Careful imagining things, you will have nightmares.

The fact that there is no historical record of Jesus person, and the only historical record is thought to be a forgery written allegedly by Josephus. Most of the story of Jesus is written in stone, (penis excluded), hieroglyphs in Egypt. I am not sure which texts or side of a fence or ceiling you sit on. For extremism to pull its horns in, facts need to be taught as facts. Jesus never existed 2000 years ago. This has been pointed out above. I asked several questions on the previous post in response to other posts, ref do those who are in power today think or believe religion is a benefit to society.

I will expand does the queen of England when giving her Christmas speech actually believe Jesus existed.

Do the people in charge of world politics think religion is a benefit to general humanity? and that they serve a useful purpose in the world today by herding humanity through various goal posts.

I would ask responders to focus rather than putting disturbing pictures in the mind of people with imaginations who need to sleep that have penises

Andy

Handy andy wrote:Careful imagining things, you will have nightmares.

Or wet dreams ...

The fact that there is no historical record of Jesus person, and the only historical record is thought to be a forgery written allegedly by Josephus. Most of the story of Jesus is written in stone, (penis excluded), hieroglyphs in Egypt.

Jesus did not include a salad with seman dressing with the loaves of bread and fish he passed out.

from

According to The Contendings of Horus and Seth, Set is depicted as trying to prove his dominance by seducing Horus and then having sexual intercourse with him. However, Horus places his hand between his thighs and catches Set's semen, then subsequently throws it in the river so that he may not be said to have been inseminated by Set. Horus then deliberately spreads his own semen on some lettuce, which was Set's favorite food. After Set had eaten the lettuce, they went to the gods to try to settle the argument over the rule of Egypt. The gods first listened to Set's claim of dominance over Horus, and call his semen forth, but it answered from the river, invalidating his claim. Then, the gods listened to Horus' claim of having dominated Set, and call his semen forth, and it answered from inside Set.[

The Jesus story is not the Horus story - that's a myth.

I am not sure which texts or side of a fence or ceiling you sit on. For extremism to pull its horns in, facts need to be taught as facts.

Ok, let's start with the fact that myth or not, the story of Jesus ≠ to the story of Horus. And that's a fact.

Jesus never existed 2000 years ago.

Some say he didn't exist, most scholars say there is sufficient evidence to say he did. "Jesus never existed 2000 years ago" is not a fact - more like belief.

This has been pointed out above. I asked several questions on the previous post in response to other posts, ref do those who are in power today think or believe religion is a benefit to society.

Well normally I would say religion is obviously a benefit to society but things are so bonkers in my country at the moment that I'm thinking maybe you should have to be 21 before you can drink the cool kool-aid - maybe people need to give their brain a chance to develop some rational skills first.

I will expand does the queen of England when giving her Christmas speech actually believe Jesus existed.

I imagine so.

Do the people in charge of world politics think religion is a benefit to general humanity? and that they serve a useful purpose in the world today by herding humanity through various goal posts.

I would ask responders to focus rather than putting disturbing pictures in the mind of people with imaginations who need to sleep that have penises

Andy

You're the one who brought up the silly Jesus/Horus nonsense.

You are going to give me night mares, circumsition via a wide eyed machete swinging blind foreign looking person.

If this is the wrong forum, could the forum administrators please move the thread to the appropriate forum or delete it. I do not wish to offend any one accidently. I had thought I had posted on the correct forum, but being a newby I have already attracted a possible Troll and some one obsessed with a mythological penis amputation obsession, and it is concerning.

A possible troll among only long-term members, as those are without exception who has replied, as opposed to the one who signed up yesterday and apparently couldn't even spare the time to make sure the place contained the sort of people he was looking to talk to while labelling someone as a possible troll? Tell me more.

OK, I'll bite.

Handy andy wrote:Many people of all religions do not believe the religious stories to be fact

You'll find a major problem, is that some adherents of particular mythologies do treat the assertions contained therein as being true. As a corollary, this tendency to treat mythological assertions as fact, regardless of whatever observational data clearly demonstrates otherwise, has malign effects. See: opposition to scientific progress, ruthless censorship of dissenting views, etc.

