The Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch According to pudgala2

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The Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch According to pudgala2

#1  Postby pudgala2 » Feb 09, 2016 12:47 am

The Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch is a translation of a transcription of a speech given by an illiterate laborer named Hui-neng (Chinese: 惠能; pinyin: Huìnéng, 638–713) who became the Sixth and last Zen Patriarch. Any intelligent seeker of an end to personal suffering would be well advised to study this sutra. The scholar(s) who translated this transcription into English around 1932 chose to use the then rarely used word sentient in the following way:

(all emphasis and inserts by pudgala2)
Our Mind-essence is potential of an infinite number of sentient beings [beliefs, opinions, attitudes, moods, etc.]. We vow to bring them all unto deliverance [disown them].

<snip>

We have now vowed to deliver [give up, let go of] an infinite number of sentient beings; but what does that mean? It does not mean that I, Hui-neng is going to deliver them. And who are these sentient beings, potential within our minds? They are the delusive mind, the deceitful mind, the evil mind, and such like—all these are sentient beings. Each of them has to be delivered [dispelled] by oneself by means of his own Essence of Mind; only by his own deliverance, is it genuine.

Now, what does it mean, "delivering oneself by one's own Essence of Mind?' It means the deliverance of the ignorant, delusive, and the vexatious beings that spring up within our own mind, by means of Right Views [Four Noble Truths of Suffering]. With the aid of Right Views and Prajna [perspicacity], the [belief] barriers thrown up by these delusive and ignorant beings may be broken down; so that each of us will be in a position to deliver himself by his own efforts. The false will be delivered by truthfulness; the delusive by enlightenment; the ignorant by wisdom; and the malevolent by benevolence; such is genuine deliverance.


At this point in time Zen split into two schools the Sudden School of Hui-neng for the quick-witted and the more popular Gradual School for the slower or dim-witted.

The Four Great Vows were translated into English and are recited as a regular part of the Zen liturgy at almost all places of practice. I only want to point out the word save in the first vow.

Sentient beings are numberless; I vow to save them all.
Desires are inexhaustible; I vow to put an end to them.
The Dharmas are boundless; I vow to master them.
The Buddha’s Way is unsurpassable; I vow to attain it.


Given the detailed understanding of what sentient beings are in the Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch and their intentional cessation by one's own Essence of Mind the word save is misleading to say the least. How sentient beings are saved and where they are saved to is never mentioned? Christian misunderstanding?

A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand. ~ Bertrand Russell


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1st Zen Haiku, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th Buddha, 7th Sentience
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Re: The Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch According to pudgala2

#2  Postby scott1328 » Feb 09, 2016 1:00 am

Seriously, why can't all of Pud Gala's post on the same topic be merged?
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Re: The Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch According to pudgala2

#3  Postby jamest » Feb 09, 2016 1:10 am

You're fucked pal, and rightly so. Preaching within the philosophy forum is akin to farting loudly in a library. Do it once, you'll get away with it. Ignore the no farting loudly signs pointed-out to you and then repeat yourself soon after? You'll have the same fate as your farts:

... a rapid dissipation.

Somebody open the trap door, please. If not, the windows.
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Re: The Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch According to pudgala2

#4  Postby jamest » Feb 09, 2016 1:30 am

scott1328 wrote:Seriously, why can't all of Pud Gala's post on the same topic be merged?

He has a post count of 8 and has started three threads within the philosophy forum, and all you want is for his bullshit to be merged into one thread?

Fuck me with anything you like. :nono:

This nono is taking the piss. If you want him to post his shit in another sub-forum, I might be able to live with that, but for as long as he posts this preaching crap in the philosophy forum, I'll be here with my best axe and platter.
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Re: The Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch According to pudgala2

#5  Postby Oldskeptic » Feb 09, 2016 1:47 am

Jamest's pissed off about someone preaching weird shit in the philosophy sub-forum! Now that's funny.
There is nothing so absurd that some philosopher will not say it - Cicero.

