orpheus wrote:

Teuton wrote:What makes a great movie great?
Movies are complex works of art, and so there is more than one aesthetic aspect to consider:
1. narrative design (screenplay/story)
2. photographic design (picture design)
3. scenic design (set design)
4. performance of the actors/actresses
A great movie is one which is extraordinarily good with regard to 1-4. Of course, this still doesn't answer the question of the respective criteria for aesthetic greatness or goodness with regard to 1-4.

I'd add to that list directing, editing, and in some cases sound/music.

You're right.

SafeAsMilk wrote:

hoopy frood wrote:
Nicholas Cage - is there no beginning to his talent.

Actually, I think he was fantastic in Raising Arizona and Wild At Heart. Oh, and Moonstruck, but I didn't actually like that movie
Though generally I agree, any time I see his terminally confused gaze on a poster, it's pretty much guaranteed to be a piece of crap.

Yesterday, I saw Cage in Werner Herzog's BAD LIEUTENANT, and his performance therein is anything but crappy.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OblPKObX6Q[/youtube]

Must admit I'd never heard of that one before...looks like I should check it out

SafeAsMilk wrote:Must admit I'd never heard of that one before...looks like I should check it out

Here's a review: http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbc ... /911189997

SafeAsMilk wrote:

orpheus wrote:and in some cases sound/music.

Some cases?! Name me one great movie with crappy sound

Well, silents.

SafeAsMilk wrote:

orpheus wrote:and in some cases sound/music.

Some cases?! Name me one great movie with crappy sound

Sound is an odd one. It's the one that no-one really judges films on (with a few exceptions), and yet it's the quickest way to ruin an otherwise good film if you get it wrong. Basically, sound always has to be competent in a way that the visuals don't (which is ironic, because in music, people are more willing to forgive poor sound recording). So yeah, all great movies will have competent sound, but I can only think of two or three great movies where the sound is particularly amazing. Soundtracks often get a lot of praise, but not the sound mix itself.

Sityl wrote:Just watched Mullholland Drive. Man, that was the craziest movie. It was awesome.

I might have posted this elsewhere but thats one of my favorite movies ever.

I have the dvd edition with the bunch of postcards inside which is meant to give away the plot and meaning behind the movie...... it doesn't at all!

I can't even tell you what my favourite film is, never mind what's the best film of all time.

I'm smitten with Melancholia at the moment, but in typing that I've just excluded numerous films I am also in love with. Antichrist is not among them.

Jumbo wrote:

Sityl wrote:Just watched Mullholland Drive. Man, that was the craziest movie. It was awesome.

I might have posted this elsewhere but thats one of my favorite movies ever.

I have the dvd edition with the bunch of postcards inside which is meant to give away the plot and meaning behind the movie...... it doesn't at all!

Damn it all to hell! Will its mysteries never be revealed to me?? Must I be doomed to forever wander the earth thinking it's just a really beautifully executed excuse for some girl-on-girl action?

Fallible wrote:I can't even tell you what my favourite film is, never mind what's the best film of all time.

I'm smitten with Melancholia at the moment, but in typing that I've just excluded numerous films I am also in love with. Antichrist is not among them.

Melancholia is extraordinary. It stayed with me for weeks after I saw it. Very worth seeing several times, btw. Because the sweep of the story is so overwhelming, there were many things I missed at first. A very rich, carefully designed and balanced structure, so many internal correspondences - really breathtaking.

Fallible wrote:

Jumbo wrote:

Sityl wrote:Just watched Mullholland Drive. Man, that was the craziest movie. It was awesome.

I might have posted this elsewhere but thats one of my favorite movies ever.

I have the dvd edition with the bunch of postcards inside which is meant to give away the plot and meaning behind the movie...... it doesn't at all!

Damn it all to hell! Will its mysteries never be revealed to me??

She's dying and it's all a dream of what might have been.

Next!

Ok, I saw Vertigo the other day.. it fucking sucked big time, it was ok in my memory but seeing it again ruined it

Fallible wrote:

Jumbo wrote:

Sityl wrote:Just watched Mullholland Drive. Man, that was the craziest movie. It was awesome.

I might have posted this elsewhere but thats one of my favorite movies ever.

I have the dvd edition with the bunch of postcards inside which is meant to give away the plot and meaning behind the movie...... it doesn't at all!

Damn it all to hell! Will its mysteries never be revealed to me??

