chairman bill wrote:Here's the thing - two women engaging in sexual activity is fine, 'cos I can imagine getting involved. Two blokes kissing, I really wouldn't want to be involved, and don't want to imagine what it would be like, thanks. Same goes for parents - I've no desire to stick my tongue down my mother's throat, so imagining parents ... no thanks. There's an element of disgust about it I think, and I suspect that is the basis of it. But none of that necessarily leads to homophobia. What does IMO, is looking at two gay men, being a bit turned on by it, and then hating yourself for that, with that hate then projected outwards on to the perceived cause of the trouble. And the stronger the expressed hatred, I suspect the stronger the repressed desire & so on.

Which comes back to the idea that homophobia is merely an expression of suppressed homosexuality within the bigot. Yep.

BlackBart wrote:I can't stand rhubarb. The thought of eating rhubarb makes me cringe. However, I have no problem whatsoever with other people eating rhubarb if they enjoy it. Nor do I think they're odd or weird and I'd get very angry with anyone who treated rhubarb eaters as anything less than equal.

I have to agree with you on that. I hate rhubarb too but hell if other people love it to the extent of putting cream on it, that's their thing, and I would defend their right to eat it.

I once befriended a gay boy while I was at school. He was quite effeminate, and being picked on. What surprised me was how worried my mother was that I was gay, because I was associating with him. She's quite liberal and progressive, but obviously still a product of her time (as are we all).

I don't like watching anyone suck face in public.

Animavore wrote:I cringe when I see just about anybody smooching in public. Not sure what that makes me.

A philematophobe.

Best I could do this late in the evening.

I really think a lot is just to do with familiarity.

I was brought up in a pretty conservative household and inherited the default assumption that gay was "YUCK". Then I did a music degree and worked in a lot of situations with lots of gay people, made lots of gay friends and gradually came to see it as not yuck at all, but still flinched a bit when I saw overt male-male affection, just because it was so surprising I suppose.

Now, one of my main clients is a huge gay arts organisation and I often find myself at rehearsals and meetings surrounded by literally hundreds of gay guys showing physical affection in lots of different ways, and I've just stopped noticing. As for films and the like, I don't really feel any recoil any more and just view the scene in terms of the characters and what it is.

The word was never part of a discussion in my family. I used to hear my mother talk about a female relative who dressed and behaved like a man and how she embarrassed the family, but that never bothered me because I thought how lucky she was not to be made to wear frills and white shoes and socks.

Then in my 30s and 40s I met and became friendly with a whole lot of gay men, you tend to if you mix with the culture of amateur dramatics, and I thoroughly enjoyed their company and some of the bitchiness about them. Then one man died of AIDS and I got to learn about how bigoted people were about people who weren't of the "normal" gender. This despite my earlier exposure in nursing. I think possibly it was a more modern time, between the 60s and the 80s a lot changed in the attitude, so more people were coming out of the closet.

I've never questioned how I feel about it. I just believe in minding my own business about what other people do in the bedroom, it's just that I see so much on TV now that I question the way I respond to that exposure. This question made me own my personal bias against lesbian sex on TV, and why I don't like looking at it.

I agree, I don't think Adco is homophobic, I think it's just that he's seeing something he wouldn't do personally and owning the negative feelings he has about it.

Beatsong wrote:I really think a lot is just to do with familiarity.

I was brought up in a pretty conservative household and inherited the default assumption that gay was "YUCK". Then I did a music degree and worked in a lot of situations with lots of gay people, made lots of gay friends and gradually came to see it as not yuck at all, but still flinched a bit when I saw overt male-male affection, just because it was so surprising I suppose.

Now, one of my main clients is a huge gay arts organisation and I often find myself at rehearsals and meetings surrounded by literally hundreds of gay guys showing physical affection in lots of different ways, and I've just stopped noticing. As for films and the like, I don't really feel any recoil any more and just view the scene in terms of the characters and what it is.

Yep.