Indeed, you will find that mythologies were invented, specifically to try and fill gaps in our knowledge, in eras when we did not have access to proper scientific methods of doing so. They were, in effect, our first attempts to provide descriptions of observational reality. Part of the problem, is that adherents of those mythologies rapidly moved from treating the assertions contained therein as descriptive, to treating them as prescriptive. In short, they started treating the assertions of their favourite mythologies, as purpotedly dictating how reality behaves, regardless of whether or not reality agreed with this.

Of course, the existence of people who don't treat many of the assertions of their favourite mythologies as fact, despite this being a core intention on the part of the authors of those mythologies, leads to the matter of why those people continue to adhere (or, perhaps more properly, claim adherence) to those mythologies, which would appear to be the question you are posing here.

Handy andy wrote:but consider religion to be a good thing in society and give some form of social cohesion, multi cultural diversity and choice etc, whether this be judaism, buddhism, islam, hinduism, rosicrutianism, christianity etc.

Once again, there are several problems here. All the observational evidence available, points to the Abrahamic religions in particular, being heavily steeped in a particularly unpleasant concept, namely, ruthless enforcement of conformity to doctrine. This is starkly at variance with your assertion above about "diversity and choice".

As for social cohesion, once again, the observational evidence points starkly to another unpleasant fact. Namely, that the moment one treats unsupported mythological assertions uncritically as fact, a natural and inevitable corollary of so doing, is to partition the human population into an in-group and an out-group, with the out-group invariably becoming subject to increasing hostility simply for being that out-group. I find the observational evidence for this to be again, wildly at variance with your assertion above about social cohesion, unless of course you are only interested in social cohesion within the in-group.

Handy andy wrote:Most people of all countries and religions do not believe extremism in religion is a good thing, except of course the extremists.

You will once again find, that this is in no small part, due to the manner in which the extremists have a habit of revealing the true underlying nature of the mythologies they claim adherence to. Though I am minded to note the interesting observational phenomenon, found right across the supernaturalist spectrum, of complete failure of consensus on a global scale amongst adherents of any particular chosen mythology. The repeatedly observed absence of conciseness within mythologies, the tendency for mythologies to be delivered using obscurantist prose, and a willingness to be conceptually slippery on the part of the authors thereof, provides a significant driving force behind this absence of consensus. As is the documented existence of internal contradictions within mythologies.

Handy andy wrote:An historical example of extremism in Catholicism would be the Spanish inquisition, in Islam today it would be the atrocities of ISIS.

One needs to be cautious here. A properly rigorous analysis would seek to determine if the requisite actions were merely ascribed to the mythologies in question, as opposed to genuinely arising therefrom. That absence of conceptual rigour endemic to mythologies, makes teasing the details out much harder. One has to delve deep to determine if the core assertions of the mythology really do exhort such actions explicitly. One has to be mindful of the manner in which the ruthless can take advantage of that slippery aspect of mythology, to claim that their own ruthless and brutal actions enjoy supposed "divine assent".

Handy andy wrote:60% of Islam is based on Christianity.

Do you have a scholarly citation to support this assertion? Only given what I have already noted about the obscurantist and internally contradictory nature of mythologies, attempts to produce precise figures of this sort are likely to be doomed in the absence of a large body of corroborating reseach.

Handy andy wrote:Christianity in the current form was created in 325AD by Emperor Constantine at the council of Nicea.

I think you'll find Christianity has undergone many morphological changes since then.

Handy andy wrote:The religion was compiled from the Hebrew religion forming the old testament, and the Ancient Egyptian religions dated circa 3500BC.

Whilst there is much reliably documented historical linkage between Christianity and Judaism, which is hardly susprising given that Christianity was effectively launched by individuals who were previously adherents of Judaism, the coupling to Ancient Egypt is rather less certain.

Handy andy wrote:There is no historical record of the existence of Jesus.

