Moonwatcher wrote:

HughMcB wrote:What exactly is distinguishable between a non-corporeal, absentee invisible man and a a non-corporeal, absentee invisible woman?

That we can pretend she looks like whatever actress most recently played Athena or Aphrodite- if she, you know, was solid and visible rather than invisible and non-corporeal.

Which brings us to a far more relevant question than whether GodTM would be a man or a woman, who would GodTM look like and would you (or could you) do him/her?

First programme in the series is on BBC2 (UK) tonight at 9pm...

Why do we pre suppose that God must have any gender at all : as any
thing that resides in the metaphysical can not be explained by mere
biology : and why does God even have to be tangible : why can not
it be a state of mind or a sense of being : but anyway if we could
really understand it well then either it would be less than perfect
or we would be metaphysical too : therefore one can state such
questions rather superfluous then can one not : think one can

Most males aspire to having a female who is as beautiful
as Aphrodite or Helen but the latter was responsible
for bringing two nations to war whilst the former
had a rather ugly birth : so those of you of a
nervous disposition may cross your legs
if you wish to satisfy your ignorance
of this particular piece of Greek
Mythology so don t say I did
not warn you ha ha ha ha

I've recorded this programme but I haven't watched it yet. However I went through a long period of reading about ancient Goddesses and a lot of people who were writing about them tending to be women.

I know for me it was a feminist thing. In other words, having been brought up in the Presbyterian Church where we didn't even have statues of Mary as a representative I was overjoyed to discover that there had actually been goddesses in the ancient near East. Well, first I was overjoyed, then I was furious.

So I wouldn't be surprised if Bettany Hughes is making a bit of the same point.

There's a story in Numbers 21 about Miriam and Aaron, sister and brother to Moses. They go to god and complain about the fact that they both used to have god's ear, but now it appears he only listens to Moses. God then strikes Miriam with leprosy and she is exiled from the camp (for a week, I think). That story always enraged me because Aaron had protested as well, but he ends up as High Priest.

And so it goes...

I myself have only read Helen : Goddess : Princess : Whore by Bettany Hughes
but what a great piece of literature : she writes with such flair and
passion not to mention knowledge and understanding : I got
the very distinctive impression that she identifies
with her subject and even admires her
What a talent she possesses
[ Bettany not Helen ]

I thought the progamme was interesting, and I didn't get the impression that it was a pro-religion propaganda piece at all.

I think the tone was set right at the beginning, where one of the contributers said:

"If you leave out Christ and the Apostle Paul it is perfectly possible to tell the story of Christianity without ever mentioning man."

Very interesting, so far.

surreptitious57 wrote:Most males aspire to having a female who is as beautiful
as Aphrodite or Helen but the latter was responsible
for bringing two nations to war whilst the former
had a rather ugly birth : so those of you of a
nervous disposition may cross your legs
if you wish to satisfy your ignorance
of this particular piece of Greek
Mythology so don t say I did
not warn you ha ha ha ha

I know I look for an "attractive birth" as a quality I go for in my female companions.

I've just finished watching it. I've pretty much studied all of that stuff, so it wasn't a surprise to me. I'm wondering how much of a revelation it was to some of you?

I'll be catching up with it on iPlayer Nora - it looks very interesting. Are there any responses from prominent Christians yet?

"If you leave out Christ and the Apostle Paul it is perfectly possible to tell the story of Christianity without ever mentioning man."

Hey, no danged female coulda bilted the ark, thas mens work.

Nora_Leonard wrote:I've just finished watching it. I've pretty much studied all of that stuff, so it wasn't a surprise to me. I'm wondering how much of a revelation it was to some of you?

I sort of knew about female deities of the ancient past, but not to the extent that was explained in the program. It seems that the brute force of the male swept away the 'Magical Mystery Tour' that was (and still is in some places) female. Yet the Romans still had to have a female deity to 'sort out' Hannibal...

It would seem that as civilisations became larger and encroached on other lands, they had to be met with male violence and domination of a sort that was not readily part of the female deity's psyche. The female deity was 'OK' in their own country.

laklak wrote:Hey, no danged female coulda bilted the ark, thas mens work.

Nah! But I bet there was a woman at the back tellin' 'em what to do...

Alan B wrote:I think the tone was set right at the beginning, where one of the contributers said:

"If you leave out Christ and the Apostle Paul it is perfectly possible to tell the story of Christianity without ever mentioning man."

Very interesting, so far.

If you leave out the man responsible for Christianity, then there is no Christianity to tell a story of.

Alan B wrote:

laklak wrote:Hey, no danged female coulda bilted the ark, thas mens work.

Nah! But I bet there was a woman at the back tellin' 'em what to do...

40 days and 40 nights of backseat navigation, jesus wept.

Oh, wonderful! We're stuck on a mountain in Turkey! Now we've got to take these kangaroos all the way back to Australia! If you'd just listened to me and made a LEFT instead of a RIGHT we wouldn't be in this fix. You never listen to me, Mr. God-Is-Calling-Me, do you?

If there is a female god I doubt it would create man to leave toilet seats up.

Wiðercora wrote:

Alan B wrote:I think the tone was set right at the beginning, where one of the contributers said:

"If you leave out Christ and the Apostle Paul it is perfectly possible to tell the story of Christianity without ever mentioning man."

Very interesting, so far.

If you leave out the man responsible for Christianity, then there is no Christianity to tell a story of.

I think what she may have been suggesting was that the theme could fit any number of cults/religions regardless of whether they have male or female deities.

The second episode showed how the early Christian church (<400 years) had women priests and bishops - until Augustine appeared on the scene.
She quotes from the 'Paul & Thecla' MS which was 'deliberately' left out of the Bible and also where in the Bible, Paul instructs a woman to travel to another Christian group giving her complete authority to speak and answer questions on his behalf. That is, Paul considered her to have equal authority to himself - she was not a lesser person than a man.

There's also a crazy woman who was totally convinced that male dominance was pre-ordained; she was so serious about it, I thought she was going to 'bop' Bettany for being heretical. (I could sense Bettany withdrawing a little bit). A dangerous single-minded woman, was my impression.

She also discusses the Roman Vestal Virgins and their perceived role in the 'survival' of Rome - something I didn't know much about.

Next week touches on the Middle ages - I expect she will mention Hildegarde de Bingen - such a talented woman.

So far the series has concentrated on the immediate land area and its pre-history from which our own 'Western' civilization has developed with a bit of India thrown in. I would like to see it expanded to include all the other civilizations and cultures, particularly Far Eastern and Island cultures.

That crazy woman was something else.
Now I know where Vesta matches got their from.

It was interesting and exposed a lot of the crap about the begining of xtianity.

Only thing I object to is the filming method. Very tiring all that flashing etc.