maynard wrote:

z8000783 wrote:

maynard wrote:Nothing that comes to mind.

So in all other aspects of your life you believe the things you believe because there is some basis for it and you don't believe things when there is no basis for it, but in the case of probably one of the most important things that affects our lives in significant ways, you believe that purely on the basis of wanting to?

I don't mean to put words in your mouth so if that is inaccurate then please do correct it.

John

You're gtting there. Basically I believe whatever I like. I'll give you some examples.

I believe that either there was a big bang, in which case, god made it happen, or, that the physical universe has always existed. I'm fine with both possibilities. I believe that there are an infinite number of dimensions and alternative universes, I believe in ghosts, telepathy, the illuminati and new world order, the photon belt and the age of aquarius, I believe in many things. I'm completely honest with myself about what feels right to me. It's extremely liberating. I don't tie myself down to anything and I literally pick and choose, and change my mind if I feel diffrently about something.

I know many will probably disagree with me here but it sounds to me like you have quite a good handle on life. You know most of that stuff is rubbish but you are happy to believe it and as you say, you shed them when they are no longer useful. I can't imagine you will be shouting here and demanding that your beliefs "Are true" either.

The only thing I would caution is that you are careful what you say to your children because they will not have the cogitative ability to understand the difference between reality and fantasy as you do but I expect you have that covered as well.

John

z8000783 wrote:

maynard wrote:

z8000783 wrote:

maynard wrote:Nothing that comes to mind.

So in all other aspects of your life you believe the things you believe because there is some basis for it and you don't believe things when there is no basis for it, but in the case of probably one of the most important things that affects our lives in significant ways, you believe that purely on the basis of wanting to?

I don't mean to put words in your mouth so if that is inaccurate then please do correct it.

John

You're gtting there. Basically I believe whatever I like. I'll give you some examples.

I believe that either there was a big bang, in which case, god made it happen, or, that the physical universe has always existed. I'm fine with both possibilities. I believe that there are an infinite number of dimensions and alternative universes, I believe in ghosts, telepathy, the illuminati and new world order, the photon belt and the age of aquarius, I believe in many things. I'm completely honest with myself about what feels right to me. It's extremely liberating. I don't tie myself down to anything and I literally pick and choose, and change my mind if I feel diffrently about something.

I know many will probably disagree with me here but it sounds to me like you have quite a good handle on life. You know most of that stuff is rubbish but you are happy to believe it and as you say, you shed then when they are no longer longer useful. I can't imagine you will be shouting here and demanding that your beliefs "Are true" either.

The only thing I would caution is that you are careful what you say to your children because they will not have the cogitative ability to understand the difference between reality and fantasy as you do but I expect you have that covered as well.

John

Why do you think many here will disagree with what you're saying?

maynard wrote:

z8000783 wrote:

maynard wrote:

z8000783 wrote:

maynard wrote:Nothing that comes to mind.

So in all other aspects of your life you believe the things you believe because there is some basis for it and you don't believe things when there is no basis for it, but in the case of probably one of the most important things that affects our lives in significant ways, you believe that purely on the basis of wanting to?

I don't mean to put words in your mouth so if that is inaccurate then please do correct it.

John

You're gtting there. Basically I believe whatever I like. I'll give you some examples.

I believe that either there was a big bang, in which case, god made it happen, or, that the physical universe has always existed. I'm fine with both possibilities. I believe that there are an infinite number of dimensions and alternative universes, I believe in ghosts, telepathy, the illuminati and new world order, the photon belt and the age of aquarius, I believe in many things. I'm completely honest with myself about what feels right to me. It's extremely liberating. I don't tie myself down to anything and I literally pick and choose, and change my mind if I feel diffrently about something.

I know many will probably disagree with me here but it sounds to me like you have quite a good handle on life. You know most of that stuff is rubbish but you are happy to believe it and as you say, you shed them when they are no longer useful. I can't imagine you will be shouting here and demanding that your beliefs "Are true" either.

The only thing I would caution is that you are careful what you say to your children because they will not have the cogitative ability to understand the difference between reality and fantasy as you do but I expect you have that covered as well.

John

Why do you think many here will disagree with what you're saying?

Hang around for a bit and you will find out.

John

Will do.

z8000783 wrote:
I know many will probably disagree with me here but it sounds to me like you have quite a good handle on life. You know most of that stuff is rubbish but you are happy to believe it and as you say, you shed them when they are no longer useful. I can't imagine you will be shouting here and demanding that your beliefs "Are true" either.

The only thing I would caution is that you are careful what you say to your children because they will not have the cogitative ability to understand the difference between reality and fantasy as you do but I expect you have that covered as well.

maynard's wrong on the Big Bang thing. That's a point where his belief needs to be modified because it is actually falsified by existing evidence. Otherwise, I agree it seems like a fairly innocuous form of theism, depending on how his fantasy of God existing affects how he actually deals with other people.

