Panderos wrote:
Bit beyond me really. Would the takeaway for the thread be that particles are really interacting even before any measurement is made upon them? Then what was with J-A-K's statement about the moon not being there when you don't look?

SpeedOfSound wrote:A cousin who I had not thought about in 15 years

VazScep wrote:Assuming you're serious:

SpeedOfSound wrote:A cousin who I had not thought about in 15 years

Or had thought about but had subsequently forgotten that you'd thought about, because there were no spooky coincidences to consolidate the memory.

SpeedOfSound wrote:Sure all possible. But that make no difference to what I just said.

VazScep wrote:

SpeedOfSound wrote:Sure all possible. But that make no difference to what I just said.

It makes a difference is as much as we get people like UndercoverElephant starting threads about such coincidences and in as much as you can counter this sort of woo by pointing to cognitive biases that lead there.

twistor59 wrote:However, charge is not the best example for talking about fundamental quantum measurement issues, because it's fixed once and for all - an electron can't evolve into a state with different charge (superselection).

twistor59 wrote:To measure charge, you'd need some apparatus more complex than another microscopic particle (think Milikan's oil drop expt).

ElDiablo wrote:Evolving.
Thanks for your posts. I'm learning a lot.

kennyc wrote:as was explained earlier there is no actual collapse, the particle potentially keeps moving, continuing to embody its wave function. The measurement is like a freeze-frame from an ongoing movie.

campermon wrote:...hmmmmm....

The wave function of a particle tells us about the probability of finding a particle at a particular point in space. So, the y axis is a measure of how likely we can 'observe' the particle at some co-ordinate x.

Until we make that measurement, or the system is forced to be measured (by some non-conscious observer), the only certainty we have is, is that the particle is most probably to be found 'here'.

kennyc wrote:Yes, read Evolving's posts. Skip David's.

felltoearth wrote:

campermon wrote:...hmmmmm....

The wave function of a particle tells us about the probability of finding a particle at a particular point in space. So, the y axis is a measure of how likely we can 'observe' the particle at some co-ordinate x.

Until we make that measurement, or the system is forced to be measured (by some non-conscious observer), the only certainty we have is, is that the particle is most probably to be found 'here'.

Hmmm, clearly there's much for me to learn still

I think the hardest part of this in some ways is linking the terminologies. I noticed David mentioned a "resonant wave" which suggests a harmonic frequency to me though I doubt that's what he really means. Same goes for the "relaxed state".
...

felltoearth wrote:

campermon wrote:...hmmmmm....

The wave function of a particle tells us about the probability of finding a particle at a particular point in space. So, the y axis is a measure of how likely we can 'observe' the particle at some co-ordinate x.

Until we make that measurement, or the system is forced to be measured (by some non-conscious observer), the only certainty we have is, is that the particle is most probably to be found 'here'.

Hmmm, clearly there's much for me to learn still

I think the hardest part of this in some ways is linking the terminologies. I noticed David mentioned a "resonant wave" which suggests a harmonic frequency to me though I doubt that's what he really means. Same goes for the "relaxed state".
More reading required though it might help to "harmonize" some of the terms of the discussion as it seems people are tending to talk past each other here.
That said, Evolving seems to be doing a great job at explaining some of these concepts comprehensively.

campermon wrote:

felltoearth wrote:

campermon wrote:...hmmmmm....

The wave function of a particle tells us about the probability of finding a particle at a particular point in space. So, the y axis is a measure of how likely we can 'observe' the particle at some co-ordinate x.

Until we make that measurement, or the system is forced to be measured (by some non-conscious observer), the only certainty we have is, is that the particle is most probably to be found 'here'.

Hmmm, clearly there's much for me to learn still

I think the hardest part of this in some ways is linking the terminologies. I noticed David mentioned a "resonant wave" which suggests a harmonic frequency to me though I doubt that's what he really means. Same goes for the "relaxed state".
More reading required though it might help to "harmonize" some of the terms of the discussion as it seems people are tending to talk past each other here.
That said, Evolving seems to be doing a great job at explaining some of these concepts comprehensively.

I think a 'beer drinkers guide to quantum mechanics' thread might be needed!

felltoearth wrote:

campermon wrote:...hmmmmm....

The wave function of a particle tells us about the probability of finding a particle at a particular point in space. So, the y axis is a measure of how likely we can 'observe' the particle at some co-ordinate x.

Until we make that measurement, or the system is forced to be measured (by some non-conscious observer), the only certainty we have is, is that the particle is most probably to be found 'here'.

Hmmm, clearly there's much for me to learn still

I think the hardest part of this in some ways is linking the terminologies. I noticed David mentioned a "resonant wave" which suggests a harmonic frequency to me though I doubt that's what he really means. Same goes for the "relaxed state".
More reading required though it might help to "harmonize" some of the terms of the discussion as it seems people are tending to talk past each other here.
That said, Evolving seems to be doing a great job at explaining some of these concepts comprehensively.