ScholasticSpastic wrote:

Davey122 wrote:
Google happiness and health harvard. That should take you there.

Do your own homework.

When I clicked the link I posted it took me to the newsletter home page, not the article. So if you Google "health happiness Harvard" it will take you to the article and you will see the link between happiness and health. I won't even go near the placebo effect.

Davey122 wrote:
When I clicked the link I posted it took me to the newsletter home page, not the article. So if you Google "health happiness Harvard" it will take you to the article and you will see the link between happiness and health. I won't even go near the placebo effect.

It would have taken you less effort to simply go to the article, copy the link, and past it into your reply than it took you to type out your reply.

ScholasticSpastic wrote:

Davey122 wrote:
When I clicked the link I posted it took me to the newsletter home page, not the article. So if you Google "health happiness Harvard" it will take you to the article and you will see the link between happiness and health. I won't even go near the placebo effect.

It would have taken you less effort to simply go to the article, copy the link, and past it into your reply than it took you to type out your reply.

The link I gave you doesn't work.

Here is a Tony Robbins notion that you can test for its effectiveness. “The quality of your life is related to the quality of your questions.”

For example, if you ask, “Why am I so fat?” You will get answers like, “Because you eat too much, you eat the wrong food and you don’t exercise.” This is not particularly useful information. A much better question would be, “What can I do to achieve my ideal, healthy weight?” Asking this question will get you much more information.

Can you see how this notion of “asking better questions” could improve someone’s life?

Davey122 wrote:
Here is a Tony Robbins notion that you can test for its effectiveness. “The quality of your life is related to the quality of your questions.”

For example, if you ask, “Why am I so fat?” You will get answers like, “Because you eat too much, you eat the wrong food and you don’t exercise.” This is not particularly useful information. A much better question would be, “What can I do to achieve my ideal, healthy weight?” Asking this question will get you much more information.

Can you see how this notion of “asking better questions” could improve someone’s life?

Well if you really need Tony Robbins to teach you how to think, then perhaps you need all the help you can get.

But now if you want to show that this idea from Tony Robbins can be tested for its effectiveness, you're going to have to explain how you decide which questions are better or worse. It can't be just that better questions give more useful information because that's the result that you're supposed to be using to evaluate the technique. You also have to define how you quantify the usefulness of the information you get out. Then you have to realise that simply using your own personal responses is not a rigorous test of effectiveness - you need to test the results from a large sample of people alongside a control group. Let us know when you, or anyone else, has done all that and we might be able to have a rational conversation about it.

Davey122 wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:

Davey122 wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:You don't have to pay the shill money, there's innumerable summaries of his courses to be found online. Here's a great one: http://www.apologeticsindex.org/s51aa.html


Another idiotic argument from you. "Hey, you've never tried heroin, how do you know it isn't the best thing that ever happened to you?"

Another idiotic comment. You should try heroin. It might help.

The hypocrisy and butthurt floweth freely

Davey122 wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:You don't have to pay the shill money, there's innumerable summaries of his courses to be found online. Here's a great one: http://www.apologeticsindex.org/s51aa.html


Another idiotic argument from you. "Hey, you've never tried heroin, how do you know it isn't the best thing that ever happened to you?"

I just read your worldview: "It's all fucked, do what you can." Why not just give up?

Yes yes, without Tony Robbins, everyone should just give up. Another wonder argument there, Davey, I'm sure he's quite proud. Paying per moronic post, or just a lump sum?

I never said without Tony Robbins everyone should just give up, did I, Mr. SafeAsMilktoast?

It certainly does seem to be what you're saying, seeing as you cited my jokey profile notes in response to demolishing the poor excuse for help that Tony offers. Talk about desperation!

Everyone trying to better themselves is automatically a moron and a hypocrite because you don't agree with them.

