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questioner121 wrote:Rumraket wrote:What's the point of this? What is the designer trying to achieve? Why is he trying to make it look like evolution happened?
I don't know why the designer is did this or what he's trying to achieve. It's you who is inferring evolution, creationists don't infer evolution and we're both looking at the same data.
questioner121 wrote:It's you who has built this hierarchy. This would have no problem with fitting in a common design hierarchy.
You've already made up your mind that common ancestry is true which is why everything fits.
You're already aware that there things which don't fit in with the phylogenetic tree
but you pass that off as normal "noise" expected in statistical analysis. That's just a cop out, you need to address those points before claiming common ancestry as a truth.
But I suppose this is typical of non believers.
questioner121 wrote:Rumraket wrote:It doesn't matter that it's not under our control, that still does not explain why your designer is intentionally creating a nest hierarchical arrangement of broken vitamin-C genes with mutations in them. Why does your designer go out of his way to make it look like evolution happened?
It's you who has built this hierarchy. This would have no problem with fitting in a common design hierarchy.
Shrunk wrote: Yet look at how complex that diagram already is.
Shrunk wrote:Why do I infer design? If you look at each of the animals they have similar traits. Chimps have hands, feet, similar eyes, similar shape, etc. so for me it's not surprising the DNA is similar. The DNA is information which if you manipulate will result in predictable outcomes. The whole world is created in such a way where we can manipulate things and see pretty predictable results. If it weren't for that life would be a headache and it would difficult. Just because different animals have the same traits doesn't mean the design has to be exactly the same, it just has to fulfil it's purpose. For example if you look at all the car manufacturers who make cars. There a variety of models from different manufacturers but each component is not exactly the same design but it does fulful the same purpose to a degree.
So do car designers deliberately put broken carburetors that serve no function in their designs?
questioner121 wrote:Rumraket wrote:
Why would the designer put a broken vitamin-C gene into individual organisms and then subsequently mutate it, particularly such that a phylogenetic inferences produces a hierarchical arrangement congruent with the one inferred from comparative anatomy?
Why is your designer trying to make it look like evolution happened, and since that is what it looks like, why do you even infer design at all?
How do you know it's broken? Have you tried fixing and seeing if it works?
It looks like evolution to you because of the way you are analysing it and thinking about it. You're not being objective and unbiased, you're filling the gaps with biased assumptions.
.Why do I infer design? If you look at each of the animals they have similar traits. Chimps have hands, feet, similar eyes, similar shape, etc. so for me it's not surprising the DNA is similar
ADParker wrote:
And no I would not expect any human to "reacquire" it because that is a lot of quite specific mutations that would have to take place. Either all at once which would be just insanely improbable, or mutation after mutation, every one for no good reason being maintained.
questioner121 wrote:I thought evolution was all about tiny gradual changes across successive generations?
Rumraket wrote:You're welcome to tell me about something that doesn't fit.
Shrunk wrote:
What makes you think it doesn't fit?
http://basketofpuppies-billy.blogspot.c ... onist.html
questioner121 wrote:Rumraket wrote:
Why would the designer put a broken vitamin-C gene into individual organisms and then subsequently mutate it, particularly such that a phylogenetic inferences produces a hierarchical arrangement congruent with the one inferred from comparative anatomy?
Why is your designer trying to make it look like evolution happened, and since that is what it looks like, why do you even infer design at all?
How do you know it's broken? Have you tried fixing and seeing if it works?
questioner121 wrote:
Why nothing about electroreception? Why don't other land mammals have it?
questioner121 wrote:Shrunk wrote:
What makes you think it doesn't fit?
http://basketofpuppies-billy.blogspot.c ... onist.html
"egg laying “reptiles” becoming egg laying mammals, which become live birth giving mammals." Where is the evidence of this or is this an assumption?
Why nothing about electroreception? Why don't other land mammals have it?
Scarlett and Ironclad wrote:Campermon,...a middle aged, middle class, Guardian reading, dad of four, knackered hippy, woolly jumper wearing wino and science teacher.
questioner121 wrote:We see some big changes in animals.For example different patterned zebras, dwarfs, giants, hairy people, cross breeds, etc.
questioner121 wrote:Why nothing about electroreception? Why don't other land mammals have it?
Bribase wrote:
Excuse me. You initiated your prescence on this thread, telling us that we are wrong when we say that creationists don't infer evolutionary mechanisms. You told us that they do, now you're saying that they don't again. Try to show some consistency in the future. Then again, it's far too much to ask from someone that requires an incredibly high bar for evidence of naturalistic explanations of our origins but presumes the existence of a mind that can author universes but can't make people's knees, backs, eyes, toenails and teeth (to name a few) properly without it having all of the hallmarks of evolution.
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