I think you will find a raft of scholars ready to contest this point vigorously. Even if only from the standpoint of stating that mythologies, and the assertions contained therein, do not arise in a vacuum. Whilst it may be difficult to point to a particular individual, and state categorically that this individual constituted the 'Jesus figure' for want of a better term, there is no doubt that individuals behaving in the requisite manner were far from rare. Indeed, the business of being a travelling prophet was practically a cottage industry amongst the people of the region at that time. That there existed human beings engaging in prophesy, and purporting to perform miracles with divine assistance, is not in doubt, and against this backdrop, a composite character could readily be assembled by anyone with an interest or passion for devising a new mythology. Those of us who accept the fundamental notion of mythologies not arising in a vacuum, are careful to distinguish between the events and persons that inspire a given mythological construct, and the resulting construct. It is that construct that many scholars refer to as properly constituting the "Jesus myth".

Handy andy wrote:The story is a direct copy from the older Egyptian religions, after the Roman conquest of Egypt, which were based on the mythical story of Horus and Isis-Mery (Isis beloved).

While it is tempting to suggest that the later of two similar stories borrowed heavily from the earlier, one needs to be somewhat careful before asserting such ties with certainty. It is true that cultural communication existed between the Jewish people and Egypt (not all of it, it has to be said, involving consent of said Jewish people, and furthermore taking place before Rome became involved in the region, or for that matter even existed as a political unit), but how much of that ended up being integrated into later mythological constructs, again requires some digging to confirm.

Handy andy wrote:The correlations between what is written in the new testament are too many to be anything other than a copy.

Similar statements have been issued regarding the Ark story in Genesis, and the Epic of Gilgamesh. In that case, it's possible that a distant but spectacular event led to similar but independent accounts appearing in different mythologies, taking their cue from the same source. But equally, it would be unusual if no borrowing at all had occurred in this instance, if the authors of the later mythology had any familiarity with the earlier mythology. The question, as always, being who dispensed what ideas to whom across the generations, and how much influence the recipients allowed those ideas to have on their thinking.

Handy andy wrote:Would it not be better for people of all religions to know the facts. Pope Pious X stated "the Jesus Myth has served us well".

I'm all in favour of knowing the facts. Hence all of what I've written above.

Handy andy wrote:Would this not allow a return to normality in religion, and return it to family focus rather focus on a mistaken belief system.

Last time I checked, practically every mythology in existence concerned itself with spectacular events, and an attempt to produce a history of the universe. I suspect your assertion about "normality" above is again at variance with this.

Handy andy wrote:For an extremist religion gives them a reason to be fanatical and kill. For moderates religion gives none of those things, it just gives some form of social cohesion and festivals.

Again I suggest you are treading on conceptually dangerous ground here. As an observational reason for alerting you to this, I cite as evidence the fact that it isn't just "extremists" who in the past took part in wars and fought in armies. I'm minded to recall the "God, King And Country" mantra that was popular here in the UK as World War I unfolded. Most of those who died in uniform in that war were not "extremists" or "fanatical killers".

Handy andy wrote:From the Christian tradition or Egyptian they are virtually the same

I suspect detailed checking of the requisite mythological assertions might say something different here ...

Handy andy wrote:St John "If you know the truth the truth will set you free"

Always contingent, of course, on what definition of "truth" is being disseminated by the orator ...

Handy andy wrote:From Luke Dont you know that god is in and around you and everything you see. For most people that is a pretty good definition of god

This isn't a "definition", it's an assertion, one requiring corroborating data. Do learn the difference.

Handy andy wrote:for a scientist it would be the god particle or ether, it is effectively the same thing.

Er, no. The reference to the Higgs Boson as "the God particle" is more humorous than anything else.

Handy andy wrote:Moderation and teaching the truth has to be the way forward.

I suspect what you mean here is "rigorous devotion to fidelity with the data".

Handy andy wrote:Does anyone agree, or do moderate views in this world not stand a chance.

Rigour takes diligent effort. Embracing fantasies takes far less effort. Which is one reason fantasies have a habit of persisting.

You are mistaken this could be the perfect forum, I couched my first post in a way I thought was controversial and would have provoked a gentle response from your average theist. However I had not realized this was totally an Atheist forum, on that you had me. My views are possibly Pantheist, sexed up Atheist, but have no allegiance to any forum.

