DavidMcC wrote:

CdesignProponentsist wrote:

DavidMcC wrote:

CdesignProponentsist wrote:What about the warping of space, the method being explored by the gentleman in the article? I don't believe there is any theoretical limitation to this type of FTL travel, only an energy requirement limitation.

And what do you think "warps space"?

Energy.

But I don't see how this is a theoretical barrier. Please explain.

Not quite right, CdP. It takes a black hole to warp space.

EDIT: Or do you think that light might be trapped in orbit round a powerful rocket motor?

Thommo wrote:

DavidMcC wrote:

Thommo wrote:

DavidMcC wrote:
They may not explicitly state it, but the implication is clear Even then...

No David, it isn't. You're making stuff up.

DavidMcC wrote:...worm-holes don't form, and they are an essential part of warp-drive "theory".

Again, this isn't the case, nor is it supported by any of the links you've provided. You're just making stuff up.

Who taught you physics? Dr Samantha Carter?

EDIT: It's the Trekkies that make stuff up, not me.

Really, can't you just stop with the knee-jerk immaturity and think about what you write for a few seconds? If you aren't making this stuff up where are you getting it from? There may well be good physical reasons for thinking that the Alcubierre metric cannot be physically realised, but that doesn't mean that it's a wormhole or that you can just pretend that the sources you link to say that it is, nor can you pretend that it involves black holes or that all wormholes involve black holes according to your links or that all black holes result in instant destruction of matter passing within their event horizons (as pointed out earlier in the case of black holes of sufficient size)...

Anyway, I repeat my question. If you aren't just making this stuff up, where does it come from? What's the justification for the claims*?

* Specifically "It takes a black hole to warp space.", "worm-holes don't form, and they are an essential part of warp-drive "theory".".

DavidMcC wrote:Thommo, all Alcubierre said is that iff there are galaxies so remote that they are receding at FTL, then we are, ipso facto, travelling at FTL wrt them, without even trying.

DavidMcC wrote:However, as I have already said, such galaxies might not even exist, and even if they do, they do not help us travel at FTL wrt anything in the local universe.
Also, I never said BHs instantaneously destroy matter, although only the supermassive ones, like Sagittarius A* can swallow someone to inside their event horizon without tearing them apart in the process. Like I said before, I would take part in a test run, PROVIDED you go first!

Thommo wrote:
Ok, now how about you answer the question?

"If you aren't just making this stuff up, where does it come from? What's the justification for the claims*?

* Specifically "It takes a black hole to warp space.", "worm-holes don't form, and they are an essential part of warp-drive "theory"."."

Thommo wrote:

DavidMcC wrote:Thommo, all Alcubierre said is that iff there are galaxies so remote that they are receding at FTL, then we are, ipso facto, travelling at FTL wrt them, without even trying.

Again, you're misrepresenting the facts enormously:-

(i) The best physical theories predict such galaxies exist, so it isn't a controversial assumption.
(ii) The galaxies don't need to exist for there to be space (and thus IFs) beyond the observable universe, making your "iff" condition incorrect.
(iii) We are discussing an Alcubierre paper about a metric describing a space warp, which says a fuck of a lot more than this one trivial point and it was this metric that we were explicitly discussing. Additionally the existence of the aforementioned galaxies has no impact on this part of the discussion.

DavidMcC wrote:However, as I have already said, such galaxies might not even exist, and even if they do, they do not help us travel at FTL wrt anything in the local universe.
Also, I never said BHs instantaneously destroy matter, although only the supermassive ones, like Sagittarius A* can swallow someone to inside their event horizon without tearing them apart in the process. Like I said before, I would take part in a test run, PROVIDED you go first!

Ok, now how about you answer the question?

"If you aren't just making this stuff up, where does it come from? What's the justification for the claims*?

* Specifically "It takes a black hole to warp space.", "worm-holes don't form, and they are an essential part of warp-drive "theory"."."

DavidMcC wrote:The concept of "warping space" may have been misunderstood by many. The fact that, for example, the earth orbits the sun does not mean that space itslf is warped into a circle, for if it was, then light itself would also be orbiting the sun

twistor59 wrote:

Thommo wrote:
Ok, now how about you answer the question?

"If you aren't just making this stuff up, where does it come from? What's the justification for the claims*?

* Specifically "It takes a black hole to warp space.", "worm-holes don't form, and they are an essential part of warp-drive "theory"."."

Everybody knows that must be true. All the scifi literature says so. It's those evil mathematicians who are trying to depict it in a different light....with their talk of "metrics", "Riemann curvature tensors" and the like....

twistor59 wrote:

Thommo wrote:
Ok, now how about you answer the question?

"If you aren't just making this stuff up, where does it come from? What's the justification for the claims*?

* Specifically "It takes a black hole to warp space.", "worm-holes don't form, and they are an essential part of warp-drive "theory"."."

Everybody knows that must be true. All the scifi literature says so. It's those evil mathematicians who are trying to depict it in a different light....with their talk of "metrics", "Riemann curvature tensors" and the like....

DavidMcC wrote:

Thommo wrote:Ok, now how about you answer the question?

"If you aren't just making this stuff up, where does it come from? What's the justification for the claims*?

* Specifically "It takes a black hole to warp space.", "worm-holes don't form, and they are an essential part of warp-drive "theory"."."

I have already answered the point, and you are just BS-ing about it[/thread]

General relativity is a theory of gravitation that was developed by Albert Einstein between 1907 and 1915. According to general relativity, the observed gravitational effect between masses results from their warping of spacetime.

DavidMcC wrote::roll:
[/thread]

lucek wrote:

DavidMcC wrote::roll:
[/thread]

I'd actualy want to point something out. You've been derailing you're own thread from the OP. You claimed this was about the "JPL's FTL project" when in fact you've not yet even talked about it just you're personal misconceptions about FTL as a concept.

So Dave doesn't want talk about this anymore. I say let him. All in favor get back on topic and talk about the bloody article this is supposed to be about.