I'm not sitting on a bus seat after some naked person. I'm just not.

Spinozasgalt wrote:I'm not sitting on a bus seat after some naked person. I'm just not.

I tend to go with you on that one. It is the chief reason that I would want other people to wear clothes and why I would want to.
Also I don't want people dripping sweat into the food at a buffet, therefore please people shirts in a restaurant, please!

I assume that Spinny and Aggy will not be keen on Cap 'Agde (in France)....

Cap d'Agde has a large family-style naturist resort.
The Village Naturiste is a large fenced-off part at the north-eastern edge of Cap d'Agde, although it is accessible along the public beach from the east. It is a self-contained town (although sometimes referred to as the "Naked City"), where nudity is legal and common in the whole resort, including its restaurants and shops, day or night. In the evening, when it gets colder, more people are dressed, sometimes in revealing clothes.

(From Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cap_d%27Agde

Agrippina wrote:Old women with grown up families, who are no longer able to have babies, what do you think they mean?

Does not stop them having sex though.

Scot Dutchy wrote:

Agrippina wrote:Old women with grown up families, who are no longer able to have babies, what do you think they mean?

Does not stop them having sex though.

Which is the point Agrippina is trying to convey.

It doesn't stop them, but when the husbands' interest flags, as it were, they're happy because they didn't think it was all that great to start with anyway.

On the nude village thing, sorry I know people like walking around without clobber on, and I accept that when they're on holiday here in the heat, they feel the need to take their shirts off to display their big bellies, I get that. It's the sweat that drips off the big bellies into the buffet that gets me. What I also don't understand is if the men can walk around with their bellies and man-boobs on display, why can't the women?

How 'bout this guy would you like him sweating all over your dining table:

There are plenty of women like that who go topless on the beaches here and totally naked on the nudist beaches.

I love being naked. Total freedom.

It's not the beaches that bother me, it's the dripping of sweat. I know I've seen it!
We went to a pretty expensive self-service buffet type Sunday lunch restaurant once in the middle of summer and only once. I stood in line getting my food, and I actually saw a guy with a big belly hanging over the meat while he dished up his food, and sweat was dripping off his gut onto the meat in the platter, a little off-putting.

Also it's the idea of sitting on a seat that some unwashed person has sat on, complete with skid marks that I really don't fancy. Besides, people are really not that attractive without clothes. A little mystery is exciting. There's nothing to look forward to if you know what's on offer. I'm not too keen on unwrapped gifts. I like taking the wrapping off.

Agrippina wrote:It's not the beaches that bother me, it's the dripping of sweat. I know I've seen it!
We went to a pretty expensive self-service buffet type Sunday lunch restaurant once in the middle of summer and only once. I stood in line getting my food, and I actually saw a guy with a big belly hanging over the meat while he dished up his food, and sweat was dripping off his gut onto the meat in the platter, a little off-putting.

Also it's the idea of sitting on a seat that some unwashed person has sat on, complete with skid marks that I really don't fancy. Besides, people are really not that attractive without clothes. A little mystery is exciting. There's nothing to look forward to if you know what's on offer. I'm not too keen on unwrapped gifts. I like taking the wrapping off.

Always sit on a towel thats the answer.
I like unwrapped gifts you see what you are getting. No disappoitments after taking off the wrapper.

lordshipmayhem wrote:

Gallstones wrote:It's those pesky chemicals--oxytocin, endorphines, testosterone...

...dihydrogenous monoxide...

(Think, people: a hot tub is filled with this chemical!)

That shit can kill you.

There are health and safety COSHH notices about it! Very dangerous stuff! Should be banned!

And I understand it causes cancer. They have found that if you take it out of cancer cells, they die.

Scot Dutchy wrote:There are plenty of women like that who go topless on the beaches here and totally naked on the nudist beaches.

I love being naked. Total freedom.