The point made above ref religion in society being used as a method of ordering society full of numpties, politicians etc, Is a valid point and needs to be considered, when trying to address religion. Historically this was a fact as it is today.

I mentioned a few heads of state, possibly using this as means of ordering peoples so called belief systems, I see you are infatuated with Horus's Tadger, and the Egyptian religions. As you will be aware Donald Trumps declared religion is Rosicrutianism, you might be a little alarmed to know that, this is not exactly approved chritianity. Rosicrutionaism takes into account not only Metaphysics, but the occult, both the harmless and the unpleasant side of it.

The Freemasons of the Scottish right popular in America, revere Solomon and St John, Solomon like to sacrifice humans and few thousand animals etc. John loved them and cuddled them and forgave them if they didn't do as asked. freemasons if you want to amuse yourself by looking on some of the more psychotic born again websites are heavily involved in the darker side of the occult.

Putting the above to one side, and focusing on the Royal family, when the queen mother was lying in state, what were the princes doing guarding the body. Is that some Christian belief. It is not one I have seen before.

The Royal family believe in duty and that they are benefit to humanity, which is open to debate. They have for generations been freemasons. Freemasonry claims it is not a religion, but to become a freemason you MUST believe in a deity or god, and be considered to be a good sort. Many religious leaders are into freemasonry, I strongly suspect they don't believe in any of the BS stories either. I do however think they think religion of what ever kind is a benefit to society and can be usedto manipulate or direct the peasants as and when they want.

Freemasonry Egyptian right has been around for millennia, freemasonry Scottish right claims its origins 1300th century, after the Templars allegedly disappeared. They did not of course disappear, they fought at the battle of Killycrankie in the 15th century, many went to Portugal. Portugal being one of the countries in Europe that england hasn't been to war with.

The Final aim for freemasonry, is according to Albert Pike 33rd grand master order of the funny handshake club, Scottish rite. "To have a one world government under one God, with people who fear the afterlife" This is the last page of the most boring book you could possibly read written by a high ranking freemason, but if you can keep awake through it, it is quite enlightening.

Would anybody like to get above the waste of Horus and go for his Heart. I can not see the point of wars, killing foot soldiers that are playing follow my leader, why not focus on the leaders. Otherwise you are playing there game and fighting a battle that will out live you. With more foot soldiers being born and indoctrinated every day.

Perhaps if you can not reach the heart of Horus, may be the womb, of his imagined mother, who had sex with her dead husband and had a baby horus.

Excellent reply above thank you for biting, life is more interesting when a debate can get going. War King and country is another form of fanaticism. Follow my leader, if not you are shot for cowardice, "If you are not one of us you are against us" 2nd world war Gering.

The 60% citation was from a Moslem cleric, it was about the similarities between Islam and Christianity. Moslems do not believe in the crucifiction stuff, but still belief a lot of the other myths. I have nothing in writing desculpe. I have no intention of reading the quran either to verify what was said.

I am not trying to contest any ones beliefs what ever they are. I am just raising the question of the purpose of religion in society.

Fallible wrote:A possible troll among only long-term members, as those are without exception who has replied, as opposed to the one who signed up yesterday and apparently couldn't even spare the time to make sure the place contained the sort of people he was looking to talk to while labelling someone as a possible troll? Tell me more.

I had made a post on the Gravity thread, after a series of improbable gravitational theories. With a quick couple of ideas that could address the gravitational problem and quantum mechanics. And was accused of trolling, I felt it was the other way around, someone was trying to close down the idea without looking at it, or perhaps read only part, it is of no concern. I like a chuckle anyway.

The basic concept I put forward was space has substance and is relative, ie space moves with us, in our solar system. We do not move through space, it is a conceptual thing. Galaxies rotating in the same direction as most do, would naturally repel and accelerate away with out the need for dark matter. The concept of the ether used in conjunction with quantum mechanics, and einsteins theories I suspect would be a very interesting line of thought to unify all ideas in physics. Space is inside atoms etc, space is disturbed by the movement of atoms, and causes gravity. From quantum theory all matter is waves of one sort or another, Wave particle duality is a nonsense, all are distortions in space. etc



I bet you wish you hadn't asked huh

Andy

Handy andy wrote:
I had made a post on the Gravity thread, after a series of improbable gravitational theories. With a quick couple of ideas that could address the gravitational problem and quantum mechanics.

