satis5d wrote:1. If you've paid attention to the key points I've made from the beginning of this thread, my point, and the point of my book is that
you don't need to believe in
my God or any god. Even if you go to your grave denying His existence, the God I know will rescue you from Hell and set you up for eternity in conditions far better than you can imagine on this earth after it has been refurbished. I say this based on years of study of the same Bible that many of you here criticize.
Engage that diamond sharp intellect of yours for a moment longer, satis5d. Most of us here do not hold the bible in high regard. We do not accept that it is the word of God, that it tells us anything useful about life, the universe and everything. We do not live our lives according to what is says. Now having absorbed that, can you please tell me what the
flip* you think it's going to mean to any of us here that you have studied in great depth this book that practically no one here accepts plays any useful role in life? You may just as well come here and proudly proclaim that Moon Face and Silky are waiting for us on our next walk, within the trunk of the Magic Faraway Tree because you have dedicated your life to studying the complete works of Enid Blyton and this is what it tells you.
2. Have I criticized anyone's humility? Or did I point out that up to that point I hadn't noticed much of it.
Given what you go on to say about your observations of the feelings of people here about death and Hell, I would not rely upon your opinion of the humility of people here do or do not display to inform me. It seems to me from observing
you over the past couple of days that you have a tendency to treat people as though they came down in the last shower and have never experienced the kind of thoughts you are sharing with us, that you think you are in a position of authority where the Bible is concerned. You do not, as you claim, appear to be in learning mode, but in preaching mode. Yet many of the people here have spent years in Bible study also, many of us (not me, I've never been a theist) were raised with religion. The vast majority of us have seen exactly the type of argumentation and fallacious reasoning that you display. Time and time again, over and over and over and over, it is the same basic content, wrapped in a slightly different coloured wrapping paper.
3. I have been forced to change many parts of my worldview over the years in my search for truth. I value scientific study a great deal. What I believe now has been hard fought, for the most part, and I will not easily be moved from my position, as I expect neither will any of you. I continue to share my beliefs with you because I've not heard that anyone else here has the same peace about death and Hell that I have.
Well then let me help you out. I don't fear death at all. I don't know if you've ever been near death, but I have. I have been in a situation where my body began to shut down and my vision closed off. I didn't feel any fear, in fact a strange calm came over me. I was aware of a vague feeling of sadness that it was ending now with so much that I still had to do, but there was no fear. Now do you think that as I sit here fine and dandy today I am going to feel more scared of death than I was when I did in fact expect it at any moment, or less? What do you reckon, satis5d? As for Hell, please rest assured that I am at complete peace with that also, and that this peace emanates from the fact that I do not believe such a place to exist.
4. What do I stand to gain by manipulating anyone here? I'm not trying to convert you. At best I've kicked the anthill. The ants will scurry around wildly for a little bit, but soon they will go back to their daily business with their anthill fully rebuilt. I'm here to learn. I'm learning mostly about how you feel about God, the Bible and religion. I'm also open to tweaking my worldview if and when someone presents something worth adding.
You don't come across as someone who is here to learn.
It seems to me that this group is rife with fear
I don't really know why it seems to you that this group is rife with fear when only one person has expressed any fear at all. Perhaps you came here with the idea that we're all scared, I don't know. Personally, I've seen virtually nothing which would back up this claim of yours.
and that you soothe each other with talk of how this evil God of the Bible doesn't exist, therefore Hell must not exist.
And I think you're projecting. I think you fear Hell plenty and are attempting to make yourself feel better by concocting a narrative whereby Hell is nothing to be scared of because it is presided over by an omnibenevolent god who will see you right in the end.
I do not say that God does not exist, and nor do many atheists here. We simply say that we have seen nothing to suggest that it does. The same with Hell. That's really all there is to it. I don't believe Thor exists either, or Shiva. I don't believe Hades exists, or indeed the Norse Hel. Do you? If not, then I can only conclude that you are full of fear and soothe yourself with talk of how these gods do not exist, therefore Hades and Hel must also not exist. Does that sound like a reasonable assessment of your position? Well then now you know how your assessment of the people here sounds.
And yet your fear of Hell is not satisfied.
Not the first clue what this even means, sorry.
(That's my assessment based on two days of observation. I'm not judging anyone in particular or saying that there's anything wrong with what you're doing. In fact, it's great that you have each other for support.)
You're making things up, which is just as bad. The most you can say is that one person admits to having a fear of hell when he stops taking his anti-psychotic drugs. That's all you have to go on if you want to deal in facts. Perhaps we can see how you have belief in God by looking at the readiness with which in this matter of fear of God and Hell you fill in the gaps in your knowledge with what you want to be true.
The fact that I'm here and that despite all of your brilliant scientific arguments that God does not exist I am unmoved from my position of loving the God you deny makes some of you uncomfortable.
I've certainly made no argument that God does not exist, and indeed most of the action you will see in this area is theists coming here making positive claims of God's existence, followed by sceptics asking them to show their workings out. Alas they never can, and so the sceptics simply have been presented with no reason to accept that God is real. Again, you may find that it avails you here to deal with what you have actually seen people say, and not what you have decided beforehand you will see and then try to push as an 'observation'.
Great! It's good to be uncomfortable sometimes. It exposes the shallowness of our beliefs. I've been there myself lots of times. I gave up a good-paying job at a church because I became so uncomfortable with the fact that I could see that corporate religion was part of the problem, not the solution. I already agree with a lot of things that you guys say, and some of you seem very intelligent.
So here is my big manipulation speech:
Live the way that you see fit and in the end the God that you deny will pleasantly surprise you. 
So again, exactly what is it that you think you have to say with your book? It seems to me that we can all carry on as we have been, not believing in God and not finding any reason to accept the arguments as to why we should, and still when we die we will be pleasantly surprised. Win-win. The only thing that would appear to be different if you come and inform us of this is that you will have put yourself forward as the one to tell us first. Self-aggrandizement, in other words. And yet you claim to be here to learn, so self-aggrandizement under the guise of learning.
However, if you're unhappy with the way your life is going because of your fear of death and Hell,
I don't have a fear of death or Hell.
I know what I've learned and experienced first-hand and I am certain that life can lived without fear of death and Hell because I'm living proof of it.
I know that life can be lived without fear of death or Hell because
I am living proof of it. I have no need of you in that regard.
Not because I'm anything special, that's just my experience. It seems to me that offering those who live in fear
So far there's ONE PERSON here who self-disclosed living in fear. A better use of your time might be to make an arrangement with him to talk in private. Why don't you do that?
solution would be a loving thing to do (provided that I do it for free and for no other personal benefit)
Hey, satis5d, just so you know - there are forms of personal benefit other than money. One of those is thinking or knowing that one is 'doing good', or doing 'the loving thing'. This is what you think you're doing, and not only that, you want us all to know how much 'good' you're doing free of charge, so you make sure we know it by specifically pointing it out. You
are doing this for personal benefit. I can't judge you for that, because we all do it. You simply need to be aware that you're not behaving any differently, and when you say you gain no personal benefit, that's not the truth.
since it seems that not many people around here have a solution other than to convince yourselves that God doesn't exist.
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You see, this is the kind of thing that shows you're not here to learn. If you were, you would ask us what our views are and accept our answers. What
you are doing is telling us what you think and expect us to be doing as though that's what we had told you, because of a fear you expect us to have. Just so we are clear - you do not get to come here and tell
us what we fear or that we are trying to convince ourselves of anything. You are not me, and you are not even a fraction as insightful or learned about me as you imagine yourself to be.
* Just trying not to invoke rule 3 for the moment. This might change in time.
by 
