Black Hole Properties mentioned in the Quran

ADParker · **#21** by **ADParker** » Nov 26, 2013 5:12 am

Looks like a hit (well; a swing and a miss) and run. That's a shame. Hope he enjoyed his two minutes on the forum. :roll:

Imagination Theory · **#22** by **Imagination Theory** » Nov 26, 2013 5:30 am

Hi. What an interesting take on that. Welcome to the forum. :wave:

Imagination Theory · **#23** by **Imagination Theory** » Nov 26, 2013 5:33 am

ADParker wrote:Looks like a hit (well; a swing and a miss) and run. That's a shame. Hope he enjoyed his two minutes on the forum.

Yep, hope they enjoyed in, it leaves the rest of us unsatisfied.

Hey, did you guys watch Hell House or it's another name but it's about hell house.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell_house
Anyway, in the doc the guys are teaching people how to internet troll. :lol:

PCS · **#24** by **PCS** » Nov 27, 2013 12:22 am

campermon wrote:
Fenrir wrote:Truly no mere man of earth could write such perfect poetry.

Indeed.

It is the only descriptive account of black holes I have ever read that omits to mention gravity, nucleosynthesis, degenerate states etc, etc...

In this instance the Koran is truly inimitable.

Yeah, no mention of the singularity, event horizons, spaghettification, the slowing of time. He talks of stars but no mention of supernovas, hypernovas or gamma-ray bursts. Even if his translations are accurate, I can't see how all that crap has anything to do with black holes.

Livemike · **#25** by **Livemike** » Jan 14, 2014 3:01 pm

Scarlett wrote:I didn't even read it. I take it it's safe to assume it's bollocks?

Oh, and hi

Hell yes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... FavFQKFvZ8
http://www.skeptical-science.com/religi ... uran-nope/
Who doesn't love the google? 30 seconds it took to find a complete debunking, hell less. And the guy who I found debunking it also found his information in <30s.

campermon · **#26** by **campermon** » Jan 14, 2014 6:36 pm

Livemike wrote:
Scarlett wrote:I didn't even read it. I take it it's safe to assume it's bollocks?

Oh, and hi

Hell yes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... FavFQKFvZ8
http://www.skeptical-science.com/religi ... uran-nope/
Who doesn't love the google? 30 seconds it took to find a complete debunking, hell less. And the guy who I found debunking it also found his information in <30s.

Welcome to the forum Michael! :beer:

If you haven't seen it already, you may want to take a look at our New Members' Welcome Pack which will give you some helpful resources such as how to modify your membership display settings, how to navigate around the forum, point you to some threads which address commonly asked questions from newbies, and gives you some handy links to other sites which will help you develop your skepticism. It also contains our forum rules, which we ask that you abide by at all times.

If you're new to this type of phpBB software on forums, you might like to take a look at our Handy Hints for Posting On The Forum, which will show you how to change your text, insert images & youtube clips, and do some other cool stuff.

And finally, as a house warming present for you, here's a few laughs for your entertainment.

:beer:

laklak · **#27** by **laklak** » Jan 14, 2014 8:10 pm

PCS wrote:
Yeah, no mention of the singularity, event horizons, spaghettification, the slowing of time.

james1v · **#28** by **james1v** » Jan 15, 2014 5:25 pm

Oeditor · **#29** by **Oeditor** » Jan 21, 2014 1:37 pm

Something worth considering is the fact that not only do these people read into the Koran something that isn't there, when they provide a translation of this "miraculous evidence" they sometimes WRITE something into the Koran that isn't there. Look at this example from a bunch of apologists:
On their web site, the Qur'an Project say, regarding black holes,

"So verily, I swear by the stars that recede (i.e. disappear during the day and appear during the night). And by the (cleaning) stars that move swiftly and hide themselves" (I)

"cleaning" being used to claim that the Koran is referring to black holes sweeping up anything that goes near them. Indeed, some making the same claim say (sweeping) instead.
http://www.quranproject.org/STARS-THAT-HIDE-AND-MOVE-SWIFTLY-446-d
Looking at e.g. the Yusuf Ali translation of the same verses ( 81:15-16) we find

15. So verily I call To witness the Planets—That recede
16. Go straight, or hide

http://www.alquran-english.com/81-at-takwir/
Now these people publish their own edition of the Koran and it can be downloaded. In it it says

15. So I swear by the retreating stars -
16. Those that run [their courses] and disappear [i.e., set]

I can only find references to sweeping or cleaning in articles claiming that the Koran "miraculously predicted" black holes.
So the cleaning or sweeping business would seem to be a prime example of deliberately interfering with their own immutable holy book.

termina · **#30** by **termina** » Jan 22, 2014 9:25 pm

Well, the idea of "sweeping/cleaning" isn't really something they pulled out of thin air. "hide" or "disappear" is the translation of an active participle from the verb, KaNaSa, which basically means to hide, to go back to one's abode, hiding-place or to sweep.
http://www.tyndalearchive.com/tabs/lane/

Of course, the meaning is to be chosen according to the context. Given that the verse can easily be interpreted as refering to a mundane phenomenon (planets/stars moving and hiding at daytime), probably only the first two meanings are intended.