Why did you think you could address anything in cosmology? Maybe I'm missing what you designate as 'addressing'. Sure, andy, you can shout into a drainpipe. Do you have any idea how rare it is for true genius to go unappreciated? How would we measure that?

Handy andy wrote:[The concept of the ether used in conjunction with quantum mechanics, and einsteins theories I suspect would be a very interesting line of thought to unify all ideas in physics.

I'm sure you really meant to say that, Andy, but what does it have to do with the Purpose of religion in society? Troll elsewhere.

John Platko wrote:

... There is no historical record of the existence of Jesus. The story is a direct copy from the older Egyptian religions, after the Roman conquest of Egypt, which were based on the mythical story of Horus and Isis-Mery (Isis beloved). ...

I don't recall being taught:
from

Horus was born to the goddess Isis after she retrieved all the dismembered body parts of her murdered husband Osiris, except his penis, which was thrown into the Nile and eaten by a catfish,[7][8] or sometimes by a crab, and according to Plutarch's account used her magic powers to resurrect Osiris and fashion a golden phallus[9] to conceive her son (older Egyptian accounts have the penis of Osiris surviving).
Once Isis knew she was pregnant with Horus, she fled to the Nile Delta marshlands to hide from her brother Set, who jealously killed Osiris and who she knew would want to kill their son.[10] There Isis bore a divine son, Horus.

in Catechism.

Are you theist, atheist, deist, or what. I do not see that your penis fetish adds to the thread, unless it is part of religion being used to control people and why? sort of questions. Most people above seem to have got it. I would have thought it is reasonably obvious many stories are copied from religion to religion. A nice book on the subject called the Jesus Horus connection might help you, with my conjecture.

For the purposes of this thread whether Jesus Horus or any religious historical or mythological character existed is irrelevant, although it is historically interesting.

The thread is intended to be about the use of religion to control people, and to explore the reasons why this could be the case. I think it is also relevant to explore the beliefs of those who promote religion as being a good thing.

Kind Rgds

Andy

That's the purpose of the thread? Bizarre that you didn't say that in the title, subtitle or OP.

Fallible wrote:That's the purpose of the thread? Bizarre that you didn't say that in the title, subtitle or OP.

I did not state in the title, because I was very naughty and being misleading sorry. It is an interesting line of thought, which some have acknowledged.

Handy andy wrote:You are mistaken this could be the perfect forum, I couched my first post in a way I thought was controversial and would have provoked a gentle response from your average theist. However I had not realized this was totally an Atheist forum, on that you had me. My views are possibly Pantheist, sexed up Atheist, but have no allegiance to any forum.

The point made above ref religion in society being used as a method of ordering society full of numpties, politicians etc, Is a valid point and needs to be considered, when trying to address religion. Historically this was a fact as it is today.

I mentioned a few heads of state, possibly using this as means of ordering peoples so called belief systems, I see you are infatuated with Horus's Tadger, and the Egyptian religions. As you will be aware Donald Trumps declared religion is Rosicrutianism, you might be a little alarmed to know that, this is not exactly approved chritianity. Rosicrutionaism takes into account not only Metaphysics, but the occult, both the harmless and the unpleasant side of it.

The Freemasons of the Scottish right popular in America, revere Solomon and St John, Solomon like to sacrifice humans and few thousand animals etc. John loved them and cuddled them and forgave them if they didn't do as asked. freemasons if you want to amuse yourself by looking on some of the more psychotic born again websites are heavily involved in the darker side of the occult.

Putting the above to one side, and focusing on the Royal family, when the queen mother was lying in state, what were the princes doing guarding the body. Is that some Christian belief. It is not one I have seen before.

The Royal family believe in duty and that they are benefit to humanity, which is open to debate. They have for generations been freemasons. Freemasonry claims it is not a religion, but to become a freemason you MUST believe in a deity or god, and be considered to be a good sort. Many religious leaders are into freemasonry, I strongly suspect they don't believe in any of the BS stories either. I do however think they think religion of what ever kind is a benefit to society and can be usedto manipulate or direct the peasants as and when they want.