Pulled square out of your ass, just like everything else you've posted in this thread. You, on the other hand, are implying that just because someone finds Robbins to be full of shit, suddenly they're against people trying to better themselves. Hint: I'm actually for people bettering themselves, which is why I point out Robbins is full of shit. There is no evidence whatsoever that his snake oil accomplishes anything useful. There's plenty of evidence that he bilked people out of millions of dollars though, just look at his bank account!

If you are living in the "United States of Apathy" you are the one with the butthurt.

Davey122 wrote:For example, if you ask, “Why am I so fat?” You will get answers like, “Because you eat too much, you eat the wrong food and you don’t exercise.” This is not particularly useful information.

Is it not? The answers appear to be pretty clear and to the point about you need to do to change your current state of being "fat."

Davey122 wrote:A much better question would be, “What can I do to achieve my ideal, healthy weight?” Asking this question will get you much more information.

More information like "eat less", "eat more healthily" and "exercise more" ???

Not exactly game changing information compared to the answers to the previous question.

Davey122 wrote:
The link I gave you doesn't work.

That's unfortunate, but probably lucky for you as I recall other sources which did not say what you seemed to think they said.

Here is a Tony Robbins notion that you can test for its effectiveness. “The quality of your life is related to the quality of your questions.”

For example, if you ask, “Why am I so fat?” You will get answers like, “Because you eat too much, you eat the wrong food and you don’t exercise.” This is not particularly useful information. A much better question would be, “What can I do to achieve my ideal, healthy weight?” Asking this question will get you much more information.

Can you see how this notion of “asking better questions” could improve someone’s life?

On this forum we like to say that the plural of anecdote is not data. What the phrase means is that you cannot bundle any number of testimonials together and wind up with anything stronger than testimonial evidence- which is weak enough that if it's all you have you don't actually have any evidence.

How many witnesses must I present to you before a magician's trick stops being sleight of hand and becomes actual magic? The answer should be that it doesn't matter. There is no amount of witnesses who believe that the magician did magic that is sufficient to render what the magician did magical. Similarly, there is no amount of anecdotal events which are sufficient to make one confident that something works (or doesn't work). The rational thing is to suspend judgement until the thing can be tested in a way which ensures valid results.

You are asking me to stop being rational and to suspend my skepticism. These things would represent an unfair application of my standards for evidence. Only bullshit artists ask someone to unfairly apply their standards for evidence, and so I am comfortable saying no. I won't do it. And that I am so consistently asked to do it makes me comfortable declaring Tony Robbins a bullshit artist rather than suspending judgement.

Davey122 wrote: If you are living in the "United States of Apathy" you are the one with the butthurt.

This is a misattribution. You are referring to me, not SafeAsMilk. And it appears that the joke is on you, since you've completely misunderstood what I mean by it. I'd be happy to explain, but it's rather off-topic. We can start a thread about low US voter turnout in the Politics sub-forum if you like.

ScholasticSpastic wrote:

Davey122 wrote:
The link I gave you doesn't work.

That's unfortunate, but probably lucky for you as I recall other sources which did not say what you seemed to think they said.

Here is a Tony Robbins notion that you can test for its effectiveness. “The quality of your life is related to the quality of your questions.”

For example, if you ask, “Why am I so fat?” You will get answers like, “Because you eat too much, you eat the wrong food and you don’t exercise.” This is not particularly useful information. A much better question would be, “What can I do to achieve my ideal, healthy weight?” Asking this question will get you much more information.

Can you see how this notion of “asking better questions” could improve someone’s life?

On this forum we like to say that the plural of anecdote is not data. What the phrase means is that you cannot bundle any number of testimonials together and wind up with anything stronger than testimonial evidence- which is weak enough that if it's all you have you don't actually have any evidence.

How many witnesses must I present to you before a magician's trick stops being sleight of hand and becomes actual magic? The answer should be that it doesn't matter. There is no amount of witnesses who believe that the magician did magic that is sufficient to render what the magician did magical. Similarly, there is no amount of anecdotal events which are sufficient to make one confident that something works (or doesn't work). The rational thing is to suspend judgement until the thing can be tested in a way which ensures valid results.