Maybe it's because of my training in music (which is so abstract), but I've always felt that one of the characteristics of art is that it resists synopsis. If it could be totally explained, there would be no need for it to have been created in the first place; the summary would suffice.

Obviously, there are great works in which straight narrative is more important, so aspects of those can be summarized. And these are no less great because of it. Indeed, it can be tricky to take the full measure of a really narrative work like The Third Man, precisely because it's so easy to summarize the plot. One can be lulled into thinking that's the main thing - or the only thing. With David Lynch's work, the plot recedes in prominence, and other, thornier, puzzling, vexing and less reducible aspects come to the fore.

Must I be doomed to forever wander the earth thinking it's just a really beautifully executed excuse for some girl-on-girl action?

Well, yes, there is that.

orpheus wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:

orpheus wrote:and in some cases sound/music.

Some cases?! Name me one great movie with crappy sound

Well, silents.

Those don't have crappy sound, their sound is exquisite. You seem to be forgetting your John Cage

A friend and I were asked to perform a live soundtrack to a silent movie, which I'm really excited about. Hopefully it will happen sooner than later! There is a great version of Nosferatu that has one continuous piece of piano music as its soundtrack, which I believe was performed live. It seems like such a great opportunity for improvisational playing, I find it hard to believe that people would just sit in a theater with no sound at all!

SafeAsMilk wrote:

orpheus wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:

orpheus wrote:and in some cases sound/music.

Some cases?! Name me one great movie with crappy sound

Well, silents.

Those don't have crappy sound, their sound is exquisite. You seem to be forgetting your John Cage

Damn, I always do that!

A friend and I were asked to perform a live soundtrack to a silent movie, which I'm really excited about. Hopefully it will happen sooner than later! There is a great version of Nosferatu that has one continuous piece of piano music as its soundtrack, which I believe was performed live. It seems like such a great opportunity for improvisational playing, I find it hard to believe that people would just sit in a theater with no sound at all!

What a great opportunity! This is an all but lost art.

I've not seen that version of Nosferatu. Will have to check it out. (Now there's one hell of a film. Still scary almost a century later. And that creepy, bizarre, expressionist design; the weird angles of the buildings and sets, the pacing, the dude himself...very unsettling.)

Well cookiejon and orph, I think between you you have it covered.

Now then, Nosferatu. That is fabulous. Anyone seen the fictional account of the filming of it, Shadow of the Vampire, with John Malcovich, Willem Dafoe and Eddie Izzard? I am not a fan of The Dafoe, but I do have a grudging admiration for him in this Apparently he went all method for the duration.

I don't know that one. It goes on my list.

Fallible wrote:Well cookiejon and orph, I think between you you have it covered.

Now then, Nosferatu. That is fabulous. Anyone seen the fictional account of the filming of it, Shadow of the Vampire, with John Malcovich, Willem Dafoe and Eddie Izzard? I am not a fan of The Dafoe, but I do have a grudging admiration for him in this Apparently he went all method for the duration.

I loved Shadow of the Vampire, haven't seen it for a while; but thought it was beautifully shot - will have to dig out the DVD.

Fallible wrote:Well cookiejon and orph, I think between you you have it covered.

Now then, Nosferatu. That is fabulous. Anyone seen the fictional account of the filming of it, Shadow of the Vampire, with John Malcovich, Willem Dafoe and Eddie Izzard? I am not a fan of The Dafoe, but I do have a grudging admiration for him in this Apparently he went all method for the duration.

Yes both are wonderful movies!

A side note- I saw Shadow of the Vampire dubbed into German and I'm pretty sure Malkovich voiced the German version as well.

Fallible wrote:Well cookiejon and orph, I think between you you have it covered.

Now then, Nosferatu. That is fabulous. Anyone seen the fictional account of the filming of it, Shadow of the Vampire, with John Malcovich, Willem Dafoe and Eddie Izzard? I am not a fan of The Dafoe, but I do have a grudging admiration for him in this Apparently he went all method for the duration.

I saw Nosferatu at a special Halloween showing at the Brixton Ritzy. Before the film started and the audience were coming into the cinema, actors dressed as Nosferatu and his victims walked slowly up and down the aisles. One couple were intently looking for their seats, completely oblivious to what was going on around them. Nosferatu glided up behind them, plucked the ticket from guy's grasp and ushered them to their seas with a graceful bow. The poor things mechanically took their seats with the funniest look of shock and confusion I have ever seen!