With the name of God the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful


The Quran swears by destruction of stars and the subsequent formation of black holes to prove it is sent by God. (In 53:1 An oath by the destruction of stars is taken, In 56:75-76 An oath by the enormity of this event is taken, In 81:15-18 Formation of black holes which form after the destruction of giant stars and the fact that matter and light cannot escape is mentioned) - Below are the specific ayaat:


53:1: By the star when it Hawa (destructs, blows up)

53:2: Has neither Dalla (gone astray), Your Companion (Muhammad Blessings and Peace of God be upon him) nor Ghawa (nor is being misled)

53:3: Nor does he speak from Hawa (emotion)

53:4: It is not but a Wahi (revelation, inspiration) Yuha (revealed, inspired)



56:75: Fa (So) La (No), uqsimu (I swear, I take an oath) by the mawaq'i (occurrences, events) of the Nujuum (stars)

56:76: And indeed, it is surely an oath - if you knew - Azeem (tremendous, A supernova is a tremendous event during which more energy may be released than the Sun will in its entire life span)

56:77: That (this) is indeed a recital Kareem (honorable, the Qur'an in Arabic).

56:78: In a Book kept Maknoon (hidden).

56:79: Which (that Book with God) none can touch but the Mutaharoon (purified, the angels, the book in which is pre-written everything that will occur)

56:80: (It is) a tanzeel (sending down of revelation) from the Lord of the Alameen (human beings and Jinn (another creation given the gift of speech))

56:81: Then is it to this statement that you are Mudhinoon (indifferent)

56:82: And make (the thanks) for your provision that you Tukaziboon (lie about the Provider)

56:83: Then why (do you) not, when (death) reaches the Hulqoom (throat)

56:84: And you are at that time Tanzuroon (looking on)

56:85: And we (angels) are nearer to him than you, but you do not Tubsiroon (see)

56:86: Then why (do you) not, if you are not to be Madineen (recompensed, punished or rewarded)

56:87: Bring it (the soul) back, if you are Sadiqeen (truthful?)

56:88: If (the deceased) was of the Muqarabeen (close to God, from the foremost in doing good works)

56:89: Then (for him is) rauh and rayhan and a garden of Naeem (pleasure)

56:90: And if he was of the Ashab Al-Yameen (people of the right)

56:91: Then salam (safety from all bad things, paradise as well) for you, from the Ashab Al-Yameen.

56:92: But if he was from the Mukazibeen (liars and who were) Daaleen (astray, e.g. people with lots of money who didn't care about the starving)

56:93: Then (for him is) accommodation of Hameem (intensely hot scalding water)

56:94: And burning in Jaheem (intense Hellfire)

56:95: Verily, this! This is Haq-ul-Yaqeen (the Truth with certainty)

56:96: Fa sabbih (So declare free from faults) the name of your Lord, Al-Azeem (Tremendous)



81:15: Fa (So) La (No), uqsimu (I swear, I take an oath) by Khunnas (drawn together objects) (When a massive star destructs, it subsequently draws together i.e. 10 times the mass of the sun is drawn to within a 30 km diameter in the stellar category of black holes)

81:16: Those that run (their courses) and Kunnas (sweep whatever is in their path, matter cannot escape)

81:17: And the night as it us'us (the darkness of a black hole is different than regular darkness)

81:18: And the light as it Tanaffus (As it gets pulled in, even light cannot escape)

81:19: Verily, this is the Word (this Qur'an brought by) a messenger Kareem (honourable, Jibrael (Gabriel), from God to the last human messenger)

81:20: (Who is) possessed of power and with the Owner of the Arsh (uppermost construction in heaven), Makeen (secure in position),

81:21: Obeyed there (in the heavens) and Ameen (trustworthy)

81:22: And your companion is not (at all) Majnoon (mad)

81:23: And he has already seen him (Gabriel) in the horizon Mubeen (clear)

81:24: And he (the last messenger) is not with the unseen Daneen (a with-holder, concealer of knowledge)

81:25: And it (the Qur'an) is not the word of Satan, Rajeem (expelled from the heavens).

81:26: So where are you Tazhaboon (going?)

81:27: It (the Quran) is not except a remembrance for the Alameen

81:28: For whoever wills among you that (he or she) Yastaqeem (stay straight, do what is right and avoid straying from what is right)

81:29: And you will not, except (it be) that Allah wills - Lord of the Alameen.


You may verify the words above using an arabic-english lexicon visit: http://tyndalearchive.com/tabs/lane/ or http://www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm or corpus.quran.com

What a load of bollocks.

Stop mangling your holy book. It was written by uneducated goat herders who knew jack about science.