The "yuck" is just a factor of unfamiliarity. Where the bigot goes wrong is assuming that the "yuck" is the result of thing he is unfamiliar with being objectively yucky.

Agrippina wrote:I agree, I don't think Adco is homophobic, I think it's just that he's seeing something he wouldn't do personally and owning the negative feelings he has about it.

Absolutely. If he were a homophobe, he would be asking, "WTF is wrong with these faggots?" rather than, "Um, hey, is there something wrong with me?"

Adco wrote:This is what I experience: when I witness two gay guys kissing, like in a movie or in public, I cringe.

So are you okay with two straight guys kissing?

JVRaines wrote:

Adco wrote:This is what I experience: when I witness two gay guys kissing, like in a movie or in public, I cringe.

So are you okay with two straight guys kissing?

You mean like this?

Scar wrote:This cringing it probably why many become homophobes... you tend to hate what you don't know.

True, but part of being a decent human being is accepting others will do things you don't like but as long as it doesn't affect you its none of your business.

Cringing when you see homosexuality in action doesn't make you a bigot it almost certainly makes you heterosexual

Normal: That thing is different from the things I am accustomed to. Huh.

Bigot: That thing is different from the things I am accustomed to. Kill it! Kill it with fire!

JVRaines wrote:

Adco wrote:This is what I experience: when I witness two gay guys kissing, like in a movie or in public, I cringe.

So are you okay with two straight guys kissing?

Now you're just being wicked!

I cringe when anyone expects me to kiss them, rather than shake hands. I have told employers that they were sexist when they kissed female staff when congratulating them and not kissing male staff as well. If I allow someone to hug me, or to enter into my personal space, then they know they are very special.

The other day, I was introduced to a friend's daughter who spontaneously hugged and kissed me! Now that, I don't mind. I only shook his son's hand.

Adco wrote:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophobia
Homophobia encompasses a range of negative attitudes and feelings toward homosexuality or people who are identified or perceived as being lesbian, gay, .....

This could be delicate but here goes.....

Are non homosexuals predisposed to being homophobic to some degree?

This is what I experience: when I witness two gay guys kissing, like in a movie or in public, I cringe. (I have no problem watching two lesbians kissing) I have nothing against any homosexual person and have friends and family members who are gay and I accept and socialise with them without any problems. It is only when the guys smooch that I have to turn away or close my eyes because my brain tells me "I'm not enjoying what I see".

I want to discuss this so that I can learn from it. Is it me or is this a general feeling that other hetrosexuals also experience.

Same here. I started watching Torchwood, and whenever The Damn Barrowman lip-locks with a guy, I skip the frames along, like "Okay, show's over, nothing to see, that's enough of that". I even burst out laughing whenOwen had gone for a threesome with girl he was hitting on and her boyfriend who tried to antagonize him. But when I see two women, I just go .

(And I do have an unhealthy obsession with fem-slash and I even make some of my Original Characters - for certain shows/games - gay. It's on my DeviantArt page.)

I suddenly realize I'm not the only germophobe in the room. I'd rather kiss a forehead than shake a hand though. (frequent hand washer )

The_Piper wrote:I suddenly realize I'm not the only germophobe in the room. I'd rather kiss a forehead than shake a hand though. (frequent hand washer )

I even try to avoid hand-shaking. People don't wash their hands when they go to the loo. Physical contact with strangers is not something I enjoy. I prefer my space uninvaded.

Agrippina wrote:

The_Piper wrote:I suddenly realize I'm not the only germophobe in the room. I'd rather kiss a forehead than shake a hand though. (frequent hand washer )

I even try to avoid hand-shaking. People don't wash their hands when they go to the loo. Physical contact with strangers is not something I enjoy. I prefer my space uninvaded.

Exactly.
They touch dog shit, dead animals, god knows what.
Sorry about the derail here. I agree that it's not homophobic just to silently cringe, when you understand that it's your problem and not the kissing people's.