Calilasseia wrote:Bullshit.

First, the reason many are enduring "crap jobs, low wages and benefits", is because the Panama Papers parasite rich preferred to squirrel billions out of the country to spend on mansions, bling yachts and private jets, instead of paying the taxes that would have funded proper investment in social infrastructure, including education. As for the idea that they are "happy" in their poverty, this is the sort of pernicious propaganda that we'd expect to see coming from the Iain Drunken Shit school of Tory stereotyping. If you think those people wouldn't prefer to be given a chance to earn a decent living wage without handouts, then you obviously haven't moved outside your comfortable rentier circle of golf clubs and subsidised corporate entertainment.

As for those who "brought the rest of us down a bit", the blame with that lies with Johnson and Farage, two rich, privileged wankers who were happy to peddle lies in order to further their own pursuit of unearned wealth. At least Johnson has woken up to the manner in which he's shit on his own career as well as the country, whilst dodgy Dulwich wheeler-dealer Farage, who unlike some of the people in the EU he sneered at, never had a proper job himself (please, a fucking commodities speculator?) continues to pretend in public that he's some sort of hero of the masses, whilst doubtless laughing all the way to the bank as he coins it in more commodities speculation.

What actually happened, was that entirely justifiable discontent at fake "austerity" economics (fake because the rich aren't experiencing any "austerity", unless you count having to keep your his and hers Bentleys an extra year before moving on to the shiny new model) was hijacked by the Panama Papers parasite rich, with a diversionary campaign aimed at blaming "migrants" for our woes instead of the real culprits, and sadly, it succeeded.

tuco wrote:The market would stay large, transparent, stable and attractive enough even without the UK 17%. Its the UK who would have to negotiate everything on its own. However, as mrjonno noted in the other thread, the rationality bubble popped in the UK. Its beyond any reason to think there is something to be gained from exit. If it also pops in the rest of EU, and the world, we can kick ourselves to grass

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edit: They want to send mongrels home and who will replace them? 4.7% unemployment and they cry about internal immigration. I guess you want external then, mongrels. Wtf is wrong with you?

tuco wrote:Back to reality ..

I've been reading little on the UK population growth and its clear that 50-70% of population growth in past, and future, decades, is due to migration, making the UK, along with other 3 EU countries, fastest growing country in the EU.

The effect of Brexit, assuming restriction on free movement, would then result in lower population growth(?).

Now is lower population growth desirable, from economic point of view? Especially in context of ageing population/pensions.


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Political challenges relating to an aging population: Key issues for the 2015 Parliament - https://www.parliament.uk/business/publ ... opulation/

The Impact of Migration on UK Population Growth - http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.u ... ion-growth

Britain’s Population : Can We Absorb the Increase? - https://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/11/08/br ... -increase/

fisherman wrote:

[Reveal] Spoiler: "too long"

tuco wrote:Back to reality ..

I've been reading little on the UK population growth and its clear that 50-70% of population growth in past, and future, decades, is due to migration, making the UK, along with other 3 EU countries, fastest growing country in the EU.

The effect of Brexit, assuming restriction on free movement, would then result in lower population growth(?).

Now is lower population growth desirable, from economic point of view? Especially in context of ageing population/pensions.


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Political challenges relating to an aging population: Key issues for the 2015 Parliament - https://www.parliament.uk/business/publ ... opulation/

The Impact of Migration on UK Population Growth - http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.u ... ion-growth

Britain’s Population : Can We Absorb the Increase? - https://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/11/08/br ... -increase/

A reducing rate of immigration will at some point put pressure on wages to rise, directly increasing disposable income. At the same time that would reduce the country's GDP growth rate. Depends on if you are an employer or an employee which of those is more desirable.

The Treaty of Paris (1951)[4] establishing the European Coal and Steel Community established a right to free movement for workers in these industries and the Treaty of Rome (1957)[5] provided a right for the free movement of workers within the European Economic Community.

Underlying these developments is a tension "between the image of the Community worker as a mobile unit of production, contributing to the creation of a single market and to the economic prosperity of Europe"

LONDON—U.K. Treasury chief George Osborne plans to cut the corporation tax in the U.K. to just 15% or less in an effort to lure business investment as the economy reels from Britons’ shock decision to exit the European Union.

As Naomi Klein argued in The Shock Doctrine, disaster capitalism operates by delivering massive shocks to the system and then using the ensuing period of anarchy, fear and confusion to reassemble the pieces of what it has broken into a new configuration. This is what was done in the aftermath of the financial crisis, and it is ultimately what is at stake in Brexit. The right wing of the Tory party has succeeded in throwing the UK’s affairs into complete confusion. The losses may be enormous: the preservation of the United Kingdom in its present form is far from certain. The winnings may, at first sight, seem modest: £350m a week will not be available to save the NHS; the free movement of labour will have to be conceded; and Britain will lose its place at the EU negotiating table. But the potential winnings for ruthless politicians are nevertheless enormous: the prize is the opportunity to rework an almost infinite range of detailed arrangements both inside and outside the UK, to redraw at breakneck speed the legal framework that will govern all aspects of our lives

...

the free-market thinktank the Centre for Policy Studies (CPS) revealed the plan B that has otherwise remained hidden from view. “The weakness of the Labour party and the resolution of the EU question have created a unique political opportunity to drive through a wide-ranging … revolution on a scale similar to that of the 1980s … This must include removing unnecessary regulatory burdens on businesses, such as those related to climate directives and investment fund[s].”

...

During coming months and years, the unfolding crisis will provide countless pretexts for similar emergency measure that benefit business and roll back the state. So there will be no vote in parliament, no second referendum, no fresh elections: just the most massive legislative programme in history within the current parliament, in which the Tories command an absolute majority based on 37% of the votes cast in the last general election. So much for taking back democratic control.

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mcgruff wrote:I've called Brexit a right-wing coup which isn't quite right. It's an enabling move for a right-wing coup.

zoon wrote:Without disagreeing with [Calilasseia's] view of the Panama Papers rich, I think the underlying problem is not so much tax evasion as technology and globalisation, which have led to the disappearance of whole industries across the developed world, leaving the millions of people who used to run them without worthwhile jobs. There's a piece today on the BBC website here about a hollowed-out Ohio town which was thriving forty years ago. Nobody seems to have much idea of what to do about it. I most certainly agree with your opinion of those who hijacked the discontent in the UK.