Naked at the beach I get. I walked around a shopping centre today and thought about this thread. Do you realise how often people bend over? I don't think I could handle being winked at so often. And I don't know how to say this, but women are, you know, juicy at the best of times but what about that time of the month. String theory would be on everyones mind in a very different way.

We would all be relaxed about sex, nobody, absolutely nobody, would be interested.

I think i am changing my mind on this issue, after previous threads on the topic.

Though, i don't believe in it that sex will become something peaceful, only for enjoyment. There are lots of examples why it will remain something difficult.

Most importantly is male macho behaviour. The psychopaths and men like them, will continue to fight for their partners, and will also continue to be violent within a relationship. Only genetic engineering would solve this problem, but than we stop being true humans and could have worse side-effects compared to the problem you try to solve.

There is the problem of looks. If you are nice looking (and/or have a nice character) than you have far wider options when it comes to sexuality. The beautiful people are being stormed by loads of people who want to have them, and they can get agitated by being claimed, while ugly people find it hard to get any attention whatsoever.

Young adults are often considered as the most beautiful. People of old age that still desire to have sex, don't desire each others bodies. They prefer younger people, because they are more beautiful.

Most western countries are relatively prudish, despite the free sex movement and pornography. More open cultures do exist, like in South America or Morocco. But there, the sex isn't entirely open, due to religious morality or jealousy, sex is something secret. I liked the fights between wives and mistresses in Chili of the miners during the mine disaster there a short while ago. Many of the miners had one or more mistresses beside their wives. And they didn't talk about it with their wives. The Moroccan solution is forced mariages with lots of sex outside the house. But, than you have an official partner at home you don't really like, but this partner doesn't mind you having lots of affairs.

Mike_L wrote:I assume that Spinny and Aggy will not be keen on Cap 'Agde (in France)....

Cap d'Agde has a large family-style naturist resort.
The Village Naturiste is a large fenced-off part at the north-eastern edge of Cap d'Agde, although it is accessible along the public beach from the east. It is a self-contained town (although sometimes referred to as the "Naked City"), where nudity is legal and common in the whole resort, including its restaurants and shops, day or night. In the evening, when it gets colder, more people are dressed, sometimes in revealing clothes.

(From Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cap_d%27Agde

My parents used to be naturists, and i went to naturist campings every year from age 5 to 18. What you have there is that ugly people show all their nakedness, but teenage girls of my age nearly always wear a t-shirt. So, it isn't very sexy!

Scot Dutchy wrote:I think more women would enjoy [sex] more not having to carry and give birth to kids.

Agrippina wrote:I dunno, most of the old women I know say "thank god that's over and done with!"...

when the husbands' interest flags, as it were, they're happy because they didn't think it was all that great to start with anyway.

Can you tell that to Mr Samsa? He's convinced they're all raging nymphomanics who only pretend to be disinterested because of society's expectations.

BlueIndian wrote:Naked at the beach I get. I walked around a shopping centre today and thought about this thread. Do you realise how often people bend over? I don't think I could handle being winked at so often. And I don't know how to say this, but women are, you know, juicy at the best of times but what about that time of the month. String theory would be on everyones mind in a very different way.

Uurggghhhhh

I don't think "relaxed about sex" means there can't still be practical or aesthetic reasons why we don't impose our bodily fluids on others. As it is already, people don't like being exposed to other peoples' blood. This is probably a combination of an age-old intuitive "eww" factor and a more conscious, rational desire not to get hepatitis or AIDS. The point is that neither of these factors have anything to do with blood being sexual. So there's no reason why we shouldn't avoid menstrual blood just like any other kind, and cover up as necessary for reasons other than sex.

Same goes for Aggy's highly understandable preference for not having other peoples' sweat in her lunch.

My sister was watching a presentation at a Star Trek convention a year or two ago and had the pleasure of sitting behind a particularly obese gentleman who was sweating profusely. She was in her shorts and a t-shirt and sandals due to the heat. His shirt was pasted to his back with sweat. His neck was dripping sweat which had soaked his ponytail. Then the sweat from his ponytail began dripping on my sister's foot.

