The_Piper wrote:

Agrippina wrote:

The_Piper wrote:I suddenly realize I'm not the only germophobe in the room. I'd rather kiss a forehead than shake a hand though. (frequent hand washer )

I even try to avoid hand-shaking. People don't wash their hands when they go to the loo. Physical contact with strangers is not something I enjoy. I prefer my space uninvaded.

Exactly.
They touch dog shit, dead animals, god knows what.
Sorry about the derail here. I agree that it's not homophobic just to silently cringe, when you understand that it's your problem and not the kissing people's.

Oh yes, I've owned that. Also that I don't like girls or girl-on-girl sex scenes, and tongues waving around, it's me of course. I tell people that I don't like being touched, the decent ones respect that, the jerks laugh and do it anyway to get me to respond, which is when I turn my face away so they end up kissing the air, and not getting hugged back. Or I give them a bone-crunching handshake that causes them to cringe.

I have a similar experience but I don't let it bother me. Let me apply it to a similar situation, I cringe when I see people eating celery, I don't like it and I never will. It makes me feel uncomfotable because of the curious human habit of empathising with events that we witness but I would never attempt to stop anyone eating celery and I enjoy living in a society where people are free to eat or not eat celery to their heart's desire. I have no wish to stop anyone from eating celery, even in public, as long as I am not forced to watch and I am not forced to pretend I enjoy watching, which never happens, so that's fine. My lack of enjoyment of celery is my problem and it's one I have come to terms with. I wish long life and happiness to all those that enjoy celery and count many as my closest friends and family, they all accept that celery just isn't my thing. We have many other wonderful aspects of life we can happily share.

From another persepctive; I enjoy rare meat. I delight in the bloody juices. I realise that a small but significant proportion of society that feels repelled by my meat preferences. I know that it would make many people feel nauseated to witness my carniverous predilections and if in the company of those people, I would try to take account of their sensibilities as long as my own preferences were not overly curtailed in the process. I love it, others are disgusted by the thought of it, we can still be friends as long as we can both accept each other's positions.

In short, most of us do things that would disgust other people, like eating meat, picking toe-nails, plucking erroneous hairs, etc etc. We do not need everyone to like everything we do in order for them to like us.

I suppose I could say that I'm tolerant of people who enjoy eating meat, and I'll even cook it for them, but I won't eat it myself. Because I don't make a big thing about not eating meat, people are inclined to take the trouble to make vegetarian meals when I visit them, and when we eat out, and they're inviting, they'll ask whether there's a vegetarian option for me, even though I'm happy to eat in a steakhouse.

Agrippina wrote:Yes, you're probably right. I see a bit of this with inter-race couples, and the reaction to them.

My reaction to seeing affectionate gay couples in public is the same as my reaction to seeing mixed race couples. It's not "ick". I just hear a cheer in my head saying "21st century UK kicks fucking arse!" I hope to eventually get over it.

The portrayals of homosexuals on TV is hit and miss. On this regard, Game of Thrones looks like 1960s rubbish compared to Caprica and Brooklyn Nine-Nine.

VazScep wrote:

Agrippina wrote:Yes, you're probably right. I see a bit of this with inter-race couples, and the reaction to them.

My reaction to seeing affectionate gay couples in public is the same as my reaction to seeing mixed race couples. It's not "ick". I just hear a cheer in my head saying "21st century UK kicks fucking arse!" I hope to eventually get over it.

The portrayals of homosexuals on TV is hit and miss. On this regard, Game of Thrones looks like 1960s rubbish compared to Caprica and Brooklyn Nine-Nine.

I didn't watch either of those.

And yes, I like the openness of modern times, having grown up in a time when holding hands with a boyfriend in front of your parents was a no-no.

Agrippina wrote:

VazScep wrote:

Agrippina wrote:Yes, you're probably right. I see a bit of this with inter-race couples, and the reaction to them.

My reaction to seeing affectionate gay couples in public is the same as my reaction to seeing mixed race couples. It's not "ick". I just hear a cheer in my head saying "21st century UK kicks fucking arse!" I hope to eventually get over it.

The portrayals of homosexuals on TV is hit and miss. On this regard, Game of Thrones looks like 1960s rubbish compared to Caprica and Brooklyn Nine-Nine.

I didn't watch either of those.

And yes, I like the openness of modern times, having grown up in a time when holding hands with a boyfriend in front of your parents was a no-no.

I'm thinking that perhaps openness and diversity are my qualifiers for what defines civilization.

I am a recovering homophobic (and racist, sexist, etc). I still cringe because I was taught that. Even some gay people cringe and get turned on and than get ashamed. It's a horrible feeling. I'm all for equal rights, of course but I'd still say I'm a homophobic. I'm working on it though.

I am sort of the same way. I also am awkward around gay guys. Aside from what's been discussed, I think part of it for me is I am extremely socially awkward. I don't know when a girl is expressing interest in me or just being friendly.
Knowledge of that really makes me uncomfortable around gay guys, that I might accidentally give the wrong idea or misunderstand their meaning.
the former led to me pulling a knife on somebody who followed me out of a hotel in the wee hours of the morning.