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Re: The Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch According to pudgala2

#6  Postby ScholasticSpastic » Feb 09, 2016 1:49 am

:lol:
"You have to be a real asshole to quote yourself."
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Re: The Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch According to pudgala2

#7  Postby jamest » Feb 09, 2016 1:57 am

You guys should be on the stage. I hadn't realised you were so funny. Twats!
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Re: The Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch According to pudgala2

#8  Postby ScholasticSpastic » Feb 09, 2016 2:20 am

scott1328 wrote:Seriously, why can't all of Pud Gala's post on the same topic be merged?

I second :this:
"You have to be a real asshole to quote yourself."
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Re: The Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch According to pudgala2

#9  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Feb 09, 2016 5:24 am

scott1328 wrote:Seriously, why can't all of Pud Gala's post on the same topic be merged?

Especially since he's clearly only here to proselytise and run.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: The Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch According to pudgala2

#10  Postby laklak » Feb 09, 2016 5:25 am

Best proselytizers of inane word salad I've seen in a while.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - Mark Twain
The sky is falling! The sky is falling! - Chicken Little
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Re: The Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch According to pudgala2

#11  Postby Fallible » Feb 09, 2016 9:11 am

Pudgala, there's these things called blogs...
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
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Re: The Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch According to pudgala2

#12  Postby Spinozasgalt » Feb 09, 2016 9:16 am

No, there aren't!
When the straight and narrow gets a little too straight, roll up the joint.
Or don't. Just follow your arrow wherever it points.

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Re: The Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch According to pudgala2

#13  Postby Evolving » Feb 09, 2016 9:33 am

scott1328 wrote:Seriously, why can't all of Pud Gala's post on the same topic be merged?


"Pudsy's musings on sentience".
How extremely stupid not to have thought of that - T.H. Huxley
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Re: The Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch According to pudgala2

#14  Postby Oldskeptic » Feb 09, 2016 9:36 am

jamest wrote:You guys should be on the stage. I hadn't realised you were so funny. Twats!


The dooling !TWATS! from oooootah. Has a nice ring to it, I think. If we need a cunt to round out the act we'll know where to look.
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Re: The Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch According to pudgala2

#15  Postby jamest » Feb 09, 2016 10:19 am

Oldskeptic wrote:
jamest wrote:You guys should be on the stage. I hadn't realised you were so funny. Twats!


The dooling !TWATS! from oooootah. Has a nice ring to it, I think. If we need a cunt to round out the act we'll know where to look.

;)
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Re: The Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch According to pudgala2

#16  Postby Fallible » Feb 09, 2016 10:22 am

Spinozasgalt wrote:No, there aren't!


You're a fuck off!
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
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She never listened to no hater, liar,
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Re: The Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch According to pudgala2

#17  Postby LucidFlight » Feb 09, 2016 11:01 am

Fallible wrote:Pudgala, there's these things called blogs...

Spinozasgalt wrote:No, there aren't!

Actually, I believe the 8th Misogynist of Wa-Tee-Fahk makes mention of such things in his fifth haiku, paragraph seven:

Forsooth, I shall write
Upon my electronic
Internet blog site
OFFICIAL MEMBER: QUANTUM CONSTRUCTOR CONSCIOUSNESS QUALIA KOALA COLLECTIVE.
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Re: The Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch According to pudgala2

#18  Postby Alan B » Feb 09, 2016 3:15 pm

There are no 'sentient beings' within me. I am the only sentient being for myself. Other sentient beings exist for themselves as a singular entity within a unique physical body.
The, er, 'scholars' of 1932 chose the phrase 'Sentient Beings' because they were deluded by their own awe of misunderstanding.
I have NO BELIEF in the existence of a God or gods. I do not have to offer evidence nor do I have to determine absence of evidence because I do not ASSERT that a God does or does not or gods do or do not exist.
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Re: The Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch According to pudgala2

#19  Postby SafeAsMilk » Feb 09, 2016 3:25 pm

I always love when people quote others who would find what they say to be complete bullshit, as if that other person's words support what they say :lol:
"They call it the American dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it." -- George Carlin
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Re: The Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch According to pudgala2

#20  Postby Alan B » Feb 09, 2016 3:31 pm

Well, if he can spout bullshit so can I. :snooty: :lol:
I have NO BELIEF in the existence of a God or gods. I do not have to offer evidence nor do I have to determine absence of evidence because I do not ASSERT that a God does or does not or gods do or do not exist.
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