Of course, one can interpret this verb as to sweep and say "Gee! looks like the Quran predicted black holes!" but the thing is that this meaning is considered as intended only because it conforms to scientific discoveries. If it were at odds with the latter, anyone using the "sweeping" meaning to disprove the Quran would probably be blamed for cherry-picking (which is, ironically, the very fault those miracle-seekers are guilty of).

Oeditor · **#31** by **Oeditor** » Jan 22, 2014 10:57 pm

So rather than fudging the content of their immutable infallible book, they're demonstrating that it is not, after all, perfectly clear. That it is, in fact, as clear as fudge. Same difference. Strange that none going before them, until black holes became an accepted part of cosmology, interpreted the infallibly clear verse in such a manner.
Oh, and all this business about how Arabic words mean umpteen different things, depending on what the reader is supposed to accept, gets a bit wearying. Must be quite a business, doing an Arabic crossword puzzle! :evilgrin:

Onyx8 · **#32** by **Onyx8** » Jan 23, 2014 1:13 am

Nah, it's easy: just put whatever you like in the spaces and rationalise it later when someone complains.

termina · **#33** by **termina** » Jan 23, 2014 9:02 am

So rather than fudging the content of their immutable infallible book, they're demonstrating that it is not, after all, perfectly clear. That it is, in fact, as clear as fudge. Same difference. Strange that none going before them, until black holes became an accepted part of cosmology, interpreted the infallibly clear verse in such a manner.

That indeed questions the plausibility of their interpretation, but they usually concoct excuses like "people back then didn't know about black holes, so no wonder they didn't understand this verse as we do, the latter was only meant for our epoch.",
which can be useful to justify any vague prediction.

Oh, and all this business about how Arabic words mean umpteen different things, depending on what the reader is supposed to accept, gets a bit wearying.

But this multitude of meaning is pivotal to their apologetics.

As an example, I chatted with a muslim promoting the so-called scientitic predictions in the Quran. When he interpreted the verse (57:25)"[...]And We sent down iron wherein is might and benefits for the people[...]" as refering to meteoric iron, i pointed out that the verb sent down here may be metaphorical (showing some examples in other verses, and exegetes' opinions). So I told him he can't tell whether his literal meaning is intended or not beforehand. Hold on to your hat, he basically answered that one should choose the meaning that suits best the current knowledge, which implies that he'd cowardly switch to the metaphorical interpretation if iron were shown not to come from space.
Talk about wanting to have it both ways!

This speaks volume about the "science-in-the-Quran" apologetics. Its promoters are fond of using science to prove the Quran but reject the possibility that the former disproves the latter, claiming that only one's interpretation of the Quran is wrong, not the Quran itself.

majmal · **#34** by **majmal** » Jan 24, 2014 5:19 pm

Also visit http://quranic-wisdom.cu.cc

SafeAsMilk · **#35** by **SafeAsMilk** » Jan 24, 2014 5:37 pm

Is this for class points or something? Maybe a Muslim-bot?

Blackadder · **#36** by **Blackadder** » Jan 24, 2014 5:44 pm

majmal wrote:Also visit http://quranic-wisdom.cu.cc

Without any preamble, comment or conclusion?

That is spamming.

Blackadder · **#37** by **Blackadder** » Jan 24, 2014 5:46 pm

SafeAsMilk wrote::lol: Is this for class points or something? Maybe a Muslim-bot?

Robots were predicted in the Quran. Hold on a minute, I'm just making shit looking it up.

Fallible · **#38** by **Fallible** » Jan 24, 2014 5:48 pm

That site is hilarious.

Shrunk · **#39** by **Shrunk** » Jan 24, 2014 5:52 pm

majmal wrote:Also visit http://quranic-wisdom.cu.cc

Why, thanks! I found this piece of wisdom (sic) particularly interesting:

Masturbation is a sin because it goes against how Allah created human beings. It has negative effects on a person and also hinders their ability to talk to other people. That is the punishment from Allah for those that masturbate is that they are no longer able to talk to other people due to this sin affecting their mind. Especially if masturbation is accompanied with watching pornography.

I'll just note, without further comment majmal, that you seem to be having difficulty talking with the other members of this board. :whistle:

One question: Couldn't it be considered "masturbation" to use another object, besides your own hand, to stimulate your penis? Say, the thighs of a nine-year-old girl?

Fallible · **#40** by **Fallible** » Jan 24, 2014 5:55 pm

And off he goes again. Bye majmal, looking forward to the next 2 minute visit.

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