I do not like watching gay anal but I know that is not because I am homophobic as I do not watching straight anal either. As for two men kissing well that makes no difference at all to two women kissing or a man and woman kissing. The fact that I might prefer to watch the two women is completely irrelevant. I could be in the same room as two tongues and it would not matter at all but with anal I would have to leave. For even a pair of beautiful lesbian dominatrixes with malleable strap ons would not cut it although that would be more bearable if push came to shove

surreptitious57 wrote:I do not like watching gay anal but I know that is not because I am homophobic as I do not watching straight anal either. As for two men kissing well that makes no difference at all to two women kissing or a man and woman kissing. The fact that I might prefer to watch the two women is completely irrelevant. I could be in the same room as two tongues and it would not matter at all but with anal I would have to leave. For even a pair of beautiful lesbian dominatrixes with malleable strap ons would not cut it although that would be more bearable if push came to shove

Thanks for sharing.

babel wrote:

surreptitious57 wrote:I do not like watching gay anal but I know that is not because I am homophobic as I do not watching straight anal either. As for two men kissing well that makes no difference at all to two women kissing or a man and woman kissing. The fact that I might prefer to watch the two women is completely irrelevant. I could be in the same room as two tongues and it would not matter at all but with anal I would have to leave. For even a pair of beautiful lesbian dominatrixes with malleable strap ons would not cut it although that would be more bearable if push came to shove

Thanks for sharing.

Even the lie-detector would go: "I quit!!"

KeenIdiot wrote:I am sort of the same way. I also am awkward around gay guys. Aside from what's been discussed, I think part of it for me is I am extremely socially awkward. I don't know when a girl is expressing interest in me or just being friendly.
Knowledge of that really makes me uncomfortable around gay guys, that I might accidentally give the wrong idea or misunderstand their meaning.
the former led to me pulling a knife on somebody who followed me out of a hotel in the wee hours of the morning.

I think the biggest problem for straight guys dealing with gay men, is that the straight guy is afraid that the gay guy will treat the straight guy, just like the straight guy treats women. And you know what, in many cases that is exactly what happens. But, to that I say, so what? Grow a pair. Women have put up with the unwanted advances of people who do not interest them for eons. Learn something from this and don't be that guy in the future. And by the way, gay guys make the best wing men.

scott1328 wrote:

KeenIdiot wrote:I am sort of the same way. I also am awkward around gay guys. Aside from what's been discussed, I think part of it for me is I am extremely socially awkward. I don't know when a girl is expressing interest in me or just being friendly.
Knowledge of that really makes me uncomfortable around gay guys, that I might accidentally give the wrong idea or misunderstand their meaning.
the former led to me pulling a knife on somebody who followed me out of a hotel in the wee hours of the morning.

I think the biggest problem for straight guys dealing with gay men, is that the straight guy is afraid that the gay guy will treat the straight guy, just like the straight guy treats women. And you know what, in many cases that is exactly what happens. But, to that I say, so what? Grow a pair. Women have put up with the unwanted advances of people who do not interest them for eons. Learn something from this and don't be that guy in the future. And by the way, gay guys make the best wing men.

In the end, even if someone does make a pass at you, consider it a compliment. I once was approached by a guy if I was available and willing. I truthfully informed him I was not interested (being heterosexual) and he accepted that. Shouldn't be more complicated than that. Most people can take rejection fine, be they hetero or homosexual.

How do you feel when you think about two 90 year olds kissing? Or two obese people. Or your parents? Or two extremely ugly people? The reality is that if you're straight, you don't find men attractive and so seeing two men kissing will elicit the same response as seeing any couple you don't find attractive kissing. For some people it might be indifference, for others it might be a bit of discomfort, and for some it might be a full all "ewww." I don't think it makes you homophobic any more than it makes you ageist if you don't want to watch two 90 year olds necking.

Honestly, my uncomfortableness around gay guys isn't rooted in being treated the same as I treat women.
I don't mind being hit on by gay guys so much, as I'm pretty much unable to tell when someone's expressing interest in me.
I get a similar anxiety when talking to women, can't tell if they are just being friendly or expressing interest.
My girlfriend had to be obscenely obvious about her interest before I took notice.

Hence the nick?

Yup. I should get a nametag.

Adco wrote:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophobia
Homophobia encompasses a range of negative attitudes and feelings toward homosexuality or people who are identified or perceived as being lesbian, gay, .....

This could be delicate but here goes.....

Are non homosexuals predisposed to being homophobic to some degree?

This is what I experience: when I witness two gay guys kissing, like in a movie or in public, I cringe. (I have no problem watching two lesbians kissing) I have nothing against any homosexual person and have friends and family members who are gay and I accept and socialise with them without any problems. It is only when the guys smooch that I have to turn away or close my eyes because my brain tells me "I'm not enjoying what I see".

I want to discuss this so that I can learn from it. Is it me or is this a general feeling that other hetrosexuals also experience.

My uninformed guess would be that it's an involuntary response you learned from witnessing someone close reacting that way a long, long time ago. I know lots of experiments have been done on phobic reactions to things like spiders showing that their first encounters are usually experiencing someone else's trauma.

I think many years ago I would have pulled a face too, but I've just had too many gay couple friends who were so sweet together I long since got used to it.

I've lived in Asian cultures too long, though - I find any overly enthusiastic public displays of affection to be somewhat disturbing, whatever the combination of genders.

KeenIdiot wrote:
My girlfriend had to be obscenely obvious about her interest before I took notice.

That sounds like fun.

Agrippina wrote:
I don't enjoy watching women in sex scenes, and I don't enjoy female nudity, and I'm sure it's to do with my extreme heterosexuality and not lesbian-phobia. I know that in my conscious mind I'm not at all prejudiced about other people's sexual behaviour, it's none of my business, and if they're happy, I'm happy for them, but I find some things extremely off-putting, as I said a lot of mouth and especially tongue-action, but also violence. Again some people can watch violent sex scenes in movies, and enjoy them, I can't. I have to see tenderness, and preferably a man wandering around the room boasting of his manliness. Yummy, but not the women. Doesn't do it for me.

Aggie!

You watch lesbian porn?

I'm scarred... scarred I tells you!