Freemasonry Egyptian right has been around for millennia, freemasonry Scottish right claims its origins 1300th century, after the Templars allegedly disappeared. They did not of course disappear, they fought at the battle of Killycrankie in the 15th century, many went to Portugal. Portugal being one of the countries in Europe that england hasn't been to war with.

The Final aim for freemasonry, is according to Albert Pike 33rd grand master order of the funny handshake club, Scottish rite. "To have a one world government under one God, with people who fear the afterlife" This is the last page of the most boring book you could possibly read written by a high ranking freemason, but if you can keep awake through it, it is quite enlightening.

Would anybody like to get above the waste of Horus and go for his Heart. I can not see the point of wars, killing foot soldiers that are playing follow my leader, why not focus on the leaders. Otherwise you are playing there game and fighting a battle that will out live you. With more foot soldiers being born and indoctrinated every day.

Perhaps if you can not reach the heart of Horus, may be the womb, of his imagined mother, who had sex with her dead husband and had a baby horus.

Excellent reply above thank you for biting, life is more interesting when a debate can get going. War King and country is another form of fanaticism. Follow my leader, if not you are shot for cowardice, "If you are not one of us you are against us" 2nd world war Gering.

The 60% citation was from a Moslem cleric, it was about the similarities between Islam and Christianity. Moslems do not believe in the crucifiction stuff, but still belief a lot of the other myths. I have nothing in writing desculpe. I have no intention of reading the quran either to verify what was said.

I am not trying to contest any ones beliefs what ever they are. I am just raising the question of the purpose of religion in society.

If you are going to address more than one person in a single post, please use the quote function. It does make life easier.

As for that "Moslem cleric", does he have a name?

Handy andy wrote:I would have thought it is reasonably obvious many stories are copied from religion to religion.

Why would you think that? We don't take anything for granted here, when it's less obvious than a = a. It might be a fact that stories are copied from religion to religion, but it is not fucking obvious.

People assert that something is obvious that is not obvious when they can't manage the argument.

Handy andy wrote:It is an interesting line of thought, which some have acknowledged.

Yes, but only some. Form an army and conquer the world, Andy.

Cito di Pense wrote:

Handy andy wrote:I would have thought it is reasonably obvious many stories are copied from religion to religion.

Why would you think that? We don't take anything for granted here, when it's less obvious than a = a. It might be a fact that stories are copied from religion to religion, but it is not fucking obvious.

People assert that something is obvious that is not obvious when they can't manage the argument.

Handy andy wrote:It is an interesting line of thought, which some have acknowledged.

Yes, but only some. Form an army and conquer the world, Andy.

Oh for f sake, Go read Jesus Horus connection, or google some stuff, there are more than enough websites available drawing direct comparisons, some of them by academics. Dawkins has written some stuff in the BS as well. Try Zeitgeist and the psychobobble sites as well.

To me it looks obvious, a lawyer may be able to obscure the facts but hey ho. Believe what you like.

As for conquering the world by killing millions, why not just go after the leaders. It is less painful, and a more focused target than the whole of humanity.

Calilasseia wrote:

Handy andy wrote:You are mistaken this could be the perfect forum, I couched my first post in a way I thought was controversial and would have provoked a gentle response from your average theist. However I had not realized this was totally an Atheist forum, on that you had me. My views are possibly Pantheist, sexed up Atheist, but have no allegiance to any forum.

The point made above ref religion in society being used as a method of ordering society full of numpties, politicians etc, Is a valid point and needs to be considered, when trying to address religion. Historically this was a fact as it is today.

I mentioned a few heads of state, possibly using this as means of ordering peoples so called belief systems, I see you are infatuated with Horus's Tadger, and the Egyptian religions. As you will be aware Donald Trumps declared religion is Rosicrutianism, you might be a little alarmed to know that, this is not exactly approved chritianity. Rosicrutionaism takes into account not only Metaphysics, but the occult, both the harmless and the unpleasant side of it.

