rezling wrote:To be honest, I always thought the 'Jesus Camps' were lots of fun. It's only seeing it from this side that it seems crazy.

I was the same. With the exception of one certain one. Camp Eagle.
I won't go into it unless someone wants the details, but when I realized I was an atheist I sat down and went through the steps of brainwashing. They did it all.

Took me more than three years to shake it off.

Just watch this never made me cry on the inside. It made me jaw drop - I was shocked about the children crying. What kind of messed up teaching centre is this!

Has anyone seen this film? I watched it with the free-thinking group at the university on Monday. It just... it really seemed like child abuse. I'm Christian and all, but making kids feel guilty about their "sins" just seems wrong.

I was especially bothered about the abortion bit. I'm against it, but I think it's irresponsible and abusive to stress out a little kid about the issue. I mean, those kids didn't even understand what abortion was, and they were just being exploited for political motives.

I really think it's wrong to manipulate kids like the film depicted. Seems like emotional abuse.

I'm still collecting my thoughts on Jesus Camp. It was difficult for me to watch, and I was wondering what all your reactions were.

I know the group that was filmed was just nutty, but it made me feel, if I have kids, I wouldn't want them to attend a Christian school. Or at least, not without my supervision (which would be impractical anyway).

I'd say the group was far more than "just nutty", bat-shit insane at least.

I'd have to agree with that.

I saw the film the year it came me out, 2006, and IIRC, there was a scene where a mother was homeschooling her kids and told them climate change was a lie (as if she'd know) and something about the lie was being perpetrated by those who hated America (atheist scientists, no doubt). I was just about as disturbed by the homeschooling as I was with the camp scenes.

I'm sure I saw this in the UK a couple of years ago, I agree with you, very disturbing

I also think it was verging on child abuse, some of the kids were visibly frightened and upset. Can't remember much detail but it stuck in my mind as quite horrendous to watch

i watched bits and pieces and decided against watching it.

it would just make me angry

Ugh.. it was terrible. I can't see any difference to the Taliban and their 'training' methods actually.... complete and utter brainwashing

One slightly hopeful bit of news though....

In November 2006, Fischer announced that she would be shutting down the camp due to negative reaction towards her in the film. According to Fischer's website, the owners of the property used for the camp shown in the film were concerned about vandalism to the premises following the film's release and thus will not allow it to be used for any future camps. Fischer has said that the camp will be indefinitely postponed until other suitable premises can be found, but it will be back.

That's 2006 .... nothing since I guess....

ModusPonens wrote:Has anyone seen this film? I watched it with the free-thinking group at the university on Monday. It just... it really seemed like child abuse. I'm Christian and all, but making kids feel guilty about their "sins" just seems wrong.

I was especially bothered about the abortion bit. I'm against it, but I think it's irresponsible and abusive to stress out a little kid about the issue. I mean, those kids didn't even understand what abortion was, and they were just being exploited for political motives.

I really think it's wrong to manipulate kids like the film depicted. Seems like emotional abuse.

I'm still collecting my thoughts on Jesus Camp. It was difficult for me to watch, and I was wondering what all your reactions were.

I know the group that was filmed was just nutty, but it made me feel, if I have kids, I wouldn't want them to attend a Christian school. Or at least, not without my supervision (which would be impractical anyway).

But I have to say...... why aren't christians speaking out to *other christians* about this kind of shit? Why on atheist forums... what about telling fellow believers that this STINKS and you guys won't stand for it?

That would really matter.

heyjude wrote:But I have to say...... why aren't christians speaking out to *other christians* about this kind of shit? Why on atheist forums... what about telling fellow believers that this STINKS and you guys won't stand for it?

That would really matter.

Of course I'm talking to other Christians about it. I don't know Why you're assuming otherwise. I don't see why I can't bring it up here, too.

I'm Christian and all, but making kids feel guilty about their "sins" just seems wrong.

So I suppose you don't believe in Original Sin?

I made the mistake of watching it while I was drinking. Needless to say, I took it even worse than I normally would.

ModusPonens wrote:

heyjude wrote:But I have to say...... why aren't christians speaking out to *other christians* about this kind of shit? Why on atheist forums... what about telling fellow believers that this STINKS and you guys won't stand for it?

That would really matter.

Of course I'm talking to other Christians about it. I don't know Why you're assuming otherwise. I don't see why I can't bring it up here, too.

Sorry... I wasn't particularly aiming at you. I just didn't hear christians showing any outrage when this movie came out. I remember so much talk about it... but not from people who should or would have (i.e. the community who was being painted pretty badly by this lot). I'm glad you're talking to your friends about it... please do!

You understand where I'm coming from right? It's rather like.... it would be nice to hear a vocal muslim community speaking out against islamic terrorism.

It is a great movie, shows the bat-shit-craziness pretty well. Not mentioned yet I don't think is the glossolalia (speaking in tongues-or blithering utter nonsense to the sane), and the anti-Harry Potter shit, was very funny there were a couple of rogue kids who had seen it and thought it was great, most of the rest of the little freaks looked at them a little weird.

This topic has come up a number of times in the past few months, but there is one thing I keep wondering.

Why, exactly, do people think the tongues thing is strange? Sure it sounds strange, but so does any foreign language. So really, what's the problem?

Well, that's just not sane behavior. They weren't speaking a foreign language. They were just making noises after lots of emotional abuse. At least, that's how I saw it.

Also: sorry if this is a repeat thread. I did a few searches before making a new thread but I didn't see any on the same topic. Sorry again if I've duplicated something.

MondusPonens wrote:Well, that's just not sane behavior. They weren't speaking a foreign language. They were just making noises after lots of emotional abuse. At least, that's how I saw it.

Sure, that's what it looks like. But have you ever done it yourself?

Essentially, yes, it's just "making noises" but that's not what it feels like. In my experience, there is more to it than that.

rezling wrote:

MondusPonens wrote:Well, that's just not sane behavior. They weren't speaking a foreign language. They were just making noises after lots of emotional abuse. At least, that's how I saw it.

Sure, that's what it looks like. But have you ever done it yourself?

Essentially, yes, it's just "making noises" but that's not what it feels like. In my experience, there is more to it than that.

Of course I don't have a reference, I think it was here somewhere, but linguists, and cunning ones at that, have studied the phenomenon and can find no true patterns as you would find in any real language.