Shrunk wrote:

z8000783 wrote:
I know many will probably disagree with me here but it sounds to me like you have quite a good handle on life. You know most of that stuff is rubbish but you are happy to believe it and as you say, you shed them when they are no longer useful. I can't imagine you will be shouting here and demanding that your beliefs "Are true" either.

The only thing I would caution is that you are careful what you say to your children because they will not have the cogitative ability to understand the difference between reality and fantasy as you do but I expect you have that covered as well.

maynard's wrong on the Big Bang thing. That's a point where his belief needs to be modified because it is actually falsified by existing evidence. Otherwise, I agree it seems like a fairly innocuous form of theism, depending on how his fantasy of God existing affects how he actually deals with other people.

Why do I need to change my beliefs about the big bang? I mean, it's what I believe, and I promise you, my beliefs about it, whether I'm right or wrong, will never cause you any trouble. There's no need for me to believe one thing or another, there isn't even a need for me to be right. Having said that, I could be right. The big bang, if it is real, could have been caused by a god.

maynard wrote:
Why do I need to change my beliefs about the big bang? I mean, it's what I believe, and I promise you, my beliefs about it, whether I'm right or wrong, will never cause you any trouble. There's no need for me to believe one thing or another, there isn't even a need for me to be right. Having said that, I could be right. The big bang, if it is real, could have been caused by a god.

I'm taking issue with this part of your statement:

I believe that either there was a big bang, in which case, god made it happen, or, that the physical universe has always existed.

The evidence is pretty overwhelming that the Big Bang occurred, and that the physical universe has not always existed, at least not in its present form. The "god made it happen" part is neither verifiable or falsifable, so you're free to believe it under your policy of "I can believe anything I want, so long as there's no evidence against it." But denying the big bang is not compatible with that policy. Sorry if I'm being too persnickety.

Shrunk wrote:

maynard wrote:
Why do I need to change my beliefs about the big bang? I mean, it's what I believe, and I promise you, my beliefs about it, whether I'm right or wrong, will never cause you any trouble. There's no need for me to believe one thing or another, there isn't even a need for me to be right. Having said that, I could be right. The big bang, if it is real, could have been caused by a god.

I'm taking issue with this part of your statement:

I believe that either there was a big bang, in which case, god made it happen, or, that the physical universe has always existed.

The evidence is pretty overwhelming that the Big Bang occurred, and that the physical universe has not always existed, at least not in its present form. The "god made it happen" part is neither verifiable or falsifable, so you're free to believe it under your policy of "I can believe anything I want, so long as there's no evidence against it." But denying the big bang is not compatible with that policy. Sorry if I'm being too persnickety.

I don't mind if the big bang occured. But I'll say that it makes more sense to say that there was never any need for a physical universe to come into into existence. I'm not sure that anything has ever come into existence. Even scientists say (although correct me if this is wrong) that energy can't be created or destroyed.

The big bang would imply that it did. Doesn't make sense. Unless you assume that all that energy came from somewhere else, which you must assume, because all the energy can't be created. Apart from the fact that no one was there, we can hardly assume to know what was going on before the big bang.

maynard wrote: I don't mind if the big bang occured. But I'll say that it makes more sense to say that there was never any need for a physical universe to come into into existence. I'm not sure that anything has ever come into existence. Even scientists say (although correct me if this is wrong) that energy can't be created or destroyed.

The big bang would imply that it did. Doesn't make sense. Unless you assume that all that energy came from somewhere else, which you must assume, because all the energy can't be created. Apart from the fact that no one was there, we can hardly assume to know what was going on before the big bang.

Your understanding of the big bang theory is incorrect. It only describes the events that occured after the expansion of the initial singularity. It makes no statements on the origin of that singularity in the first place.

I'll also point out, maynard, that you are now contradicting yourself. Your initial position was something like "I believe God exists, but there is no way this can be demonstrated as true and it hasn't been demonstrated as false. So I'll just continue to believe it because it make me feel good to do so, recognizing that this is an arbitrary decision on my part, and that there is a possibly infinite number of other things which also have not been proven not to exist, but which I choose not to believe in, simply because it does not make me feel good to believe in them." I hope I'm not misrepresenting you here.

However, you're now trying to argue that there is evidence for the existence of God, and that there is more reason to believe that God is the explanation for the origin of the universe than the Big Bang. You'd be better off just sticking with the idea of God as a voluntarily held fantasy with no evidence to it back up. As always, when theists try to use science to support their fantasy, they just muck it up.

Praise be to maynard! (why did he get banned? Another sock puppet?)

So, some theists (I want to say all but discipline prevents me) believe in a deity without evidence because they want there to be one, but don't believe in other unevidenced things because they don't care to.

What follows? Any code of moral behaviour, promoted because of a wish to believe in an unevidenced entity, is also unevidenced. It has no authority. Therefore each item must be considered only for its merits as we know it, and the assertions of the believers must be discounted where they are drawn from the wish fulfilment source. To spell it out, such wish fulfilment is personal and where it matches will only coincidentally match the human consensus.