The Freemasons of the Scottish right popular in America, revere Solomon and St John, Solomon like to sacrifice humans and few thousand animals etc. John loved them and cuddled them and forgave them if they didn't do as asked. freemasons if you want to amuse yourself by looking on some of the more psychotic born again websites are heavily involved in the darker side of the occult.

Putting the above to one side, and focusing on the Royal family, when the queen mother was lying in state, what were the princes doing guarding the body. Is that some Christian belief. It is not one I have seen before.

The Royal family believe in duty and that they are benefit to humanity, which is open to debate. They have for generations been freemasons. Freemasonry claims it is not a religion, but to become a freemason you MUST believe in a deity or god, and be considered to be a good sort. Many religious leaders are into freemasonry, I strongly suspect they don't believe in any of the BS stories either. I do however think they think religion of what ever kind is a benefit to society and can be usedto manipulate or direct the peasants as and when they want.

Freemasonry Egyptian right has been around for millennia, freemasonry Scottish right claims its origins 1300th century, after the Templars allegedly disappeared. They did not of course disappear, they fought at the battle of Killycrankie in the 15th century, many went to Portugal. Portugal being one of the countries in Europe that england hasn't been to war with.

The Final aim for freemasonry, is according to Albert Pike 33rd grand master order of the funny handshake club, Scottish rite. "To have a one world government under one God, with people who fear the afterlife" This is the last page of the most boring book you could possibly read written by a high ranking freemason, but if you can keep awake through it, it is quite enlightening.

Would anybody like to get above the waste of Horus and go for his Heart. I can not see the point of wars, killing foot soldiers that are playing follow my leader, why not focus on the leaders. Otherwise you are playing there game and fighting a battle that will out live you. With more foot soldiers being born and indoctrinated every day.

Perhaps if you can not reach the heart of Horus, may be the womb, of his imagined mother, who had sex with her dead husband and had a baby horus.

Excellent reply above thank you for biting, life is more interesting when a debate can get going. War King and country is another form of fanaticism. Follow my leader, if not you are shot for cowardice, "If you are not one of us you are against us" 2nd world war Gering.

The 60% citation was from a Moslem cleric, it was about the similarities between Islam and Christianity. Moslems do not believe in the crucifiction stuff, but still belief a lot of the other myths. I have nothing in writing desculpe. I have no intention of reading the quran either to verify what was said.

I am not trying to contest any ones beliefs what ever they are. I am just raising the question of the purpose of religion in society.

If you are going to address more than one person in a single post, please use the quote function. It does make life easier.

As for that "Moslem cleric", does he have a name?

Point noted, I will quote in the future.

If the clerics name comes to me and I find a link to him I will let you know. I am guessing but it may have started with Mohammed orMehmud. Dont hold your breath. I was looking into extremist islam websites at the time and thought this fella sounded quite moderate. They have websites that are promoting Islam. I wouldnt recomend looking, but it is always kind of fun to see what people will believe. With moderate Muslims I have found one can talk about most things openly except bacon sandwiches, this does not go down well at all.

Handy andy wrote:

Cito di Pense wrote:

Handy andy wrote:I would have thought it is reasonably obvious many stories are copied from religion to religion.

Why would you think that? We don't take anything for granted here, when it's less obvious than a = a. It might be a fact that stories are copied from religion to religion, but it is not fucking obvious.

People assert that something is obvious that is not obvious when they can't manage the argument.

Handy andy wrote:It is an interesting line of thought, which some have acknowledged.

Yes, but only some. Form an army and conquer the world, Andy.

Oh for f sake, Go read ... websites ... available drawing direct comparisons, some of them by academics.

Oh, yeah, Andy. Websites. Some by academics, at universities, expressing their personal opinions. When they want to enjoy the adulation of their peers, they publish in journals. But those bible scholars, Andy, otherwise known as literary critics? Pretending to be historians?

Handy andy wrote:

John Platko wrote:

... There is no historical record of the existence of Jesus. The story is a direct copy from the older Egyptian religions, after the Roman conquest of Egypt, which were based on the mythical story of Horus and Isis-Mery (Isis beloved). ...