You are asking me to stop being rational and to suspend my skepticism. These things would represent an unfair application of my standards for evidence. Only bullshit artists ask someone to unfairly apply their standards for evidence, and so I am comfortable saying no. I won't do it. And that I am so consistently asked to do it makes me comfortable declaring Tony Robbins a bullshit artist rather than suspending judgement.

So you honestly can't see how asking better questions will give you better answers. And I'm not asking you to stop being rational and to suspend your skepticism. I'm simply asking you to ask better questions.

SafeAsMilk wrote:

ScholasticSpastic wrote:We've had a surprising number of people stop by the forum just to argue for Tony

Yes, quite surprising! I can't imagine why they aren't off making millions from his wonderful advice.

You don’t have to be a millionaire. A guy who works as a mechanic and who conscientiously fixes up stranger’s cars, loves his family and friends, is a success in my opinion.

Davey122 wrote:So you honestly can't see how asking better questions will give you better answers.

Could you first provide an example of this, given thus far you have manifestly failed to do so.

Davey122 wrote:
So you honestly can't see how asking better questions will give you better answers. And I'm not asking you to stop being rational and to suspend your skepticism. I'm simply asking you to ask better questions.

I honestly can't see how this response indicates that you've read and comprehended the things I've been saying to you. It isn't a response my post that you quoted at all- or at least not topical to the things I've said.

Your statement that asking better questions will give you better answers is simply another platitude. What constitutes a better question? How do you determine which answers are better? It's so general as to be useless. Leading back into my post, that you failed to respond adequately to, even if I were to ask better questions and obtain better results (by whatever metric) this would be anecdotal (or testimonial) evidence, which is only very slightly better than not having any evidence at all.

Davey122 wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:

ScholasticSpastic wrote:We've had a surprising number of people stop by the forum just to argue for Tony

Yes, quite surprising! I can't imagine why they aren't off making millions from his wonderful advice.

You don’t have to be a millionaire. A guy who works as a mechanic and who conscientiously fixes up stranger’s cars, loves his family and friends, is a success in my opinion.

What you appear to be saying here is that someone who has attended Mr. Robbins's seminars, and winds up no better off than they were prior to attending Mr. Robbins's seminars (you know, minus the thousands of dollars they spent on the seminars) is an example of success attributable to having attended Mr. Robbins's seminars.

quas wrote:First of all, what the fuck is NLP? How to define it?

Is it just some hypnosis technique? Or is it more than that? Most people think of it as hypnosis techniques. But, it is definitely more than that. NLP is more encompassing than just bodily gestures to anchor in (associate) certain emotions to your target and putting certain emphasis (inflection) or repetition to certain words to make it stick in your target's mind, but words that you say to reframe the conversation (not just words, but when and how you say it matter as well, eg. interrupting people when they are talking to you at key intervals). I am doubtful that the hypnosis techniques actually work on a subliminal level, but I am certain that conversational reframing techniques are very effective persuasion techniques.

{Youtube Link Deleted to save space}

NLP is bullshit.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Neurolingu ... rogramming

Davey122 wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:

ScholasticSpastic wrote:We've had a surprising number of people stop by the forum just to argue for Tony

Yes, quite surprising! I can't imagine why they aren't off making millions from his wonderful advice.

You don’t have to be a millionaire. A guy who works as a mechanic and who conscientiously fixes up stranger’s cars, loves his family and friends, is a success in my opinion.

Gosh, that's...beautiful. Just...beautiful. Were you in a peak state when you wrote it?

I think Mr. Mechanic's family would love him a whole lot more if he wasn't throwing his money away at Bilky Robbins seminars. Maybe he should be taking a family finance course instead? At least in that situation, you'd have a clear plan and clear results.

SafeAsMilk wrote:

Davey122 wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:

ScholasticSpastic wrote:We've had a surprising number of people stop by the forum just to argue for Tony

Yes, quite surprising! I can't imagine why they aren't off making millions from his wonderful advice.