And before you start on the Koran describing the developing fetus, my advice is don't. You won't win.

Also,

Welcome to the forum!

Be sure to read the FUA and enjoy!

[/thread]

Truly no mere man of earth could write such perfect poetry.

Fenrir wrote:Truly no mere man of earth could write such perfect poetry.

Indeed.

It is the only descriptive account of black holes I have ever read that omits to mention gravity, nucleosynthesis, degenerate states etc, etc...

In this instance the Koran is truly inimitable.

I didn't even read it. I take it it's safe to assume it's bollocks?

Oh, and hi

Scarlett wrote:I didn't even read it. I take it it's safe to assume it's bollocks?

Oh, and hi

I think I scared them away (or they're a drive by)...

I neglected to add; @majmal - you are truly welcome here Why not peruse the science forums and learn why the scientific claims of the koran are bogus.

A good candidate for today's "If you believe that, you'll believe anything" prize.

I particularly like this bit

....Fa (So) La (No),...

It made me think of Doh a Deer, I love the Sound of Music

Did The Sound of Music have a black hole?

Scarlett wrote:I particularly like this bit

....Fa (So) La (No),...

It made me think of Doh a Deer, I love the Sound of Music

Did The Sound of Music have a black hole?

Only in the rated 18 version...

Scarlett wrote:I particularly like this bit

....Fa (So) La (No),...

It made me think of Doh a Deer, I love the Sound of Music

Did The Sound of Music have a black hole?

Have you not seen Juli Andrews throat?

I'll get my coat...

Two words;
Hawking Radiation

RS

Wasn't Mohammed a child molester?

Yes, CB, he was.

RS

The stars are missiles to ward off devils.

Sura 67:5 "And We have certainly beautified the nearest heaven with stars and have made [from] them what is thrown at the devils and have prepared for them the punishment of the Blaze."

Tell me why I should take the Koran seriously again?

Glad he posted this in 'Islam' rather than poluting the science threads.

(Does the FUA apply if your first post makes you out to be a ball-bag?)

theropod wrote:Yes, CB, he was.

RS

I thought so. Though in his defence, apparently he only rubbed himself up against her legs, presumably coming over her thighs, rather than engaging in penetrative sex, which didn't happen until she was about nine or ten. So I suppose that if the quran correctly mentions the properties of black holes, it must be at least as reliable with regards to Mohammed's paedophilia.

It's the Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy once more. Painting apologetic bull's eyes around the scientific findings after the scientists did all the heavy lifting.

If this book of myths is so fucking wonderful in this respect, why are Islamic countries all scientifically backward (with the exception of whatever it takes to build bombs)? If this book of myths genuinely was a fountain of scientific wisdom, the Large Hadron Collider would have been built in Riyadh, not Geneva.

Welcome to the forum majmal.

As for your claim that those bits pulled from the Quran are talking about the properties of black holes; well I checked out a few more translations (as I don't speak Arabic), and your claims look like complete nonsense. You plucked a few verses that start with things like "By the star when it descends", "Nay , I swear by the places of the stars", "So I swear by the retreating stars" and just pretend that it implies something about black holes. Weak.

Either you are just wrong (by far the most likely answer), or the author of those texts is simply terrible at conveying information.


Here's a little example of the stretches you felt the need to make:

You wrote:
"81:18: And the light as it Tanaffus (As it gets pulled in, even light cannot escape)" - implying this line refers to black holes pulling even light in.
Online translations however see it differently:
"And by the dawn when it breathes" yabiladi.com
"And the breath of morning" quran.com
"and the dawn when it breathed up" englishtafsir.com
"and the morn as it breathes." islamicstudies.info
That last one includes details about what (they think) the line means:
"13. That for which the oath has been sworn, has been stated in the following verses. The oath means: Muhammad (peace be upon him) has not seen a vision in darkness, but when the stars had disappeared, the night had departed and the bright morning had appeared, he had seen the Angel of God in the open sky. Therefore, what he tells you is based on his own personal observation and on the experience that he had in full senses in the full light of day."
Nothing at all about black holes or light being unable to escape, or anything remotely like that.

Basically you (and other apologists who so often try this sort of thing) are desperately distorting your own (supposedly) holy texts to pretend that it says things is simply does not say. You should be ashamed!

Majmal: There's a list of (Christian fundamentalist) Young Earth creationist claims that have been so comprehensibly rubbished that apologists are advised not to use them any more. Time that Muslims drew one up too, by the look of it.

Trying to justify your holy book scientifically through stretches in interpretation is a serious sign of self doubt. Allah would be very displeased with you.

Just shut your mind, pray more and believe!