I don't recall being taught:
from

Horus was born to the goddess Isis after she retrieved all the dismembered body parts of her murdered husband Osiris, except his penis, which was thrown into the Nile and eaten by a catfish,[7][8] or sometimes by a crab, and according to Plutarch's account used her magic powers to resurrect Osiris and fashion a golden phallus[9] to conceive her son (older Egyptian accounts have the penis of Osiris surviving).
Once Isis knew she was pregnant with Horus, she fled to the Nile Delta marshlands to hide from her brother Set, who jealously killed Osiris and who she knew would want to kill their son.[10] There Isis bore a divine son, Horus.

in Catechism.

Are you theist, atheist, deist, or what.

I am a theist - my flavor is Christian - Catholic Christian to be precise.

I do not see that your penis fetish adds to the thread, unless it is part of religion being used to control people and why? sort of questions. Most people above seem to have got it. I would have thought it is reasonably obvious many stories are copied from religion to religion. A nice book on the subject called the Jesus Horus connection might help you, with my conjecture.

I provided several quotes of descriptions of the story of Horus, it is obvious that the Bible story of Jesus is not the same. Why do you persist in falsely claiming that they are copied or even similar? I have no interest in your "alternate facts."

For the purposes of this thread whether Jesus Horus or any religious historical or mythological character existed is irrelevant, although it is historically interesting.

The thread is intended to be about the use of religion to control people, and to explore the reasons why this could be the case. I think it is also relevant to explore the beliefs of those who promote religion as being a good thing.


Kind Rgds

Andy

The title of the thread is: "The Purpose of Religion in Society" if you intended it to be "about the use of religion to control people" then it would be beneficial to state that in the title - and also beneficial would be to leave out non factual red herrings in the opening comment.

In any case, Jesus was not a semen dressed lettuce serving imagined god.

Cito di Pense wrote:

Handy andy wrote:

Cito di Pense wrote:

Handy andy wrote:I would have thought it is reasonably obvious many stories are copied from religion to religion.

Why would you think that? We don't take anything for granted here, when it's less obvious than a = a. It might be a fact that stories are copied from religion to religion, but it is not fucking obvious.

People assert that something is obvious that is not obvious when they can't manage the argument.

Handy andy wrote:It is an interesting line of thought, which some have acknowledged.

Yes, but only some. Form an army and conquer the world, Andy.

Oh for f sake, Go read ... websites ... available drawing direct comparisons, some of them by academics.

Oh, yeah, Andy. Websites. Some by academics, at universities, expressing their personal opinions. When they want to enjoy the adulation of their peers, they publish in journals. But those bible scholars, Andy, otherwise known as literary critics? Pretending to be historians?

I am not interested in what some ones religion is or isn't, people generally believe what they are told, or what they perceive their peers to believe. The purpose of the thread was to focus on the role of religion in society. It was generally agreed by most, that is a tool for control. Taking this a step further forward why is it promoted by governments and given tax breaks etc. This can only be because politicians think it is a good thing. A step further do you believe politicians when they tell you something, most people don't. Why would anyone believe them if they said they believe in a religion, unless they were trying to win votes. Tony Blair won an election on education education education rants, then allowed tax payers money to fund creationism. Creationism is not exactly a useful education, this was pointed out above by another contributor, Black adder I believe. Do the people in charge of politics and religion think a lower standard of education would make the masses easier to control.

Would any one like to speculate, I was informed above most people on the forum are Atheists, although I do have my doubts with some of the responses.

In order to avoid offense at the validity of a religious belief of a follower of religion can we focus on the leaders of religion and those in power who promote it.

Pope, Queenie, PM of UK whose name escapes me, Trump etc. Did anyone view the popes visit to America, and view all the masonic hand gestures by the politicians to the pope and vice versa, was it in the senate or congress my memory is going. Does that give you some idea of who might be in charge of world politics.

For the Jesuits the pope speaks for god on earth and over rules anything written in the bible etc. The Jesuits are a bad bunch historically, why would they change now.

Enjoy

Andy

What are the reasons you have doubts that most here are atheists?

I dunno about atheist, but I am most certainly Spartacus.