You don’t have to be a millionaire. A guy who works as a mechanic and who conscientiously fixes up stranger’s cars, loves his family and friends, is a success in my opinion.

Gosh, that's...beautiful. Just...beautiful. Were you in a peak state when you wrote it?

I think Mr. Mechanic's family would love him a whole lot more if he wasn't throwing his money away at Bilky Robbins seminars. Maybe he should be taking a family finance course instead? At least in that situation, you'd have a clear plan and clear results.

What if Mr. Mechanic just bought some of Robbins' programs on tape or CD? That wouldn't cost much and he could listen at home. What if he just watched Robbins videos on YouTube? What if he just borrowed some books on NLP or Robbins from his local library? What if he borrowed the material from a friend. See, that way he would save money and still get some useful advice he was unfamiliar with.

Well, it's like I've stumbled upon a group of cynical mean-spirited assholes. It's been interesting, although thoroughly unpleasant, like taking a bus trip with someone who has needed a bath for a long time. I have absolutely no desire to continue with this. I've wasted enough time - time I could have spent watching Derren Brown videos or even porn.

Rational Skepticism -- a lifeboat for the rational mind -- so that's what you call it.

I am apologizing for the negative comment above and I take it back.

Davey122 wrote:
Well, it's like I've stumbled upon a group of cynical mean-spirited assholes. It's been interesting, although thoroughly unpleasant, like taking a bus trip with someone who has needed a bath for a long time. I have absolutely no desire to continue with this. I've wasted enough time - time I could have spent watching Derren Brown videos or even porn.

Rational Skepticism -- a lifeboat for the rational mind -- so that's what you call it.

Says the hypocrite who's decided to descend to name-calling. Is this another wonderful example of what you've learned from Tony Robbins? Are you proud that you've represented Mr. Robbins in this way?

I must say that if I were looking for an advocate, it appears I could do much, much better than you. You'd have done more for Mr. Robbins if you hadn't said anything at all. Because all I see from you is an ape who is no less confused than anyone else, but has been fooled into projecting his confusion onto others in order to support a false sense of superiority.

I hope you're actually leaving this time, because you have become most thoroughly unpleasant, like taking a bus trip with someone who has needed a bath for a long time.

If Robbins' stuff helped Mr. Mechanic to be happy with what he's got or recategorize his priorities to live a more fulfilling life then that's great. I don't know how these seminars can help, but that's just, like, my opinion man. Whatever floats your boat is my motto, as long as whatever that is doesn't cost me anything. Some people like Robbins, some like transcendental meditation, some like heroin. As long as it harms no other do as thou will.

Davey122 wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:

Davey122 wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:
Yes, quite surprising! I can't imagine why they aren't off making millions from his wonderful advice.

You don’t have to be a millionaire. A guy who works as a mechanic and who conscientiously fixes up stranger’s cars, loves his family and friends, is a success in my opinion.

Gosh, that's...beautiful. Just...beautiful. Were you in a peak state when you wrote it?

I think Mr. Mechanic's family would love him a whole lot more if he wasn't throwing his money away at Bilky Robbins seminars. Maybe he should be taking a family finance course instead? At least in that situation, you'd have a clear plan and clear results.

What if Mr. Mechanic just bought some of Robbins' programs on tape or CD? That wouldn't cost much and he could listen at home. What if he just watched Robbins videos on YouTube? What if he just borrowed some books on NLP or Robbins from his local library? What if he borrowed the material from a friend. See, that way he would save money and still get some useful advice he was unfamiliar with.

Well, it's like I've stumbled upon a group of cynical mean-spirited assholes. It's been interesting, although thoroughly unpleasant, like taking a bus trip with someone who has needed a bath for a long time. I have absolutely no desire to continue with this. I've wasted enough time - time I could have spent watching Derren Brown videos or even porn.

Rational Skepticism -- a lifeboat for the rational mind -- so that's what you call it.

Mummy, why is the man being mean?