I can only imagine how much worse this could have been if it were a nude Star Trek convention.

@Beatsong. I'm sorry, I just couldn't resist the really ugly imagery.

Beatsong wrote:

Scot Dutchy wrote:I think more women would enjoy [sex] more not having to carry and give birth to kids.

Agrippina wrote:I dunno, most of the old women I know say "thank god that's over and done with!"...

when the husbands' interest flags, as it were, they're happy because they didn't think it was all that great to start with anyway.

Can you tell that to Mr Samsa? He's convinced they're all raging nymphomanics who only pretend to be disinterested because of society's expectations.

Not a very accurate representation of my views, but I assume the exaggeration is there for comedic effect. Just in case anyone thinks I actually believe that, I'll clarify my position: I'm not convinced that there are any innate differences between the sex drives of men and women, and given the differing effects of societal views on behavior (as Beatsong pointed out in another thread, woman in NZ have far more sexual partners than men) it's possible that at least some of the observed differences in men and women are accountable by these societal pressures.

The anecdotal report of one person who was growing up in not only a repressive generation, but also a repressive country, does not affect my skepticism over the classical conception of men being "horn dogs" and women being "innocent virgins", and of course outliers will always exist.

Beatsong wrote:

BlueIndian wrote:Naked at the beach I get. I walked around a shopping centre today and thought about this thread. Do you realise how often people bend over? I don't think I could handle being winked at so often. And I don't know how to say this, but women are, you know, juicy at the best of times but what about that time of the month. String theory would be on everyones mind in a very different way.

Uurggghhhhh

I don't think "relaxed about sex" means there can't still be practical or aesthetic reasons why we don't impose our bodily fluids on others. As it is already, people don't like being exposed to other peoples' blood. This is probably a combination of an age-old intuitive "eww" factor and a more conscious, rational desire not to get hepatitis or AIDS. The point is that neither of these factors have anything to do with blood being sexual. So there's no reason why we shouldn't avoid menstrual blood just like any other kind, and cover up as necessary for reasons other than sex.

Same goes for Aggy's highly understandable preference for not having other peoples' sweat in her lunch.

And BlueIndian's story about the sweaty ponytail makes the point.
I think that clothes serve a greater purpose than modesty. They also serve both a cooling and heating function.
It's a bit of a bugger keeping warm in winter when you're not wearing clothes, you can't exactly take your duvet with you everywhere. And then there'd be a laundry problem. But it's not only sweat, it's also dead skin cells that drop off you all the time, and body hair that falls out all day. I don't want to share the sheddings of other people everywhere I go, at least with clothes on, they go into the clothes.

Then to reply to Mr S's

The anecdotal report of one person who was growing up in not only a repressive generation, but also a repressive country, does not affect my skepticism over the classical conception of men being "horn dogs" and women being "innocent virgins", and of course outliers will always exist.

Of course for people who are not actually old themselves and who don't know what it feels like to be old and to live with your life and the enjoyment of it slipping further and further towards the inevitable all the time, it's easy to call their observation of their society "a conception." And yes, you don't have to tell me that "anecdotes are not data."

I have to point out my qualification for being able to comment. I did all the required reading for my sociology (minor) course at university, included in which was the sociology of old age, including sexual behaviour in old age, and i"m sitting in my comfy recliner now, and am too lazy to go searching through reading material, besides I have to clean up for people coming to view my house right now. Also I have a degree in psychology including social psychology which also required learning the psychology of old age, so my report of my observation is not merely "anecdotal" in context, although it might be in content.

Yes, my generation was a little repressed, and yes, my country's culture was a repressive one, but you forget we are the people who lived through the "sexual revolution." We pretended that that we were "innocent virgins" because it was expected of us but in fact we were experimenting with the freedom that the pill gave us but we also let our parents think that we weren't. So maybe repression was expected of us, but I know from my own experience, and the reports of friends, and family members, and even more so now that people speak about it, very few of my contemporaries were really "repressed". There is more to it than merely a lack of interest in sex itself. It has to do with everything else, and it cuts both ways:

This is my observation, remembering that I am a little qualified to make these observations.

