats moral and whatnot. But maybe not, maybe you are one of those who do not let emotions to cloud their judgment I dunno.

Is there any ethical code that is practicable at the most fundamental level?

No offense but asking such question is reinventing the wheel. People ask these questions since the beginning of their time, and so far they came up with the Golden rule as pretty much universal and fundamental. In other words, it is, as much other folk wisdom, pretty much time-proven meme.

You can only know (for sure) what you feel, what you like, what you want etc etc, or at least think you know, so what else to base your behavior on? On a doctrine about mythical "better" world, or imaginary "good"? Sure, if you would like to be treated by others acting on their own doctrines

It may be very common amongst humans but that doesn't make it universal or fundamental, and it definitely doesn't make it (neccesarily) accurate.