1. Old people get stuck in their ways. Old men dress in tight short shorts with their shirts tucked in over bulging bellies, or not bulging but still tucked into polyester shorts, or when they wear long trousers, ones that they bought 20+ more years ago, and they wear fuddy-duddy shoes and even worse, grey ones to match their grey suits. And their wives wear twee little flowery polyester dresses that don't need ironing, that is when they're not dressed in bowling gear, also polyester short shorts and skirts. They won't update, hair styles, clothes, food ideas, music, tv shows etc. and they moan about the "good old days." These are the same people who were the first to take the pill and to, as women, move from being housewives to employees.
The women who complain the most are the ones who didn't go out to work, and who didn't drive and who didn't learn anything beyond what they had to know for their jobs before the stopped working to have children. Dressing plays an important part in your sexual attractiveness. Slicked down 1960s hair, a comb-over, tight shirts and tight shorts, and grey shoes, busy eyebrows and nose hair, all do not add to a man's sexual attractiveness. Neither do curlers in bed, especially when they emerge to reveal tightly curled hair in a style that was fashionable 30 years ago. Nor do knee-highs and clumpy shoes and make-up that people wore in the 1980s. Men can look at Richard Branson to see what a sexy old man looks like.

2. There's a lack of effort to be attractive sexually apart from the physical one. The men who are reported by their wives to be interested, if they are more interested in modern ideas, ie. use computers for more than just email, also talk positively about the future and don't pine about the "good old days" and their wives go to gym, do water aerobics and not only play bowls and bridge. The ones who don't make the effort, do pine about the past when "people knew their place" and "children were obedient" and they can't see that being stuck in the societal and political past makes them unattractive as conversation partners, and if conversation is boring, then sex is probably equally boring.

3. Health issues and a lack of knowledge or reticence to try new things. For instance some health problems can prevent someone from being able to lie on their back. If the missionary position is all you've ever used, it will make your interest in sex flag. From the man's point of view, if diabetes or urinary problems have caused the interest to flag (pun not intended) then there are other things they can do but simply won't because of repression -- yes Mr S is right, repression does come into play here, and their wives being equally repressed simply won't think of buying a vibrator to do what he can't even if he is the one holding the vibrator. So because she can't breathe and he can't get it up, they lose interest in everything related to sex.
Or if she is just not interested, her lack of interest could be because he isn't interesting but merely horny. Most people aren't interested in being used, and often these women complain that they are just being used. And I've actually had older women say that they've never had an orgasm, and that sex was never pleasurable for them. This isn't their fault or their repression but merely the selfishness of a man who as we just to say "jumps on, pumps a bit, jumps off and goes to sleep." How does an older woman, seeing what is available to her on TV shows tell a man that there's more to it when he says that those are "sluts on TV" and "good women aren't supposed to enjoy it."

And the idea of trying new things extends to everything else, the way they dress what they eat, how they decorate their homes. The more sexually active people tend to use new technology, travel to new places, change their hair and clothing styles, have more modern furnishing styles. People who go to the same resort they've been to for 40 years, still have their original living room furniture, still use top sheets and blankets on their beds rather than comforters and duvets, still have floral carpets in their homes and frilly net curtains, it seems to me, tend to have rigid, old ideas about sex as well. "Kids know far too much these days."

Then there's the health issue for men. I can't stress this enough, how important it is to your sex life to get regular check ups with a urologist. Often old men begin to notice problems with not being able to empty their bladders properly or going to the loo too often. Diabetes is not an old man's disease, and abuse of alcohol can cause diabetes, and diabetes can cause impotence. If the nerves die from urinary problems, so will the ability to perform die. Blue pills don't work if the nerves don't react, and if the blood flow is cut off by urinary problems.

I must run now, I'll come back to this again later.